Non-stick no good for boiling sugar...

[Laksa]

I tried to make some sugar-glazed walnuts by following this recipe a couple of times this past week. The recipe calls for boiling granulated sugar with a little water until the soft ball stage.

The first time I made it I boiled the sugar in a glass saucepan and everything went well, but the glaze stuck badly to the pan.

So, the second time round, I substituted the glass with a non-stick saucepan. I stirred the boiling sugar patiently, waiting for it to thicken and caramelize a little. But it never did. Before it could get the soft ball stage, the sugar recrystalized in the saucepan, turning from a clear liquid into grainy white lumps.

WTF happened? And why?

[Badiane]

I have no idea...but it has just answered a question that has been nagging me for several years...no wonder I can't make sugared nuts like my mom! Jeeezzz...damn no stick pans. Never occured to me.

[jsolomon]

There's nowhere for the bubbles to nucleate on non-stick surfaces, so they superheat.

[mikeycook]

I use a copper sauce pan lined with stainless and, while it sticks a little, I found it pretty easy to get off. Multiple soaks in hot water should dissolve the hardened glaze off any surface, seeing as it's still just sugar.

[JAZ]

I use stainless lined pans as well for sugar, although I used to use my Le Creuset when that was all I had. I agree that caramel is one of the easiest things in the world to clean up. It might seem like that crusty sugar glaze will never come off, but really hot water does it every time. (If your tap water isn't hot enough, just fill the pan with boiling water.)

[Laksa]

There's nowhere for the bubbles to nucleate on non-stick surfaces, so they superheat.

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I don't understand what you wrote, but it sounds good though.

So the bubbles need to nucleate to make the sugar sticky? Why won't the bubbles nucleate on the non-stick surface? Why would superheating cause the sugar to recrystallize? I'm no chemist, but I'd thought that if the pan was hot enough, the sugar would remain liquid.

[Laksa]

Yes, the cleaning wasn't a problem (I think). Well, I didn't do the clean up, but had it been a problem, someone would've made sure I knew about it.

I just hated to see so much sugar stick to the pan instead of my nuts.

[tejon]

I just hated to see so much sugar stick to the pan instead of my nuts.

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This may have to be my next sig line.

[chiantiglace]

This is a question that really needs to be asked in the pastry forum. Many people there have a lot of experience with sugar work.

All I have at home is tefflon pans from k-mart or where ever, accept for a couple saute pans I conjured up the money for. I have never had a problem caramelizing sugar with them It has little to nothing to do with the pan. More or less your control over the sugar through its cooking stages.

You need to make sure you keep the sides clear from crystalization, because if crystals form before your temp is up it (your issue, in this case) ca cause the hole pot to recrystalize. Practice washing down the sides with a pastry brush dipped into a glass of water, you dont need much, just a dab or two. Once the sugar forms its structure as a whole you wont have to do this anymore. Basically what happens is when all the "excess water" has be cooked out and the sugar starts to boil down the remaining formin its structure it wont crystalize on the side. Also if your sugar is slightly tampered or your water ill purified than debris being boiled up and out of the mixed can interfere with the sugar cooking process. Pay attention to groups of "film" gathering on the surface and lightly skim these bubble films off until the mass looks consitant.

It is best to use copper, then stainless, then aluminum, then teflon in that order. Which ever pan you have that is highest in that order. I have noticed recently that my sugar gets harder at a lower temp oddly with my teflon pan. So there is a lack of "grab" going on, but still you can get your caramel.

Edited November 11, 2005 by chiantiglace (log)

[jack daniels]

one more important step. Do not stir the sugar after it reaches the liquid stage. That may be the major reason you are having trouble, not so much the pan you are using.

Edited November 11, 2005 by jack daniels (log)

[I_call_the_duck]

I'm probably wrong about this, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the sugar crystals need to "cling" to the sides of the pan in order to crystalize properly, which of course you can't do with a non-stick pan. Need to dig out my Harold McGee.

I just hated to see so much sugar stick to the pan instead of my nuts.

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This may have to be my next sig line.

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Getting off the subject for a minute, when we were in Hawaii, we were on a tour, and at one point our tour guide said something to the extent of, "here is Jim Nabors' farm. If you see a package of macademia nuts from Naborly Farms, you can buy Jim Nabors' nuts." I burst out laughing, while the other people on the bus just looked at me funny. Yes, I have an eight year-old sense of humor. (For those of you who don't know who JN is, he was most famous for playing Gomer Pyle on the Andy Griffith show.)

