Olive Garden

[Fat Guy]

People aren't willing to do the work to find these places, but if they are told about them, they'll go.

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Every foodie wants to believe that, but it's just not true. I've met plenty of folks who, even after being spoon fed the superior alternatives, just haven't cared enough to depart from their previous routines. To most people, the quality of what they eat simply is not important. I repeat, they assign it zero or close to zero importance. Deal with it.

[Megan Blocker]

People aren't willing to do the work to find these places, but if they are told about them, they'll go.

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Every foodie wants to believe that, but it's just not true. I've met plenty of folks who, even after being spoon fed the superior alternatives, just haven't cared enough to depart from their previous routines. To most people, the quality of what they eat simply is not important. I repeat, they assign it zero or close to zero importance. Deal with it.

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Yup. One of my closest work friends is like that. He likes good food, and can even recognize the difference between what's good and what's crap, but he would never bother to go out of his way to find it, let alone make it a primary consideration.

He's lived in New York for four years, London and Amsterdam before that, Paris before that, and Sydney before that. Not exactly bad food spots. But still, doesn't care.

[Daniel]

Like me.. I dont care where I eat, it just so happens I end up at these different places..

[onehsancare]

When I hear of a friend travelling, even on business, my first question is, "Where are you going to eat?" I love to research the different options, and then when I'm the traveller, I'm not hit with the 7:30 pm gotta-get-some-fuel blues--I have a reservation at x, which was recommended to me by my friends on eGullet.

But food is just not that important to most people. We see people at OG with wasted money, calories, and opportunity--they see themselves as getting a night out, not having to cook, eating ethnic (!). I'm just grateful they're not at x, making the line go out the door!

[Fat Guy]

Argh well let's not confuse fast food with these casual chains. Fast food works anywhere. But I only see Olive Gardens, Red Lobsters, Fridays, Applebees, etc., in areas trafficked by out-of-towners, because I think they feel safe eating there.

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You could make exactly the same statement about restaurant locations with respect to every New York Time four-star and Michelin three-star restaurant in New York City. They're all also in locations heavily trafficked by tourists: the Time Warner Center, Central Park South, Columbus Circle, the Equitable Center, near Bloomingdale's, etc.

The statement is not necessarily accurate, however, with respect to the chains. Looking at your list of examples, TGI Friday's is a good place to start. Not only does TGI Friday's operate ten restaurants in Manhattan, it also originated here. It's as New York as you can get: the first Friday's was at 63rd and First. In addition to its Times Square location, the Olive Garden has a location at 22nd and Sixth. Red Lobster has a location in Elmhurst. Applebee's is in Battery Park, Rego Park, Flatbush, Riverdale and sevearal other locations.

[joiei]

Incidentally, Providence and Nashville may be nice, but there's nothing like Paris.  (Unless you meant Paris, Texas.  )

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Having been to Paris, Texas I would venture to guess that Providence and Nashville have it all over the jewel of Northeast Texas. Never been to P.F. so I can't make that comparison.. I still haven't found any decent bbq there. Sad. Truly sad. I did find the Texas version of the Effiel Tower with the red cowboy hat jauntily perched atop.

Back to the Evil Garden and there is one in Paris, Tx, I think there are probably more NY locals dining there than a foodie might be able to believe. All those dollars they rake in do not come from tourists.

[rich]

Argh well let's not confuse fast food with these casual chains. Fast food works anywhere. But I only see Olive Gardens, Red Lobsters, Fridays, Applebees, etc., in areas trafficked by out-of-towners, because I think they feel safe eating there.

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You could make exactly the same statement about restaurant locations with respect to every New York Time four-star and Michelin three-star restaurant in New York City. They're all also in locations heavily trafficked by tourists: the Time Warner Center, Central Park South, Columbus Circle, the Equitable Center, near Bloomingdale's, etc.

The statement is not necessarily accurate, however, with respect to the chains. Looking at your list of examples, TGI Friday's is a good place to start. Not only does TGI Friday's operate ten restaurants in Manhattan, it also originated here. It's as New York as you can get: the first Friday's was at 63rd and First. In addition to its Times Square location, the Olive Garden has a location at 22nd and Sixth. Red Lobster has a location in Elmhurst. Applebee's is in Battery Park, Rego Park, Flatbush, Riverdale and sevearal other locations.

