McDonald's looks to sell quality: the makeover

[dvs]

my reason for not eating at mcd's or any other fast food restaurant has nothing to do w/ the food at all, but w/ the fact that the companies that they buy their meats from treat their employees like utter shite. yes, fast food nation had an impact on me...

[jsolomon]

my reason for not eating at mcd's or any other fast food restaurant has nothing to do w/ the food at all, but w/ the fact that the companies that they buy their meats from treat their employees like utter shite. yes, fast food nation had an impact on me...

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Unfortunately, if you shop at a large grocery store, you're likely to find that all of the meat you purchase is from the same companies that McD's buys from... so you're feeding the same shite-treating beast.

Edit to add: I am waiting to see the pictures from the McDonald's Salt Mines.

Edited November 8, 2005 by jsolomon (log)

[Pontormo]

While I have yet to see the commercials in which McDonald's re-positions itself as a nurturing soul, let me draw your attention to the much aired current campaign of Pepsi's--or come to think of it--maybe Frito Lay's--advertising firm.

It is structured very much like the Kaiser-Permanente ads, including lists and reinforcing healthful behavior. It ends with a young, slim (of course) woman in a fashionably flippy-hemmed skirt buying something quote unquote responsible from a vending machine. I am sure someone else has seen this and can help me out.

Others have pointed out the relationship between Chipotle and Micky D's...and the grey area thus entered when more healthful ingredients nonetheless go into a highly caloric product.

And Megan, meant in a friendly way, you realize, but shudder!!! Go search for the thread Gifted Gourmet started on Jamie Oliver's school dinners. Look for my contribution, a link to Jamie's site. On that site, look for the amusing little "Dr. Demento" like cartoon in which you are taught what exactly goes on to make Chicken McNuggets.

Then, my advice, go eat a slightly charred sodium nitrate free hotdog*, with dressed avocado, oven-dried pear-shaped tomatoes, chopped red onion, strong mustard on a toasted whole wheat bun. Mango & banana yogurt shake on side with lots of freshly grated organic ginger added.

*I recommend Applegate as a brand.

And meanwhile, this is a nerdy coda in which the Grammar Police meets Freud. And I warn you, it's going to sound overdetermined and lame, but here goes:

Do note the heading for this thread and then the first post by Gifted Gourmet in which the language used by McDonald's is cited.

"Quality" is a noun, not an adjective, despite what has become common in media, business and in the medical establishment. McD's is careful to specify "top quality." Writing with equivalent grammatical accuracy when composing her title, Gifted Gourmet nonetheless does not specify the kind of quality the company wishes to sell.

To me the title of the thread is a linguistic allusion to the ambiguous meaning that the word "quality" acquires when it is used inaccurately as an adjective. It is almost like saying "McDonald's looks to sell quality food" without saying exactly what KIND of quality (poor, mediocre, appalling...) is intended. To me, this is a telling Freudian slip.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Pontormo (log)

[jsolomon]

And meanwhile, this is a nerdy coda in which the Grammar Police meets Freud.  And I warn you, it's going to sound overdetermined and lame, but here goes:

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Quality food grows profits.

Panda eats, shoots and leaves.

I hope you understand how difficult it was for me to type the first sentence.

[Megan Blocker]

And Megan, meant in a friendly way, you realize, but shudder!!!  Go search for the thread Gifted Gourmet started on Jamie Oliver's school dinners.  Look for my contribution, a link to Jamie's site.  On that site, look for the amusing little "Dr. Demento" like cartoon in which you are taught what exactly goes on to make Chicken McNuggets.

Then, my advice, go eat a slightly charred sodium nitrate free hotdog*, with dressed avocado, oven-dried pear-shaped tomatoes, chopped red onion, strong mustard on a toasted whole wheat bun.  Mango & banana yogurt shake on side with lots of freshly grated organic ginger added. 

*I recommend Applegate as a brand.

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Aaaaah, but - I can appreciate both the Applegate, beautifully dressed hot dog as well as the glorious nastiness that is the Chicken McNugget. I love all things equally.

We certainly shouldn't be feeding that stuff for school lunches, but if I, a consenting adult, choose to treat myself once in a while (and, typically, when my other choices are Domino's and Chili's), I think that's ok.

Is Jamie Oliver the Upton Sinclair of our time?

[Pontormo]

We all have our moments and twould be most hypocritical of me to play Church Lady meets Alice Waters to you, Megan. There are things I ingest when unfettered by a cold that I would not confess here.

But, seriously, do look at that cartoon.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Pontormo (log)

[Megan Blocker]

But, seriously, do look at that cartoon.

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Done and done! It's hilarious. I'm still going to eat McNuggets once in a while, but I will have to devise a way to avoid the carcinogenic antibiotics contained therein....

Here's a link!