[FoodMan]

I agree with chiantiglace, you have other problems and it's not the pan. Using a heavy non-stick pan is perfectly fine. I use my small non-stick sauce pan to make caramel all the time with no problem. I use a dry method, just gently heat the sugar without stirring until it starts to caramalize, then tilt the pan and swirl the sugar for even metling/browning.

BTW, the easiest way to clean caramelized sugar is to let the pot/pan/glassware soak in water, ie fill it with water and within 30 minutes or so all the sugar will melt and it will be good as new. To speed it up boil the water in the pot.

[jayt90]

I wouldn't use teflon coated saucepans for any high heat cooking, including most sugar confections.

The reason has to do with possible gas emissions which are considered hazardous, when an area of the pan gets too hot. If a canary in the kitchen stops singing, then I've gone too far.

I've also noticed that the non stick properties of these pans are more likely to wear out if subjected to high heat, even for a minute or two.

[Patrick S]

I wouldn't use teflon coated saucepans for any high heat cooking, including most sugar confections.

The reason has to do with possible gas emissions which are considered hazardous, when an area of the pan gets too hot. If a canary in the kitchen stops singing, then I've gone too far.

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True, teflon will break down and emit toxic fumes, but only if you heat it to about 600F. Teflon is completely stable at sugar-working temps, which are not higher than about 390F.

[k43]

I've always read that you should use an unlined copper pot for melting sugar. See these Mauviel pieces.

[Laksa]

You need to make sure you keep the sides clear from crystalization, because if crystals form before your temp is up it (your issue, in this case) ca cause the hole pot to recrystalize.

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I think this is exactly what happened. It started out with sugar dust forming on the sides of the pan, and it got worse soon after that.

Thing is, without varying my method, I never encountered the same problem when using the glass pan. Maybe it's more forgiving.

[chiantiglace]

I agree with chiantiglace, you have other problems and it's not the pan. Using a heavy non-stick pan is perfectly fine. I use my small non-stick sauce pan to make caramel all the time with no problem. I use a dry method, just gently heat the sugar without stirring until it starts to caramalize, then tilt the pan and swirl the sugar for even metling/browning.

BTW, the easiest way to clean caramelized sugar is to let the pot/pan/glassware soak in water, ie fill it with water and within 30 minutes or so all the sugar will melt and it will be good as new. To speed it up boil the water in the pot.

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I forgot to mention that I alweays fill the pan with sugar and bring it to a boil and probably simmer for 20 minutes. After that time all the sugar has been dissapated into the water solution. Just pour it out in the sink and its clean.

[jayt90]

I wouldn't use teflon coated saucepans for any high heat cooking, including most sugar confections.

The reason has to do with possible gas emissions which are considered hazardous, when an area of the pan gets too hot. If a canary in the kitchen stops singing, then I've gone too far.

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True, teflon will break down and emit toxic fumes, but only if you heat it to about 600F. Teflon is completely stable at sugar-working temps, which are not higher than about 390F.

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What worries me is the way a sugar confection will group in one part of the pan, if there is a small amount, and the rest of the pan will heat up more quickly. It's not a risk that I would take if other saucepans with reliable characteristics, such as copper, were available.

[Patrick S]

I wouldn't use teflon coated saucepans for any high heat cooking, including most sugar confections.

The reason has to do with possible gas emissions which are considered hazardous, when an area of the pan gets too hot. If a canary in the kitchen stops singing, then I've gone too far.

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True, teflon will break down and emit toxic fumes, but only if you heat it to about 600F. Teflon is completely stable at sugar-working temps, which are not higher than about 390F.

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What worries me is the way a sugar confection will group in one part of the pan, if there is a small amount, and the rest of the pan will heat up more quickly. It's not a risk that I would take if other saucepans with reliable characteristics, such as copper, were available.

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I understand what you're saying, but I think the risk really is pretty much zero that any part of the teflon is going to reach anywhere close to 600F. I make candy all the time using my digital thermometer, and I've never observed a temperature difference more than 20-30F between any two spots in the pan. As long as sugar is in its liquid state, you're not going to see much temperature inhomogeneity.

[chiantiglace]

I've always read that you should use an unlined copper pot for melting sugar.  See these Mauviel pieces.

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Sometimes its just a fluke. Toss it and try again. happens again, toss it and try again. happened to me a million times before i learned how to control it.