Everyday Cognac, Armagnac, Brandy, etc.

[Scott S]

On the other hand, if it's just gathering dust in the closet, and you can't imagine finishing the bottle inside of the next 10 years, I'm sure it would make a pretty tasty Sidecar, Old-Fashioned, or Sazerac.

That's about what I was thinking. I'm not a huge cognac drinker, but it does happen occasionally and the Ferrand was one of those occasions. But it will certainly collect some dust, so some might be more useful in a proper drink. And a Sidecar or Sazerac were the ones I was thinking about - not a Hurricane or something like that. :-)

[David Santucci]

One that I would mention is Clear Creek Brandy from Oregon. It is $40 a bottle and really good. Also their Pinot Grigio Grappa is quite good. I visited the distillery a few years back. Many of their other products (including the other grappas) were not to my liking, but those two really stood out. I bought a bottle of each and enjoyed them to the last drop.

For the cheap stuff, I recently finished off a bottle of Raynal VSOP, which set me back something like 12 bucks. It was just fine for mixing, as long as the drink was relatively sweet and didn't rely on the brandy too much. This is a sweet brandy -- not something to be served on its own to anyone whose company you would like to enjoy in the future. I replaced it with a bottle of Martell VS -- big mistake. The Martell costs twice as much (basically the same as Courvoisier and Rémy Martin), and is sweet like the Raynal and actually worse, to my taste, in cocktails. However I have seen it make some people's lists as good for mixing (which I why I bought it), so not everyone may agree with my assessment.

Not too long ago I went through a bottle of the Germain-Robin Shareholders Reserve, which cost me about $50. I have to say, I was not particularly impressed. I didn't find it to be any better than Courvoisier VSOP, which is decent, but not great. Again, you will find a lot of praise from other people about Germain-Robin, but that was my experience

Next time I get out of state I'm going to try and pick up a bottle of that Pierre Ferrand Ambre.

Edited February 26, 2007 by David Santucci (log)

[Kent Wang]

I'm also looking for an everyday brandy under $20 for a 750mL bottle.

A fellow at Spec's recommended the Claude Chatelier VSOP for $13.67 and I find it vastly superior to Remy Martin VS ($21) and Courvoisier VS ($27). It is much more mellow, but as I am not an expert on brandy I can't comment much beyond that. I find it also produces a superior sidecar.

I agree with eje's principle that it is unlikely that such large producers that also spend millions on advertising can possibly be good values. They're not absolute dreck, sure, but I'd imagine that there must be a number of better values out there.

I also wonder if there are any values to be had by purchasing 1.75 L bottles. If one is sticking with the $20/750mL, that translates into $46.67/1.75mL.

Spec's is the best value chain in Texas. Their site has listings for brandy, cognac and armagnac. I don't have a preference, I just want good value.

For the 1.75 bottles under $46, we find:

CHRISTIAN BROTHERS BRANDY [uSA] 1.75L 18.42

CORTEL VSOP FRENCH BRANDY 80' 1.75L 20.78

DON PEDRO BRANDY [MEXICO] 1.75L 31.23

E & J BRANDY [CALIFORNIA] 1.75L 17.88

E & J BRANDY VSOP [CALIFORNIA] 1.75L 18.86

KORBEL BRANDY [uSA] 1.75L 18.41

MASSON BRANDY GRAND AMBER [uSA] 1.75L 17.75

MASSON VSOP BRANDY [uSA] 1.75L 22.76

MONTMARTRE FRENCH BRANDY [FRANCE] 1.75L 21.04

POTTERS BRANDY 1.75L 15.37

PRESIDENTE BRANDY [MEXICO] 1.75L 24.41

RAYNAL NAPOLEON BRANDY 1.75L 23.80

ST REMY NAPOLEON BRANDY V.S.O.P. 1.75L 21.04

Most of these are probably absolute dreck, but are there any good ones?

For the conventional 750 mL bottles under $20, we have:

Cognac:

CLAUDE CHATELIER VSOP [FRANCE] 750ML 13.67

GAUTIER VS COGNAC [FRANCE] 750ML 15.58

LANDY V.S. COGNAC [FRANCE] 750ML 16.83

FRANCET VS COGNAC [FRANCE] 750ML 17.36

SALIGNAC COGNAC V.S. [FRANCE] 750ML 18.94

ALIZE VS COGNAC [FRANCE] 750ML 18.94

Brandy (excluding the 1.75L bottles already mentioned above):

CASTELLANO BRANDY [MEXICO] 750ML 9.34

DE POURVIL NAPOLEON BRANDY 750ML 9.62

ST REMY NAPOLEON BRANDY V.S.O.P. 750ML 9.83

STOCK BRANDY [iTALY] 750ML 10.31

JACQUES CARDIN BRANDY LT 12.02

TORRES SOLERA SELECTA 5YR [sPAIN] 750ML 15.78

FUNDADOR BRANDY * SPAIN [sPAIN] 750ML 16.43

CORTEL X.O. FRENCH BRANDY 8O' 750ML 17.20

Spec's does not carry Chalfonte or Serenne.

