Wine to pair with French Onion soup

[chuckyoufarley]

I need some help here.

My friends and I are going to being having a dinner party this weekend.

I have been given the task to serve a classic French Onion soup.

Rather than going the regular route I have taken it upon myself to commit to Thomas Keller's Bouchon cookbook, 2-3 day, 8 hour stock, 6 hour Onion carmelization Zen patience endurance test.

I also have some intention to float a whisper of port on top of the crust.

That said I also need a libation to pair with the soup.

I have done some research that has produced suggestions of Merlot, Beaujolais Nouveau, a sherry, and what was suggested as the traditional accompaniment, a Dry Gewürztraminer or Pinot Gris.

My assumption is that the soup will be really sweet with all the time invested with the onions.

I also am going to go with a Gruyere for the crust. I have a pretty decent relatively low pungent sample I’m going to use.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Shaun

[carswell]

what was suggested as the traditional accompaniment, a Dry Gewürztraminer or Pinot Gris

←

First time I've heard that. Every French food-and-wine pairing book I've seen has indicated that the traditional accompaniment to French onion or any other soup is no wine at all.

Have read that at Les Halles they served FOS with Beaujolais or young Côtes-du-Rhône.

Personally, I'd probably opt for a generic Burgundy or a fruity white from Gaillac, Jurançon or elsewhere in the Southwest. But, then again, I'd probably forego the Port.

A while back, an e-friend organized a comparison tasting that involved onion soup and several red wines, ranging from zinfandel and Amarone to a $3.99 vin de table from Trader Joe's. The Amarone and Médoc were not good matches; the zin, a Beaujolais and a generic French merlot were OK; to everyone's astonishment, the VDT took the prize. Make of that what you will.

Edited November 8, 2005 by carswell (log)

[jackal10]

Sherry or even better, madeira.

You could consider a white port.

Champage, of course, goes with anything

[Busboy]

Serve what you think tastes good. Think what you'd order in a Paris bistro -- probably just the house red. Get something a little rustic. I'd look for a burly little Cotes du Rhone, myself, though a nice Alsation sounds good, too -- that gewurtz or pinot gris (or pinot blanc, which I prefer).

[Jason Perlow]

Sherry or even better, madeira.

You could consider a white port.

Champage, of course, goes with anything

←

Yeah, I would say Sherry as well. Perhaps something on the light end of the scale.

A Cidre Bouche might not be bad either. You want something with high acid content I think to break up the oilyness and fattyness of the Gruyere cheese.

Busboy's Alsace reccomendation is also solid. I'm not a huge fan of drinking big ass boistrous reds such as Burgundies with Soupe L'Oignon (particularly because most of the recipes I have seen call for deglazing the onions with white wine, sherry or cognac or a combination thereof before the stock is added) unless of course you plan to serve a meat dish as your main course, like Steak Au Poive or something like that.

[chuckyoufarley]

The more I am thinking about it the more I am leaning towards a dry Alsatian of some sorts. I think a dry Alsatian will play nicely off the sweetness of the onions and the deck of Gruyere crust I'll have there.

A few of the dry alsatians I have should also be able to rip through the richness of the cheese as well.

I am going to most likely ditch the port on top of the cheese.

To much going on.

The night before the dinner I am going to try 3 or 4 different glasses to gain an assesment of what works.

We'll see.

Edited November 8, 2005 by chuckyoufarley (log)

[chuckyoufarley]

Sherry or even better, madeira.

You could consider a white port.

Champage, of course, goes with anything

←

Yeah, I would say Sherry as well. Perhaps something on the light end of the scale.

A Cidre Bouche might not be bad either. You want something with high acid content I think to break up the oilyness and fattyness of the Gruyere cheese.

Busboy's Alsace reccomendation is also solid. I'm not a huge fan of drinking big ass boistrous reds such as Burgundies with Soupe L'Oignon (particularly because most of the recipes I have seen call for deglazing the onions with white wine, sherry or cognac or a combination thereof before the stock is added) unless of course you plan to serve a meat dish as your main course, like Steak Au Poive or something like that.

