Which glass?

[Jamie B]

So we are making sours at work, and a new 'tender and I are having a debate over which glass to use. Or selection is limited as we only have 4 different types of wine, and one champagne, highball, old-fashioned (rocks), fizz, and cocktail glass to choose from (all crystal).

I say put sours into a cocktail glass as every sour glass that I've ever seen has a stem.

He says that every sour he's ever had has been in a rocks-style glass.

The only reason that I don't immediately veto him is because he is a bartender of some renown, and I value his opinion and knowledge.

Given our limited glassware selection, which glass do you think is better for sours: cocktail or rocks? (Don't say get proper glassware either, please. I'm considering that option, but space is limited)

[Alchemist]

Which ever it looks better in. I would guess that the washline will look healthier in the cocktail glass. Does he have ice in his sours? And do you have egg white in your sours? I like my sours with eggwhite, and no ice to damage the intensity. I like my fizzes the same way, w/egg/w/o ice.

[cdh]

I have no grounding in the history or traditions, but I think I'd prefer a sour served in a rocks glass. Sours aren't meant to be drunk as quickly as drinks served in cocktail glasses are... A sour in a cocktail glass would probably warm up faster, no? Cocktail glasses are thinner and allow for more heat transfer, don't they.

I'd vote for the glass that kept it coldest after 15 minutes. Experiment and figure out which one that is.

[Jamie B]

We occasionally add egg whites to our sours, depending on which sour.

We never add ice (unless requested by a guest).

As for heat....the hand touches the stem and not the recepticle of the cocktail glass, and as there is no ice, and the glasses are crystal and therefore quite thin, I would assume that the drink would get warmer in the rocks glass faster, due to heat coming from the hand. Having said that, I have not put a thermometer in the drinks after regular intervals to find out if this is actual fact and not just conjecture.

[slkinsey]

I think it very much depends on the Sour. Or perhaps it depends on what we are calling a Sour. In its most basic form, a Sour is simply base spirit, citrus juice and sugar. When we start branching out by using a liqueur in place of the sugar as a sweetener, I think it becomes more than "just" a Sour. Thus, for example, Gary Regan's classification of the formula base spirit, citrus juice and Cointreau as a "New Orleans Sour" and so on.

In general, I don't care for straight Sours with ice in a rocks glass. I prefer them either in a cocktail glass or in a highball glass with no ice. Like Alchemist, I usually prefer straight Sours with egg white. If the sour is going to be fizzed, on the other hand, I'll take it straight up in a highball/fizz glass.

I've never had a problem with cocktails in either style of glass getting cold, but then again I've never been known to hold a cocktail for 15 minutes either. The solution to that is to make the drink in an appropriate size.

[Jamie B]

I think we are losing track of the original question, which was, given our limited selection of glassware, which glass is better suited, historically and practically, for a sour: our cocktail or rocks glass?

We are considered one of the best restaurants in Canada, and our cocktail program is based on obscure (and not so obscure) pre-prohibition cocktails, along with some originals. We want to provide the best cocktail we can, with the limitations that we have (such as limited space for glassware, hence the limited selection)

We also want to have consistency amongst our drinks (ie same glassware). As we both respect the opinions of the people in this forum (and he has met a few of you), your help is appreciated.

It is also my understanding that traditionally a sour glass always had a stem, hence my stand on serving it in the closest thing that we have to a sour glass in the restaurant: the cocktail glass.

The two sour drinks on the autumn drink list are:

Rum Sour

2 oz Haitian rum

1 oz lemon juice

tsp simple

2 dahses Fee’s aromatic bitters

and

Apricot Stone Sour

1.5 oz Spanish brandy

.5 oz apricot brandy

.5 oz each: fresh lemon & orange juice

We do make other sours by request or in the other seasons menus that have egg white in them.

Fizzes are served in a fizz glass, sans ice.

Pisco sours are served in a Champagne flute, sans ice.