Are there any better values here than the Chatelier? There are a lot of choices so I'd like to have a bit of guidance before I just go out and start buying.

Also, I suppose it's fair to say that VS, VSOP and XO should not be used as the sole indicators of quality as surely the Cortel XO ($17.20) is not as good as VSOPs by other makers.

[thirtyoneknots]

I have tried the Chatelier, also on the recommendation of a Spec's employee, and did not like it at all. I have not had Remy Martin VS, and don't care much for Covoursier (any bottling I have tried) but I do like Martell -- in some things. Martell is a brand that to me does not work in everything, but in the places it does work, it really shines. For most other applications I like Henessey VS, though Fundador is pretty good too. The nice thing about getting a decent cognac like Henessey or Martell is that they can do double duty for sipping in a pinch, but they are not so expensive as to make you cringe to mix them.

I found the Claude Chatelier VSOP to be very hot and alcoholic tasting with little character, but aside from Fundador I have not tried any of the other brands listed here.

-Andy

[eje]

I haven't tried this Cognac myself; but, I did notice that Alembic (a bar here in San Francisco) is using the Maison Surrenne Petit Champagne Cognac as their rail brand.

Usually comes in around $30 at retail.

I've tried the Ferrand Ambre in a couple cocktails, and think it stands up quite well. Though, it's usually priced in the mid-30s, making it pretty deluxe for an everyday mixer.

The Germain-Robin Fine Alembic Brandy seems to have gone up in price in the last couple years, putting its price higher than either of the Cognacs listed above. Also, before I finished that bottle, I grew a bit disenchanted with it. The Germain-Robin is good; but, seemed a bit single noted compared to the Ferrand Ambre and the few other Cognacs I've tried since I first picked it up.

[David Santucci]

I did a little comparison of two of the big brands' VS offerings. I'm pretty familiar with Courvoisier, so I picked up a little bottle of Rémy Martin and Hennessy VS's. Both were perfectly acceptable straight, with no clear winner. I found the Hennessy was a little richer in flavor, but the Rémy was just as good. Then I compared them in a Sidecar. Again, both were up to the task, and neither was way ahead of the other, but I did prefer the Rémy, especially when I upped the ratio of Cognac to lemon juice and curaçao. It's cleaner flavor seemed more suited to blending with the other flavors. Both, I would say are superior to Courvoisier VS for sipping.

[thirtyoneknots]

I must add that my favorite sipping Cognac I have ever tasted was definitely Martell Cordon Blue. It's a bit beyond my price range (around $80 I think) but luckily my boss is always willing to let us taste stuff we carry at work, which often ends up being a normal pour oops

-Andy

[Beebs]

I'm so envious of all the liquor selections you have down there in the US! I'm looking through our provincial liquor distribution product list and couldn't find most of the brandies various posters mentioned. Boooo! The stuff we have up in British Columbia costs an arm and a leg -- Courvoisier/Hennessy/Remy Martin VS's are $50-55 CAD per 750 mL ($42-48 USD), retail price. Eeep!

Anyways, I've just recently gotten interested in spirits & cocktails. But what are all your thoughts on grappa & metaxa, and using one or the other in brandy-based cocktails, like in a Sidecar? The only experience I've had with grappa was a someone's homemade stuff that practically took off the top of my head!

Thanks!

[thirtyoneknots]

In my rather limited experience with grappa, it's character is not something that strikes me as being a good mixer in the way that Cognac, etc is.

[eje]

Homemade grappa?

Well, yeah, grappa isn't a very good substitute for brandy.

I think Metaxa is OK. Kind of its own thing, though. I've never tried it; but, I've read it is lightly flavored with herbs and spices. Maybe sweetened a bit too?

If French Cognacs are ungodly expensive, how about Spanish Brandies? They're a bit different flavor-wise from Cognacs; but, perfectly respectable, and often quite reasonable.

[menon1971]

Ansac VS in my experience is inoffensive as a digestif and works well for cooking. Has anyone seen Baron Otard in the U.S.?

[scratchline]

Has anyone tried the Maison Prunier VS or VSOP cognac? We too are looking for a French brandy to use in cocktails--not so good or expensive that it feels wasted in a cocktail. The Prunier VS & VSOP are $19-25. We have tried the Prunier orange liqueur (based on cognac), which LeNell carries and really likes ("It kicks Grand Marnier's ass!"), and we liked it too. Haven't had the opportunity to try any of their other products.

[slkinsey]

what are all your thoughts on grappa & metaxa, and using one or the other in brandy-based cocktails, like in a Sidecar?

I love grappa. But most any grappa worth drinking will be lost in a cocktail. They also tend to be quite expensive. I could see using a reasonably priced white grappa like Nardini, but even that's fairly expensive for a use where you're not getting much mileage out of the spirit.

[Kent Wang]

If French Cognacs are ungodly expensive, how about Spanish Brandies?  They're a bit different flavor-wise from Cognacs; but, perfectly respectable, and often quite reasonable.

←

Fundador is available here and at $17 a bottle is within my price range. Have you tried that?