←

The soup I am making is basically a really good beef stock, sachet and onions.

then the crouton and cheese.

No deglazing with any other booze.

The menu is going to be

1. French onion soup

2 Crispy Pork belly

3. The Balthazar Duck Shepherds pie

4. Choc Pot de Creme

Frankly, I cant freaking wait. I live for these dinners. We do a pot luck thing.

My two other buddies are ex-chefs as well so it almost turns into a whos got the biggest jimmy type of thing.

The food is always classic simple stuff but with a big effort made by everyone to bring out their A game.

Edited November 8, 2005 by chuckyoufarley (log)

[M.X.Hassett]

Not much to add. I think sherry would go nicely considering TK's recipe calls for sherry vinegar. Although I have seen other recipes that call for port(LHBoardain), red wine, white wine, and sherry(not vinegar Me). Plus that menu looks awesome.

[Jason Perlow]

That's a very rich line up of dishes, Chuck. I would stay on the light side and progress into more powerful wines with each dish. I'd go with the sherry (manzanilla perhaps), cidre or spanish sidra (sparkling cider) or a champagne/sparkler to start. The Alsatian might be too boozy for a first course, perhaps with the Pork, go germanic and get a Kabinett level Riesling or the Alsatian Gewurtz. Maybe Chenin Blanc or Sauvignon Blanc. The shepherd's pie is going to demand a serious red so you could do your Burgundy then. What are you going to serve with the Pot de Creme? Banyuls? Thats a good wine to match with dark chocolate desserts.

Course if you wanna be festive you start with Beaujelais Nouveau. All the cool kids are doing it. Thats pretty low impact but I like the idea of starting with whites and progressing into reds.

[Bill Miller]

what was suggested as the traditional accompaniment, a Dry Gewürztraminer or Pinot Gris

←

First time I've heard that. Every French food-and-wine pairing book I've seen has indicated that the traditional accompaniment to French onion or any other soup is no wine at all.

Have read that at Les Halles they served FOS with Beaujolais or young Côtes-du-Rhône.

Personally, I'd probably opt for a generic Burgundy or a fruity white from Gaillac, Jurançon or elsewhere in the Southwest. But, then again, I'd probably forego the Port.

A while back, an e-friend organized a comparison tasting that involved onion soup and several red wines, ranging from zinfandel and Amarone to a $3.99 vin de table from Trader Joe's. The Amarone and Médoc were not good matches; the zin, a Beaujolais and a generic French merlot were OK; to everyone's astonishment, the VDT took the prize. Make of that what you will.

←

I love a Rioja with a creamy mushroom soup, but have enjoyed a crisp dry gin martini with New England clam chowder and had the first wine course with the next item on the menu. How about being creative and find a cocktail to go with onion soup. Heresy, I know.

[chuckyoufarley]

That's a very rich line up of dishes, Chuck. I would stay on the light side and progress into more powerful wines with each dish. I'd go with the sherry (manzanilla perhaps), cidre or spanish sidra (sparkling cider) or a champagne/sparkler to start. The Alsatian might be too boozy for a first course, perhaps with the Pork, go germanic and get a Kabinett level Riesling or the Alsatian Gewurtz. Maybe Chenin Blanc or Sauvignon Blanc. The shepherd's pie is going to demand a serious red so you could do your Burgundy then. What are you going to serve with the Pot de Creme? Banyuls? Thats a good wine to match with dark chocolate desserts.

Course if you wanna be festive you start with Beaujelais Nouveau. All the cool kids are doing it.  Thats pretty low impact but I like the idea of starting with whites and progressing into reds.

←

Jason,

I appreciate your advice.

The menu is a bit rich.

We are doing tiny portions to keep the cost and distended bloat down.

All my friends and I tend to have a deep lust for "winter" cooking.

This is going to be our first cold weather (I live in Southern Cal ) get together and none of us tend to finesse anything.

I am going to try a sherry as well as a bottle of Manoir D' Apreval Cidre I picked up today.