Edited November 8, 2005 by Megan Blocker (log)

[Carrot Top]

Panda eats, shoots and leaves.

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There are some very tricky and extremely greedy pandas around in the world of human endeavor.

But who expects a panda to have any ethics? They are merely cute fuzzy bears.

So adorable. Sort of like Ronald Mcdonald.

[jsolomon]

Panda eats, shoots and leaves.

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There are some very tricky and extremely greedy pandas around in the world of human endeavor.

But who expects a panda to have any ethics? They are merely cute fuzzy bears.

So adorable. Sort of like Ronald Mcdonald.

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I don't know who expects them to have any ethics. All of those little black-eyed blighters eating up all of those bamboo shoots meant for My Americanized Chinese food! Fie, I say, fie!

[Carrot Top]

Yes indeedy. The Panda Within Us.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Back to the topic at hand in this thread, please?

The cartoon from the ajc.com is perfect for this discussion ...

quality and McDonald's an oxymoron?

[Carrot Top]

I am sorry to speak the way I do (often metaphorically) for it might seem as if it were not connected to the topic.

Therefore I will attempt to explain the connection.

jsolomon spoke of pandas in reference to a post that spoke (again indirectly but linked) of how McDonalds makes pretense to being something that it is *not*.

McDonalds is selling "quality".

The claim made in the post was that their form of "quality" is a false claim.

The word "quality" then was linked in jsolomon's post to the concept of making money.

The word "panda" (being part of his post) could therefore be guessed to be a metaphor for "something that eats without ethical thought".

My posts using the word "panda" were written using the original metaphoric comment.

Sorry if it was confusing.

Standard rhetorical form does allow for the use of metaphor. The questions raised in attempting to find "truth" in whatever claims are being made (in this case by McDonalds in its "makeover") are often those of credibility of source. It was this credibility of source that I was discussing.

[jsolomon]

Back to the topic at hand in this thread, please?

The cartoon from the ajc.com is perfect for this discussion ...

quality and McDonald's an oxymoron?

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Silly question.

How come we wax poetic over fleur de sel (salt) and beef marrow (fat) and we call salty fries fried in beef tallow crap?

Someone please 'splain. McDonald's does very well what it sets out to do and that is sell food that tastes good enough for people to purchase again, and not get anyone sick with food poisoning.

They do this by strict controls on what they sell and how they keep it.

By that standard, those people really do quite an amazing job. Millions of servings per year with a tremendously low rate of illness/dissatisfaction. Granted, they have chosen to pick the low fruit by choosing foods that are dried or frozen generally. But still. They do an enviable job.

So, back to my initial question. What is our disconnect?

[Rebel Rose]

Actually, I've *heard* that Panda joke before. It's not a "metaphor" for anything. It's from a fairly gross (but funny) sex joke.

There are some very tricky and extremely greedy pandas around in the world of human endeavor.

Well you don't want to meet one in a bar!

And pretty much the issue of "whether or not others should eat it" has been done to death in other threads. Isn't the issue of this thread why a huge chain like McDonald's would be undertaking a makeover?

So back to the subject--at least it's heartening that McDonald's has become aware of consumer desire for assurances about quality, organic food, etc. I'd like to think that means that a ground swell of consumerism awareness is definitely having some effect. Unfortunately, as in most of the organic labeling in groceries, much of the hype and language will still be misleading but appealing to a large segment of the population who really just want their fast food and want to believe that it's good for them. Like eating a submarine sandwich for every meal will actually cause you to lose weight.

The reality is more likely that McDon's is feeling a slight downward pinch in revenues after the Supersize documentary, recent news bites about carcinogens in french fries, and competition from firms like Subway and new chains like Burgerville, which recently got written up in the Slow Foods magazine.

[Pontormo]

Actually, jsolomon's reference was one step removed from the joke: a reference to a recent book on grammar and punctuation that was a bestseller in the UK. Seems we both are prickly when it comes to usage and grammar even though I for one do not mind dropping a pronoun or an article here and there when I am writing informally. (Where's *Deborah*, I wonder?)

But getting back to the topic at hand, I would like to call for the assistance of anyone who plans to watch television tonight to help me out on the ad campaign that I tried to recall in my original post here.

I tried using google in vain, although I did learn about the relationship between Frito-Lay and Pepsi.

Meanwhile, since Gifted Gourmet has brought our attention not just to McDonald's but also a current trend in promoting fast food and re-fashioning the image of notorious companies so that they seem more socially responsible, do check out the company site for Frito-Lay:

Good Fun for the Fun of It.

And while you're watching television, keep in mind what Fast Food Nation tells us about the gobs of money McDonald's devotes to advertising.

Anyone care to disconstruct the current ad that places four Desirable Demographiques in a car, three dudes and one like girl? "CheekON!" they exclaim, one by one. Megan, this promotes your beloved nuggets, by the way.