[thirtyoneknots]

If French Cognacs are ungodly expensive, how about Spanish Brandies?  They're a bit different flavor-wise from Cognacs; but, perfectly respectable, and often quite reasonable.

←

Fundador is available here and at $17 a bottle is within my price range. Have you tried that?

←

I got a bottle of Fundador recently and like it fine as a mixer. It's character is somewhat different than Cognac, but so far nothing that affects mixability in a significant way, though with the weather turning warm I haven't been drinking as much brandy. I would be interested to hear the findings of others though.

-Andy

[camdan]

I'm considering broadening my ethanolic horizons to include brandy and by the looks of things armagnac is the place to start in order to get decent quality at a not ridiculous price. So, what would you recommend as a good introduction? Should I just go with Janneau or is there something a bit more obscure that might be better? I realise it's a fairly expensive choice of tipple, so I'm prepared to spend a reasonable (mid two-figures £) amount.

The only decent brandy I've ever had before was Hine Antique, which I thought was very nice. I've had cheap and nasty ones as well, which have tasted cheap and nasty.

[camdan]

http://www.royalmilewhiskies.com/product.a...d=0390000001634

Does anyone know anything about this producer (Carrere)? Is buying this as good an idea as it seems? It's very hard to find any armagmac reviews on the net...

I might go for a bottle of Ferrand 'Selection des Anges' cognac at some point, although given my preference for scotch with a bit of punch I suspect I'm going to be more of an armagnac man.

Also, do vintage brandies show anything like the variation from year to year that wines do? Or will the production from one distiller at a given age be the same as all other vintages from that producer were/are/will be when at that age?

Edited December 25, 2007 by camdan (log)

[perfumekev]

Hey Erik and fellow mix geeks,

Have any of you tried the Louis Royer Force 53 Cognac? it is a Grand Champagne

it is VSOP and it is 106 proof.! It gives a new meaning to cognac (brandy) based

cocktails

Not only is it a nice cognac, but its real benefit is the way it gives projection to the

flavors of the finished cocktail.

I don't know which states can get it yet but you can mail order from Shoppers Vineyard.

Just thought you all would be interested!

and it's only $45

[slkinsey]

I'm not sure when Cognac went over to the current standard proof of 40% abv. I believe that, according to Dave Wondrich, most pre-phylloxera Cognac (which would then account for most 19C usage) was at around 100 proof. This would make the Louis Royer Force 53 a great spirit for Improved Brandy Cocktails and the like. I'm getting some!

[Splificator]

I'm not sure when Cognac went over to the current standard proof of 40% abv.  I believe that, according to Dave Wondrich, most pre-phylloxera Cognac (which would then account for most 19C usage) was at around 100 proof.  This would make the Louis Royer Force 53 a great spirit for Improved Brandy Cocktails and the like.  I'm getting some!

←

It is indeed; I've been using it for a while. Not for sipping, though.

[David Santucci]

This would make the Louis Royer Force 53 a great spirit for Improved Brandy Cocktails and the like.  I'm getting some!

←

It is indeed; I've been using it for a while. Not for sipping, though.

←

This is exciting news guys! Any other suggestions in this area, Dave? I love brandy cocktails, but have yet to find a go-to brand; every time I try something new.

[Scotttos]

Have any of you tried the Louis Royer Force 53 Cognac? it is a Grand Champagne

←

Looks like astor has it as well, it's online anyhow.

Exciting!

[perfumekev]

Louis Royer 53

I agree with Dave it's not the best sipping cognac but it makes for some great brandy cocktails.

The Louis Royer 53 makes a fantastic Metropole cocktail ala Dave's version in Imbibe

I've really been into Martell XO and Cordon Blue lately per Mr. Wondrich's sugestion.

I scored an 1964 unopened bottle of Martell Cordon Blue a couple of days ago still in it's original box.

fantastic stuff made a few stingers with some of it w/ Marie Brizard white creme de menthe a couple of dashes of Swisse Vert absinthe from Jade. Very very nice drink. Ever since I read the coment from dave In imbibe about the dashes of absitne in a stinger It has made it a whole new drink for me!

Is it ok to use a spearmint sprig as a garnish in a stinger? I like it but I don't know if this is faux pas.

It would be nice if Martell made a high proof cognac!

I like martells bradies they are nice for mixing, supposedly they use differnt Oak for aging than alot of the other brands. It seems to give there cognacs a fruitier flavor.

[thirtyoneknots]

Agree about Cordon Bleu, that's probably my favorite sipper in Cognac, and Martell my favorite of the big four Cognac houses. Can't wait to try and get my hands on some of this Royer stuff, gonna start checking on friends headed out of town soon!

[slkinsey]

So, I picked up a few bottles of Louis Royer Force 53 Cognac yesterday, and mixed up some Improved Brandy Cocktails with 2 ounces of cognac, around 2/3 tsp of homemade gomme syrup, 1/2 tsp of Luxardo maraschino and a few dashes of absinthe. Really nice, and entirely different from what you get using an 80 proof cognac.