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It seems most of the four-stars use Central Park as their backdrop with the exception of Daniel and LB - even those two are not far away. I don't know who is near Bloomie's.

But the real food in NYC is downtown - just to keep the tourists away.

The chains pick their spots where family-oriented tourists and natives might gather - that's their main marketing strategy and it works. Other spots are selected based of neighborhood demographics - specifically middle to upper middle family neighborhoods and shopping malls.

I think the 22nd and 6th OG is the most interesting choice - my guess is because that area is fast becoming a shopper's mecca and there's no nearby chain competition.

[I_call_the_duck]

There's one thing that I don't think has been mentioned...advertising. OG has what the majority of restaurants don't have--a massive advertising budget. They can offer coupons for 2-for-1 entrees in the Sunday circular. They must have a fleet of food stylists that make their food look pretty good. Damn, even McDonald's makes their burgers look good in their ads. And we all know, what you really get ain't what is seen on those commercials.

[Megan Blocker]

I don't know who is near Bloomie's...

I think the 22nd and 6th OG is the most interesting choice - my guess is because that area is fast becoming a shopper's mecca and there's no nearby chain competition.

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Daniel is sort of near Bloomie's - only six blocks (five blocks north, one block west)...

As for the 23rd Street location...yes, I think you're right - that area is now riddled with big chain stores, so these are the restaurants to match. Isn't Outback also in that neighborhood?

[rich]

I don't know who is near Bloomie's...

I think the 22nd and 6th OG is the most interesting choice - my guess is because that area is fast becoming a shopper's mecca and there's no nearby chain competition.

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Daniel is sort of near Bloomie's - only six blocks (five blocks north, one block west)...

As for the 23rd Street location...yes, I think you're right - that area is now riddled with big chain stores, so these are the restaurants to match. Isn't Outback also in that neighborhood?

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What's an Outback? Are you referring to that beef chain? Don't tell me they're in Manhattan too? Aren't there enough bad steak houses in Manhattan? I see the possibilities for another thread.

Edited March 29, 2006 by rich (log)

[juuceman]

There's an Olive Garden on 23rd St.?  Go know.

OK, so I take it back about Outback.

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sorry, the Olive Garden is on 22nd and 6th, in the same building (The Caroline) that Outback, Cosi, and Best Buy occupy.

[Fat Guy]

But the real food in NYC is downtown - just to keep the tourists away.

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Yeah, tourists never eat at Nobu. They never shop in SoHo. They never go to the Tenement Museum. I never see any tourists at the restaurants and attractions downtown. Likewise, I never see any New Yorkers in Midtown.

[rich]

But the real food in NYC is downtown - just to keep the tourists away.

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Yeah, tourists never eat at Nobu. They never shop in SoHo. They never go to the Tenement Museum. I never see any tourists at the restaurants and attractions downtown. Likewise, I never see any New Yorkers in Midtown.

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Steve, my comment was "family-oriented" tourists in the following paragraph for the chains. And those families rarely go the Nobu or the Tenement Museum - most kids just wouldn't be interested.

I was being sarcastic with "keep tourists away" part.

[ulterior epicure]

Just curious, are the prices at the OG in Times Square higher than others elsewhere? I've noticed that a few chains in NYC charge more than their outlets elsehwere. (I apologize if this has been covered upthread).

u.e.

[Fat Guy]

There are family-oriented tourist attractions all over New York City. There absolutely are plenty of kids at the Tenement Museum. There are kids at the South Street Seaport, shopping in the Village, visiting Chinatown and Little Italy, walking on the Brooklyn Bridge, taking the Staten Island Ferry....

[juuceman]

As a former consultant who used to travel to some of the highest traffic places you can imagine (Washington Courthouse, OH; Cayce, SC; Tri Cities, TN; Jefferson City, MO (don't let the fact it's the capital fool you into thinking it's a real place) - I feel like I can say that no matter where you travel, there's almost always something worth finding.  .

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you (and me) are very special that way. but most of the world isn't. otherwise egullet and chowhound would have 2 billion members, rather than 10's of thousands. it seems to go without saying really.