Nothing like being able to take one dinner and booze and turn it into two nights in a row.

Shaun

Edited November 8, 2005 by chuckyoufarley (log)

[M.X.Hassett]

Chuck, please post about how the dinner goes.

[JohnL]

I need some help here.

My friends and I are going to being having a dinner party this weekend.

I have been given the task to serve a classic French Onion soup.

Rather than going the regular route I have taken it upon myself to commit to Thomas Keller's Bouchon cookbook, 2-3 day, 8 hour stock, 6 hour Onion carmelization Zen patience endurance test.

I also have some intention to float a whisper of port on top of the crust.

That said I also need a libation to pair with the soup.

I have done some research that has produced suggestions of Merlot, Beaujolais Nouveau, a sherry, and what was suggested as the traditional accompaniment, a Dry Gewürztraminer or Pinot Gris.

My assumption is that the soup will be really sweet with all the time invested with the onions.

I also am going to go with a Gruyere for the crust.  I have a pretty decent relatively low pungent sample I’m going to use.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Shaun

←

I know this isn't wine, but when thinking about a really good onion soup--one pairing keeps forcing its way into my head--a really fine dark beer or Belgium Ale.

I can think of no wine that would, to me, work as well.

[Bubbalicious]

I know this isn't wine, but when thinking about a really good onion soup--one pairing keeps forcing its way into my head--a really fine dark beer or Belgium Ale.

I can think of no wine that would, to me, work as well.

←

I have to agree. I am by no means a Sommelier, but I did take all the classes to improve my abilities as a server. For the food and wine pairing segment of my final exam we were allowed to pair any alcoholic beverage with the given menus, up to two non-wine choices per menu.

We were given a rustic French menu where the second course was onion soup. I paired a great Ale from England called Traquair Jacobite Ale. It's a dark, chocolatey, rich beer with a medium body, light acidity and it is extremely well-balanced. The touch of sweetness on the finish would counter the saltiness of the soup nicely. I felt that the matching was inspired and I think my prof did as well.

I would be really interested to find out how the cider does with the soup. Please let us know.

[chuckyoufarley]

Howdy folks.

The dinner was a success.

The pairing was adequate

My assessment of what to pair with the soup would be nothing or whatever the hell you feel like drinking.

The Friday before the dinner I did a test run to suss out a match.

I tried a dry Alsatian Gwertz, which I thought was good but had too much Lychee and sweet happening in the nose ( although the wine was very dry and almost racy) to make a valid pairing.

I tried an Alsatian Pinot Gris. Which was a good wine with not a lot of complexity.

The wine almost had a NZ Sauv Blanc thing happening.

The wines moderate nose and balanced acidity paired well with the sweet richness of the soup. But overall it just did not have that seamless give and take a good wine pairing should create.

I tried the Cidre which was again close. The sweet and tart worked pretty good.

The pairing was more like interesting than a great pairing.

I then tried a Fischer Amber beer. An Alsatian beer that had pretty good maltiness without being sweet and not overly hoppy. I kind of preferred the beer but decided against serving it to the group during dinner. I assumed it might be slightly too pedestrian to serve beer after all the champagne the women were drinking during apps.

Also tried a good Manzanilla sherry which was a decent fit but like the beer just figured it was a little odd to serve to a few of the folks that were joining us for the first time.

Lastly at the dinner we had one guest bring a couple bottles of Beaujolais Nouveau.. Again a good but not great match.

So what I found out was that of all the stuff I tried (which were all high quality classic versions of the varietals) just did not seem to make a pairing that elevated the parts of the sum. If that makes any sense.

All of the booze played well together but did not have that rare give and take chemistry that collectively creates something completely new and thrilling.

That said, I am sure there is a great accompaniment to the soup. I just did not find it this weekend.

In the grand scheme of things it did not really matter.

The food was so over the top delicious that no one noticed.

Burning through 16 bottles of wine and champagne didnt hurt either

My buddy Jason (Sisefromm) is going to post some pics and I'm sure give a review of some sort if you are interested.

