A mystery in my stock pot

[MarketStEl]

As usual after preparing a large turkey--which I now do twice a year, at Thanksgiving and Christmas--I strip the bird as completely as I can and toss the bones into my Crock-Pot to make a stock.

The problem was, this year, the bones from the 22-pound bird I prepared were too big to all fit in the Crock-Pot. So I split them between the slow cooker and a 5-quart cast-iron pot I have. I added a carrot, a rib of celery and a small sliced onion to each, added water to cover plus some, sprinkled some Old Bay over both, then turned the Crock-Pot to High and set the burner under the stockpot to Low.

After about 12 hours, during which I added another quart of water to the stock pot, I had the usual grayish-brown translucent liquid, tasting of turkey and veggies, in the Crock-Pot. Adding a little salt to it made it just about perfect.

Meanwhile, the cast-iron pot was about half-full of a milky yellowish-white liquid that tasted heavily of turkey fat and was a little saltier than the other stock. Not at all what I think of when I hear the word "stock."

Can someone tell me what I did wrong with the stovetop batch?

[andiesenji]

I start stock with bringing the liquid up to a high simmer or barely boil, then reduce the temperature to a low simmer.

I always roast the carcass until the bones are very brown - they are also very brittle by this time and I smash the big ones or chop them in half or smaller. Only then do they go into the stockpot.

They can be frozen at this point to make stock later, but I usually simply add hot water to the pot to lessen the time the stuff is at the critical temperature. That is, I generally strip the meat from the carcass immediately and put it straight into the oven at 275 F. so the bones will roast over a long period of time as I find this extracts the most flavor.

Edited November 28, 2005 by andiesenji (log)

[fifi]

I am not sure what is going on here. First let me describe what turkey stock should look like, in my opinion. It should look like the 2 1/2 gallons that I just made from the carcasses of two 12 pound birds that had been smoked with jalapenos and crushed oranges in the cavity. How the turkey was cooked and with what is probably immaterial since the stock looks like any turkey stock I have made from any type of turkey. When starting with a smoked bird, I remove almost all of the dark skin so the smoke won't be too strong and I clean the cavity of all of the seasonings that I can with reasonable effort.

It is a clear, as in transparent, golden liquid. I only put a couple of onions in mine but I am not sure if that has anything to do with it. What bothers me is your description of "grayish brown translucent liquid" and "milky yellowish white liquid." Both of those descriptions seem to indicate that the stock possibly boiled too vigorously and emulsified the fat, to varying degrees.

My carcasses were broken down so that they would fit in my 16 quart stock pot. I filled it to the brim so using the oven to keep it burbling wasn't a good option. On the stove top at medium low with the lid on, I would get about three bubbles rising gently at any point in time. The stockpot is one of the ss Chef Mates with the thick disk bottom and vented glass lid. About 14 hours later I had the clear liquid. There was negligible evaporation.

Other variables might be the amount of fat on the particular pieces that went into each pot, how much evaporation was involved, if there was any interaction with the cast iron.

I dunno. (Gee! Isn't that a lot of help?)

[MarketStEl]

Actually, Fifi, that tells me a lot.

For starters, I have the heat up too high. After about four hours on High, the Crock-Pot stock simmers with frequent bubbles. The stock pot set on Low had many small bubbles rising through the liquid. On Warm, it hardly bubbled at all, which I thought was too low. I understand it should be just under the boil, right?

That would also explain why I never had anything to skim off the top of the stock, which I understand I should have. (I also need to get a finer sieve than the one I have right now.)

Sounds like I should have the Crock-Pot on Low and the stove on Warm next time.

[Soup]

The cast iron was set to high (temp wise) and it boiled for too long. Slow cooker and pressure cooker always gives me perfect stock (e.g., the western version) because neither does a hard rolling boil.

For korean dishes, I sometime use the hard boil to get the stock "milky". On Friday, I put the a large stock pot with the turkey carcass and the usual veggie and spice to a hard boil on the outdoor burner. After about 6 or 7 hours, the stock was finished and I got this very milking very turkey tasting broth. And the house didn't smell.

With it I made "Su Jae Bee", korean potato dumpling soup. It came out pretty good (e.g., everyone of the guest in the house had 2nds or 3rds).