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when i'm 500 miles from home, in the absolute middle of nowhere, and I see a Macaroni Grill, a Friday's, a Ruby Tuesday's or a Pizzeria Uno, I'm pretty happy.. I don't eat at these places when I'm home, or when I've had a chance to research the locale, or when someone recommends something, but for the most part these places will be as good or better than the hotel restaurant and they are consistent.. same thing when traveling and hopping off the highway to sit down for an hour or so and break up a long ride.. i'm not necessarily looking for innovative cooking when doing so, i'm looking to eat and be somewhat happy with it..

[juuceman]

I don't know who is near Bloomie's...

I think the 22nd and 6th OG is the most interesting choice - my guess is because that area is fast becoming a shopper's mecca and there's no nearby chain competition.

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Daniel is sort of near Bloomie's - only six blocks (five blocks north, one block west)...

As for the 23rd Street location...yes, I think you're right - that area is now riddled with big chain stores, so these are the restaurants to match. Isn't Outback also in that neighborhood?

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Olive Garden, Outback, Cosi, a smoothie shop, and Best Buy are all within the same building, Home Depot is just down the block.

[phaelon56]

Moderator's Note:

Folks - let's keep this on topic. We've had to prune the thread to remove a large number of posts that are straying into a lot of superfluous discussion about why we talk about what we talk about, as opposed to the actual topic.

The topic remains the Olive Garden in Times Square - other locations in Manhattan are also a reasonable area of discussion.

If it's a general discussion of chain restaurants we have a great thread to join in on right here

Chain Restaurants: The Thread

For Outback-centric discussion we have also just the place

Outback Steakhouse; this traveler's friend

Thanks!

[ulterior epicure]

Just curious, are the prices at the OG in Times Square higher than others elsewhere?  I've noticed that a few chains in NYC charge more than their outlets elsehwere.  (I apologize if this has been covered upthread).

u.e.

I'll ask again... anyone?

u.e.

[Fat Guy]

Prices vary by region. You can enter your Zip code on olivegarden.com and it will give you local prices. I compared these items, randomly selected, between New York, NY and Raleigh, NC:

New York:

Hot Artichoke-Spinach Dip

A blend of artichokes, spinach and cream cheese. Served with Tuscan bread.

8.95

Raleigh:

Hot Artichoke-Spinach Dip

A blend of artichokes, spinach and cream cheese. Served with Tuscan bread.

6.25

New York:

Three Meat Ravioli

Ravioli filled with beef, Italian sausage and chicken topped with sage-butter and basil-marinara sauces, drizzled with fresh pesto.

16.25

Raleigh:

Three Meat Ravioli

Ravioli filled with beef, Italian sausage and chicken topped with sage-butter and basil-marinara sauces, drizzled with fresh pesto.

11.25

New York:

Shrimp and Crab Ravioli

Shrimp and crab-filled ravioli in a creamy seafood sauce, topped with shrimp and sun-dried tomatoes.

17.50

Raleigh:

Shrimp and Crab Ravioli

Shrimp and crab-filled ravioli in a creamy seafood sauce, topped with shrimp and sun-dried tomatoes.

12.95

[ulterior epicure]

Thanks Steven.

Doh! Of course - everything is available on the web these days! Wow - that's much more of a difference than I would have imagined - that's averaging around $5 upcharge per plate!

u.e.

[phaelon56]

Wow. That's a prettty steep upcharge on some items. overhead costs in the types of high trafffic locations where chains are likely to be located in NYC is unquestionably a major factor.

But that kind of pricing makes the value proposition for the casual diner, even a person who finds OG's food to be acceptable, to be less than compelling.

I can think of at least a half dozen independent places in Syracuse that serve ravioli superior to OG in the $11 - $12 range - exactly what OG charges for that item here.

But I can think of far more independent places than that in NYC where the same item is available for $12 - $13 - much less than the Manhattan OG. And the quality at these independents is superior - I know because I've eaten both on repeat occasions. It doesn't take a golden or highly acute palate to detect a difference.