Discuss among yourselves. I am going out to get my hair done since I am just too aged to wear a knit skull cap every day of the year.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Pontormo (log)

[Carrot Top]

Actually, I've *heard* that Panda joke before.  It's not a "metaphor" for anything.  It's from a fairly gross (but funny) sex joke.

There are some very tricky and extremely greedy pandas around in the world of human endeavor.

Well you don't want to meet one in a bar!

←

I guess it is possible that one person's gross and funny sex joke is another person's metaphor.

Nope, don't want to meet anyone in a bar. Not even if they own stock in McDonalds.

[Megan Blocker]

Actually, jsolomon's reference was one step removed from the joke: a reference to a recent book on grammar and punctuation that was a bestseller in the UK.  Seems we both are prickly when it comes to usage and grammar even though I for one do not mind dropping a pronoun or an article here and there when I am writing informally.  (Where's *Deborah*, I wonder?)

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As a fellow grammar nut, I would like to point out that Eats, Shoots and Leaves was a best-seller here in the States, too! It's very exciting to see my countrymen and -women embracing their predominant tongue in this way. I just wish I saw more of it in some of the emails that fly back and forth at the office!

Anyone care to disconstruct the current ad that places four Desirable Demographiques in a car, three dudes and one like girl? "CheekON!" they exclaim, one by one. Megan, this promotes your beloved nuggets, by the way.?)

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I'll have to be on the lookout for that one, Pontormo...I've been known to get a bit cheeky myself, though not usually on the subject of McNuggets. Today is an exception.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Megan Blocker (log)

[Rebel Rose]

I, too, have seen the book listed. But since I generally know where to put my commas, I haven't read it. The joke after which it is apparently named, however, is a pretty good one. (It's a very old joke.) Only obliquely related to dining, however.

So does anyone here have any insights into corporate marketing?

[jsolomon]

buy low, sell high?

[Carrot Top]

So does anyone here have any insights into corporate marketing?

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It is the Panda Within Us.

[Carrot Top]

Corporate marketing is responsible for many of the decisions we each make each day.

In a subliminal sense.

And it is responsible for which products are even *available* to us in the marketplace.

Corporate marketing is responsible for the fact that the book "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" is sitting on a shelf of my bookcase.

But corporate marketing is ultimately not responsible for what I eat. Or read. I am.

[jsolomon]

And corporations were, not so long ago, individual people in a society.

It comes full circle.

But, GroupThink doesn't always explain individual choices, like why to be pedantic in one area, but not another.

So, I'm begging my previous question.

Pomme frites = good

french fries = bad?

B.S. Why?

[Pontormo]

I am not sure it's that simple anymore, though, you've put the Snob issue into perspective quite succinctly.

Look at the concession stand that Danny Meyer and his partner set up now that USC and GT are venerable institutions.

There's a cache to certain fast foods these days that isn't utterly Camp or irony.

We learn to rationalize what we crave no matter what time of the month, and there's a certain snob appeal to the bad food foodies want.

Then there's the Julia Child factor. Her comments regarding everything in moderation apply here, too.

Me, I prefer the fries at Johnny Rocket. The ones at McDonald's leave an unpleasant aftertaste.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Pontormo (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Corporate marketing is responsible for many of the decisions we each make each day.

In a subliminal sense.

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We learn to rationalize what we crave no matter what time of the month, and there's a certain snob appeal to the bad food foodies want.

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Is there any support whatsoever in the real world for these astonishingly sweeping claims?

jsolomon is onto something. I grab my daughter's McFries because they're tasty. Not because of "subliminal" messages, whatever those are, nor because there's "snob appeal."

McD's has a great marketing strategy: their salty, fatty food tastes good.

[Megan Blocker]

Pomme frites = good

french fries = bad?

B.S.  Why?

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Snobbery? Preference? I mean, Mickey D's fries are up there, but I've had some at bistros (though not, as has been widely noted, at Meyers' Shake Shack) that blow them out of the water.

That said, I live a block from a McDonald's (which is actually odd for Manhattan - as opposed to living a block from a Starbucks or a Tasti-D-Lite), and will buy a large fries as the "frites" piece of steak frites - easier and pretty much tastier than what I can make in my kitchen without getting monstrous amounts of grease everywhere. Which, considering the size of my apartment (grease in the kitchen means, well, grease everywhere), is a big plus.

I have no problem doing or admitting this.

Do I think fast food is great all the time, for everyone? No. Do I think we should strive to make it the exception rather than the rule? Yes. But that doesn't mean there isn't a place for it...

Me, I prefer the fries at Johnny Rocket. The ones at McDonald's leave an unpleasant aftertaste.

And, so, to each his own.