I love turkey in left over form almost as much as the first time when it comes out of the oven. Although I am alway surprised at the number of people that don't use its carcass (or roast chicken for that matter) for making stock.

Soup

[fifi]

. . . . .

That would also explain why I never had anything to skim off the top of the stock, which I understand I should have.  . . .

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Well . . . no. When making a stock with a previously cooked bird, you won't get the "gunk" that you do when starting with raw meat. The proteins have already been coagulated.

Yes, I do my stocks of all kinds at just under a boil. Bubbles like I described above.

As depicted in the eGCI course a fine mesh skimmer as pictured (scroll down) is a very useful thing to have.

I just found a new use for mine today. I had a pot of chicken stock in my very cold fridge. I had broken through the fat to steal a couple of cups for the cornbread dressing the other day. There were still chunks of fat floating in it. Today, I wanted to remove the fat before reducing it for storage. While still very cold, the little skimmer did a great job.

[dockhl]

burbling

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I love that word.........

[fifi]

Then you might enjoy the discussion of "gibbles" starting here.

[therese]

I used my slow cooker (Crock Pot) on low overnight. Nice rich clear stock (well, more like consomme after it had cooled), made great soup today.

[BarbaraY]

I break up the carcass and cover it with water in a stainless steel pot. This year I got side tracked and didn't add any aromatics but the stock is golden and tastes of pure essence of turkey. It is in the freezer for next time I want turkey gravy.

I've never made any stock in cast iron. Are you using uncoated cast iron pot? That could be the problem.

[jsolomon]

I am not sure what is going on here. First let me describe what turkey stock should look like, in my opinion. It should look like the 2 1/2 gallons that I just made from the carcasses of two 12 pound birds

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2.5 gallons? Holy crap, from one 13 pound bird I got just over a quart (reduced siginificantly, though.)

Should I be stock-making in more water?

Edited November 28, 2005 by jsolomon (log)

[fifi]

I pretty much went by the proportions in the eGCI course, 8 pounds of meat and bones for a 16 quart batch. I am pretty sure that I had a bit more than 8 pounds in the two carcasses from 12 pound birds. I didn't take up much space with aromatic vegetables having only put in a couple of onions. (This was seasoned, smoked turkey with remains of jalepeno and orange in the cavities so I didn't want to muddy the waters with celery and carrot.) So, I got ~10 quarts of liquid instead of the usual ~8 out of the pot.

Gumbo this week!!!

[MarketStEl]

I break up the carcass and cover it with water in a stainless steel pot. This year I got side tracked and didn't add any aromatics but the stock is golden and tastes of pure essence of turkey. It is in the freezer for next time I want turkey gravy.

I've never made any stock in cast iron. Are you using uncoated cast iron pot? That could be the problem.

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Actually, my 5-quart cast-iron stock pot came with a coating and was ready to use out of the box. I'm inclined to think that the stock I got out of it resulted not from interaction with the iron, but from reducing it at too high a temperature. (I had about 90 percent of the liquid I put into the Crock-Pot 12 hours later, but only half the liquid I had put into the cast-iron pot--actually, about one-third, considering that I had added another quart to my original 2 1/2 quarts halfway through the simmering.

After going back through the eGCI stockmaking course--I really should read more and chat less here--I think the problem with the stovetop stock is the result of too high a temperature on the stove; I should have simmered the stock on Warm. (Recall that I said the milky liquid tasted heavily of turkey fat.)

I'm also not sure that the "translucent" liquid I described above is an inappropriately simmered stock, judging from some of the pictures I saw in the course. I will post a photo of some of the stock I have sitting in the fridge when I get home, and you all can judge.

I do think I should not be so aggressive about removing every last speck of meat from the bones, however. My Crock-Pot stock this time tasted more of vegetables than turkey, though adding some salt to it brought out more turkey flavor.

[jsolomon]

There also may not have been an even split between the two vessels. My first thought was that you had many of the large bones in one and fatty portions in the other.

[fifi]

There also may not have been an even split between the two vessels.  My first thought was that you had many of the large bones in one and fatty portions in the other.

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I was thinking the same thing.