[Daniel]

I went to Olive Garden not expecting much.. I went thinking the food was going to be inexpensive, overly processed, highly caloric garbage more or less.. I must say, I was correct in most of my thoughts.. Especially in high caloric content.. I really dont believe I have ever ate a meal that was worse for me.. I was wrong concerning the price of the resaurant.. It wasnt only not cheap, but it was actually pricey.. Almost twice the price of my local and really good neighborhood restaurant in New York..

I see how Fatguy showed that prices vary at the Olive Garden from location to location.. And obviously, this one, in the Heart Of Times Square, is going to be one of the higher priced locations.. Located at 2 Times Square in a gorgeous three story place, I was really impressed with the inside.. Dark woods, nice bars, comfortable booths and tables... It really was a pretty looking restaurant.. The upstairs held 250 people and at 10 o'clock at night.. The place was packed.. There was actually a 15 minute wait to be seated upstairs..

The location as I said is right in the middle of it all.. It on a three way corner, directly next to the TKS booth and all the sights of TSQ..

Again.. I was really impressed with the space.. Nicer then a lot of places.. I was really rethinking my opinion of the place at this point.. It was roomy, comfortable, the hostess had a great personality and made us feel welcome.. This is all before the food mind you..

Our waiter comes to the table, very warm, friendly and a lot of fun.. We were a little tipsy after coming from a Comedy Club down the street.. No one in our party of three knew what to expect here, so we were happy to learn they have bars at Olive Gardens..

After our drinks came and we looked at the menu for a little bit, we were presented with our first taste of the OGizzal.. There famous bread sticks.. These things are little sticks of diabetes.. Super starchy, microwaved? little tubes of breadness.. They had that abnormally heated feel to them that can only be reached in the microwave.. It was cool in some places and really hot in others. These suckers were doused in some super salty garlic salt mixture. The salt level in these little bastards is truly impressive.. I only had a few bites of one breadstick before I felt myself getting sick..

Next up is the famous salad.. This was truly not bad.. I dont think I have had bottled salad dressing in a long time.. And thats exactly what this was.. It was a processed mixture of salad dressing.. The lettuce was fresh and crunchy, there were olives, fresh tomatoes, the one think I hated was the super processed, fake oregano flavored croutons that I could not eat.. Besides that it was good.. Sure i could tell how unhealthy and bad the dressing was for you, but in terms of taste, it wasnt too bad.. But you can learn two things from the salad.. First, its a bad sign if the salad at a place is unhealthy, and Second, its a bad sign in the salad is one of the better menu options on a menu..

Here is our funny waiter mugging for the camera..

Salad: This was the highest percentage of positivity our dinner reached.. We were 50/50 happy with our selections...

Appetizers:

Smoke Mozzarella Fonduta for $8.95.. This is OG'S take on Queso Fundito.. Its a soupy mixture of low grade mozzarella, provolone, parmesan, romano cheese and tomatoes. Served with bread.

Can someone please tell me how those circular marks got onto the bread.. What the hell was that cooked in/with.

All I can say about this dish is WOW.. I have never eaten something this unhealthy in my entire life.. Please understand, I eat hamburgers for breakfast, I have ribs for lunch, and then a big dinner.. But this here was just a plate of wrong.. Not mentioning how bad a plate of melted cheese would be.. But its like they created the cheese in some lab somewhere.. It tasted so fake and manufactured.. Almost like if you made powdered cheese into a block and melted it.. It wasnt horrible tasting, but it was just wrong..

Next we had the chicken alfredo pizza.. White bread rolled in a circle, then steamed or microwaved into a soggy mess.. Then topped with with grilled chicken, Italian cheeses, alfredo sauce and scallions. $12.75.. Just in case Sbarro's runs out of pizza, dont worry folks we have the next crappiest thing.. Perhaps if it was crispy it wouldnt be horrible.. But this thing was a soggy mess.. The chicken was actually cooked well.. Wasnt tough, wasnt dry, it was decent..

I had to do it.. The classic pizza shot just to show the crispness of the pizza.. I wonder how many hours they spent studying at the Tuscan Institute on this beauty.. To prevent any sort of browning or crisping that those fancy Neopolitan pizzas get, is not as easy as you would think... Bravo..Just like Tuscany..