Sorry I couldn’t close the loop on this quandary.

I tried, just ask my punch drunk liver and kidneys.

Shaun

Edited November 14, 2005 by chuckyoufarley (log)

[Rebel Rose]

Great notes, Shaun. Makes me feel like I'm right there tasting along with you . . . looking forward to the pics, for sure!

[Brad Ballinger]

In the grand scheme of things it did not really matter.

←

Hey, if the wine didn't upstage the food for better or worse, I'd say it was a good match.

[JohnL]

Howdy folks.

The dinner was a success.

The pairing was adequate

My assessment of what to pair with the soup would be nothing or whatever the hell you feel like drinking.

The Friday before the dinner I did a test run to suss out a match.

I tried a dry Alsatian Gwertz, which I thought was good but had too much Lychee and sweet happening in the nose ( although the wine was very dry and almost racy)  to make a valid pairing.

I tried an Alsatian Pinot Gris.  Which was a good wine with not a lot of complexity.

The wine almost had a NZ Sauv Blanc thing happening.

The wines moderate nose and balanced acidity paired well with the sweet richness of the soup.  But overall it just did not have that seamless give and take a good wine pairing should create.

I tried the Cidre which was again close.  The sweet and tart worked pretty good.

The pairing was more like interesting than a great pairing.

I then tried a Fischer Amber beer.  An Alsatian beer that had pretty good maltiness without being sweet and not overly hoppy.  I kind of preferred the beer but decided against serving it to the group during dinner.  I assumed it might be slightly too pedestrian to serve beer after all the champagne the women were drinking during apps.

Also tried a good Manzanilla sherry which was a decent fit but like the beer just figured it was a little odd to serve to a few of the folks that were joining us for the first time.

Lastly at the dinner we had one guest bring a couple bottles of Beaujolais Nouveau..  Again a good but not great match.

So what I found out was that of all the stuff I tried (which were all high quality classic versions of the varietals) just did not seem to make a pairing that elevated the parts of the sum.  If that makes any sense. 

All of the booze played well together but did not have that rare give and take chemistry that collectively creates something completely new and thrilling.

That said, I am sure there is a great accompaniment to the soup.  I just did not find it this weekend.

In the grand scheme of things it did not really matter.

The food was so over the top delicious that no one noticed.

Burning through 16 bottles of wine and champagne didnt hurt either

My buddy Jason (Sisefromm) is going to post some pics and I'm sure give a review of some sort if you are interested.

Sorry I couldn’t close the loop on this quandary. 

I tried, just ask my punch drunk liver and kidneys.

Shaun

←

Well, just reading this was a lot of fun!

I can only imagine what the actual experience was like.

In the end, I think you discovered something that I have (and am still discovering).

The whole idea of food and wine is to have fun.

There are precious few examples of food and wine pairing perfection. That is where the wine and the food combine to create something greater than the sum of the two components.

Most often one finds a "peaceful" coexistance and enjoys the food and enjoys the wine.

[chuckyoufarley]

Hey Guys.

I just posted the pics of our dinner last saturday in the dinner section.

Figured it would be more applicable there.

Heres the link...

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...dpost&p=1059921

I aplogize for the clarity of some of the photos.

Freaking learning curve with new digi cam+many wines=Blurry photographer and Pictures.

Shaun

[SiseFromm]

As a satisfied participant of the dinner, I can only comment that my teeth were purple at the end of the evening. Big fat reds were sort of the wine of the evening, and I thought they worked perfectly with such obvious pairings as a shepard's pie with sticky veal reduction. We definitely rang in the new season with about as heavy a meal as I'll probably eat all year. That is, at least until my week in Yountville at the beginning of December.

The pork belly was out of sight and the French onion soup was the best I've had anywhere, period. I guess sweating onions for 8 hours pays off, a point to which I cheered as we raised our glasses.

Good times.

P.S., the gougeres were probably the highlight of the evening. I think I shoved about twenty of them into my gullet.