Also, I am not at all meticulous about removing meat from the bones. Scraps of white meat still clinging the the breast bone are left intact. While the bigger chunks of thigh meat have been eaten or retrieved for the gumbo, all of the harder to get at pieces are left on the bone. The same is true of the back section, but I do nip the oysters. We don't have a lot of folks that are fond of turkey legs so I had two legs in the pot from the original four. Nobody messes with the wings so they go in the pot as well. You have to have some meat to make a rich stock. If the stock is well "burbled" the meat should end up with no flavor worth saving it for. When I had a dog, a voracious basset, she was relatively uninterested in meat from the stock pot.

In a lot of the old, really old, English cookery books the phrase "seeth it well" is used when referring to making soups and stocks. I think that is pretty descriptive.

[jmcgrath]

I filled it to the brim so using the oven to keep it burbling wasn't a good option. On the stove top at medium low with the lid on, I would get about three bubbles rising gently at any point in time.

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I think James Beard called it a gentle ebulation.

[MarketStEl]

Okay, here's a report from the latest round of stockmaking:

I dismembered the bird I cooked the day after Christmas (for photos, see the "Dinner!" thread) and tossed all the large bones into the Crock-Pot along with about 1/4 of a jumbo carrot, sliced, a rib of celery, sliced, two small onions, sliced, two quarts of water and a little Old Bay.

I then turned the Crock-Pot on Low and let it do its thing for about 30 hours. Not once did it reach the low boil it usually does on High.

There was only a little fat to skim off when I returned to the pot at the end of the cooking. I strained the liquid and put it into a two-quart jar.

That jar is now sitting in the fridge, and there are solids slowly separating out of it:

What did I do wrong this time?

[snowangel]

Sandy, I'm feeling to lazy to scroll through the Dinner! posts, but had this turkey been stuffed with anything?

[fifi]

OK . . . I am confused. What is that stuff settling out at the bottom? All of the stock I have ever made has a fat cap on the top, maybe a little bit of "gunk" at the very bottom (I don't use that fine a strainer) and that is it. I have never seen what you have there.

Gee. I hope someone can explain this.

[MarketStEl]

Sandy, I'm feeling to lazy to scroll through the Dinner! posts, but had this turkey been stuffed with anything?

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Yes--a bread stuffing with celery and onion.

I took pains to remove the stuffing from what was left of the bird before putting the bones in the stock pot and did not use the rib bones for that reason.

[fifi]

Maybe that is some residual bread. I don't know. Actually, the birds that I have made stock from have never had any bread in the cavity for stuffing. We just don't do that. Citrus fruits, peppers, onions maybe. But not bread or anything like bready. Maybe that is it. Maybe there was some residual bread stuff in there. That is the only thing I can think of but it looks like an awful lot if you didn't include the rib cage where some bread would have been trapped. I am feeling defeated.

[snowangel]

Try straining the gunk out and post of picture of it, please!

[cassady]

I agree with BarbaraY, above -- I suspect it was a reaction of the time, the high temperature and the cast iron. Unless you are using a ceramic coated cast iron, it is treated with oil or some lipid, whether by the user or nowadays at the factory. It sounds like the fat leached out into your stock.

Use a coated cast iron pot, or better, stainless steel.

Best,

cass

[MarketStEl]

Try straining the gunk out and post of picture of it, please!

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As you requested...

About three days after I took that picture, I decanted the liquid from that bottle and got 3/4 of a quart of clear golden stock.

I then strained what remained through cheesecloth four times. After the fourth straining, I let the remaining solids settle to the bottom, then decanted again.

The results of the first decanting are in the plastic bottle. The results of the second are in the mayonnaise jar.

The first decanting tastes less of vegetables than the second does, but both need a little salt to bring out more turkey flavor.

So I guess I did it right this time, huh? Even though I'm still not sure what the solids were--I don't think I left that much stuffing clinging to the bird's bones.

[Irishgirl]

Why in the world would you cook a Turkey stock for 30 hours?

That alone is the reason why it tastes more like vegetables. Probably contributes to the flotsam and jetsam in the mix as well.

In cooking school, you NEVER cook a white bird stock over 8 hours.

I think that your excessive time is part of your problem.