Sick Yet?

Pasta Courses:

Next up was Manicotti Formaggio.. $16.25 First of all. I dont know where in New York you would have to pay this much for a plate of Manicotti.. This was manicotti stuffed with ricotta, mozzarella, parmesan cheese and herbs, baked and then covered in red sauce.. This actually was one of the better dishes.. Still not good, but decent.. The ricotta was super dry.. I would believe it if someone told me it originally comes like the powdered mash potatoes.. All you have to do is add water and fluff it up.. The pasta itself was al dente and tasted fine.. The main problem was the horrid ricotta and the amount they gave you.. After removing about half of the cheese, it was still to cheesy.. When I was done eating this dish, I had a mound of cheese the size of a baseball on my plate.. The sauce was super sweet. Not horrible.. I dont think I have had personally used a jarred tomato sauce, I want to say ever, but I will say in 18 years.. It would be what I imagine Prego or something to taste like..

Three Meat Ravioli: Ravioli filled with beef, sausage and chicken topped with sage-butter, pesto and marinara sauce. 16.25.. Again, show me a place that has meat Ravioli priced this high in the city.. The dish was inedible.. Really, this thing was disgusting.. I took a bite and spit it out.. Considering how terrible I felt this morning, I am lucky I didnt eat this garbage..

Honestly, i dont think I have ever eaten anything this bad before, that was purposely made to taste good..

This is what I hope people in prison are eating...

Meat Course:

Steak Gorgonzola Alfredo: $16.75 Steak with a balsamic glaze, served over fettuccine gorgonzola-alfredo. This was my favorite dish.. And really was actually pretty good.. The steak was actually COOKED TO ORDER.. I asked for medium rare and received it pink... It had a decent super sweet balsamic glaze.. The fettucine was cooked al dente.. And the sauce was decent.. I can only imagine that amount of garbage that went into it, but it was good..

Mixed Grill: Grilled marinated steak and chicken with rosemary. Served with grilled vegetables and Tuscan potatoes $20.95... Wow.. 21 bucks some steak and chicken at the OG.. Incredible.. This dish was ok too.. The steak was fine, the chicken was fine too.. Nothing special, but nothing horrible.. Most likely the healthiest thing we have eaten to this point.. The vegetables were absolutely horrible.. Flavored with liquid smoke I would guess.. The potatoes were terrible...

Fish Course:

Now I am a really big fan of mussels.. What do you think I am that crazy.. Haha..

I would say that it really was a learning experience.. I could understand why someone would go to there local Olive Garden.. Obviously, nobody orders three courses.. Its a way to get a lot of food fairly cheap.. The food is incredibly bad for you.. Its over sauced, over cheesed, over processed, unhealthy fake food.. But some people like that type of food.. A big plate of melted lab cheese is right up someone's alley..

The majority of people in the Times Square location were tourists.. The table to my left were from England, to the right were from Germany, and a few American tourists were visible.. The waiter even said almost 80 percent of his customers were Tourists.. So much in fact, that the bill automatically included 15 percent tip so Europeans wouldnt stiff them..

I must say last night, I had a horrible sleep.. I had nightmares the entire night.. I woke up this morning starving, though I was filled with this food.. I even induced vomiting to get rid of this stuff this morning.. I am by far a health nut, but this stuff is too much for me.. I would never go back to eat.. I really just dont think whats in the food is good healthy for you mentally or physically.. Today I feel like slow and sad for no reason.. I havent eaten yet today, but have drank several glasses of water.. I took one for egullet, so hopefully you dont have to..

Edited March 31, 2006 by Daniel (log)

[phaelon56]

Daniel - thanks for the report - and thanks for "taking one for the team".

This comment

This is what I hope people in prison are eating...

prompts me to think that you refer to the people in prison who've been really bad - not just the garden variety general prison population

[Rebecca263]

Poor boy! Bravo for your efforts. I felt the same illness after I tried Pizza Hut a few years ago. I also threw up the next day , but I still didn't feel better for a couple of days more. It's got to be the salty processed cheese. I think that if you don't eat a lot of processed cheese your body just can't handle it, when you do.

Edited March 31, 2006 by Rebecca263 (log)