[slkinsey]

If you're going ultra old-school, I'd serve sours in a champagne flute -- preferably one that does not curve back inwards. Click here to see a picture of a "sour glass." This is a lot closer to a champagne glass than a cocktail glass. If you're serving the Pisco Sour in a champagne flute, I'd stick with that for all the Sours.

[Jamie B]

Thanks for your input Samuel, I can live with that solutiion and will see if my colleague can as well. I WAS hoping to hear from a larger base of people though.........

[slkinsey]

I WAS hoping to hear from a larger base of people though.........

Well, I'd guess it's because the "sours in a rocks glass or a cocktail glass" question is such a no-brainer. If that's the only choice, clearly it's the cocktail glass. A rocks glass implies, well. . . rocks.

It's like asking "do Martinis go in a rocks glass or a cocktail glass." There are, of course, large parts of North America in which an order for a Martini will most often get you something with ice in a rocks glass. Heck, an order for a Margarita in just about anywhere in the world will get you a choice between a cup of slush or a drink on the rocks, even though this drink belongs shaken and strained into a cocktail glass. And don't even get me started on the Daiquiri -- both form and pronunciation. So I can see how someone could come to think of a Sour as a drink on the rocks.

My remarks earlier about "straight" Sours as opposed to New Orleans Sours and other kinds of Sours that are sweetened with liqueur was to say that I don't necessarily feel that the "expanded" Sours go in the same kind of glass. Just to think of the New Orleans Sours, for example, the Sidecar, Margarita, Crusta, Cosmopolitan, etc. do not go in a sour glass IMO. In fact, they don't all go in the same kind of glass at all. I like the Sidecar and Margarita in a cocktail glass, I like the Crusta in a fancy goblet because it displays the lemon rind better -- and, of course, the Cosmopolitan has to go in a 1980s period cocktail glass with a fluorescent pink stem in the shape of a lightning bolt (preferably plastic).

[eje]

Thanks for your input Samuel, I can live with that solutiion and will see if my colleague can as well. I WAS hoping to hear from a larger base of people though.........

←

Well, OK, I'll add a comment. I took a look at your MSN web page and noticed that you serve your fizzes in what I think is called a frappe glass. Not a bartender or expert; but, I think those might be a nice mid-point between the v-shaped cocktail and champagne glass.

Like Sam, I don't think the highball or old-fashioned glasses are appropriate, unless you are serving your sours on the rocks.

I know double whiskies and the Sazerac are traditionally served in an old-fashioned glass; but, I'm struggling to think of other "up" drinks which might be.

-Erik

edited for spelling

Edited October 21, 2005 by eje (log)

[Jamie B]

I WAS hoping to hear from a larger base of people though.........

-- and, of course, the Cosmopolitan has to go in a 1980s period cocktail glass with a fluorescent pink stem in the shape of a lightning bolt (preferably plastic).

←

You can get specialized Cosmo glasses!!!! Sign me up! And plastic no less. (As if I don't cringe enough when I see Cosmo on a drink chit)

I just hoped for a larger response so that when I told my bartender that the world agreed with me, and that sours should go in stemmed-ware (even though the wrong stemmed-ware), I would have more than one person on my side. Not to belittle the weight of your opinion Samuel. It's just numbers are always more effective (well usually anyway)...

I think we'll go with the Champagne flute; it looks more elegant, and people won't confuse the drinks for "martinis".

On the martini note, I'm thinking of making the servers ring in a Kangaroo when they want a vodka "martini" and a Montgomery when they want a dry gin martini. Let the education of Vancouver begin!!

Edited October 21, 2005 by Jamie B (log)

[Bubbalicious]

History aside, I'd much rather drink a sour out of a rocks glass.

I find most champagne flutes require an awkward tipping back

of the head to finish the drink off. It's also a little less girly-drink

looking. When you're heading to the table with a tray full of drinks

for a bunch of guys it's always a little uncomfortable dropping

off the colourful frothy drink in the frou-frou glass.

And then there's the fact that the stem is gonna get broken

more often than a rocks glass would.

Let us know how this turns out.

Thanks.