Q & A with Pastry Chef Pichet Ong

[tan319]

I probably first heard of Pastry Chef Pichet Ong's work through a New York Times review that mentioned his desserts at 'rm', Rick Moonens seafood-focused restaurant. It was 2002, and the idea of a "pleasant baked doughnut, glistening with sugar, its hole filled with concord grape jelly," coming with "several slices of intense aged Gouda," not only intrigued me, it made my mouth water!

But it was two years later when Pichet, formerly an architect as well as a savory chef, joined Jean George Vongerichten s restaurant group, that he exploded onto the scene, conceiving and executing the dessert menus for both for the Chinese influenced '66' and the Thai street food with a flair concept 'Spice Market'. A four-week stint in the prestigious New York Times series "The Chef" followed and there were no doubts.

Pichet Ong had arrived.

Some links for your perusal...

Pichet Ong Website

Pichet Ong Asian Puff Pastry Demo Thread

The ChefNYTimes/Melissa Clark article

The ChefNYTimes/Melissa Clark article

The ChefNYTimes/Melissa Clark article

The ChefNYTimes/Melissa Clark article

StarchefsRising Star article/recipe

Art Culinaire article

Having added a 'Starchefs Rising Star' award along with a 2005 Pastry Art & Design Magazines '10 Best' award this year, it's with GREAT pleasure we introduce Chef Pichet Ong in the inaugural Pastry & Baking Forum 'FOCUS'!!!

Welcome, Pichet!

[tan319]

Hi Pichet.

A couple of things for you....

You've moved on from Spice Market?

Are you thinking of opening a dessert restaurant or bar?

Also, something I've always wondered about is how production is handled when an upscale-ish restaurant is doing 400 to 700 covers a day, which is a number I think I've read for Spice Market.

How did you approach that?

[Wendy DeBord]

Just briefly I'd like to mention that Chef Ong has graciously provided us with a demonstration thread on Asian Puff Pastry. Please look here to view it. Any questions or comments you have on his Demo thread should be posted on that thread. For anyone who missed our newly pinned thread on the top of our Forum, please look here for a complete explaination of what a Pastry & Baking Forum FOCUS thread is.

I too want to welcome Chef Ong, thank-you for sharing with us!

I need to tell you that I keep the article you wrote for Food Arts July/August 2004 entitled "Sugar and Spice: Is Everything Nice?" on my computor table to view daily. I try to read as much as I can on pastry chefs and following the happenings in our field. I have to say that that specific article stands out to me as the most true and echoing thoughts I've read in print from another pastry chef. It bonds me to you instantly.

I wish I could reproduce the whole article here for everyone to read, but I can't because of copy right issues. For those of you that do subscribe to Food Arts I hope you'll look up that article. For those that don't I'd like to highlight a couple qoutes.........

"Yet it now seems that pastry chefs are considered to be of less stature then their executive chef peers."

" I believe it's within our power to change this for ourselves, and for the generations of pastry chefs to come, through unwavering commitment to the daily practice and refinement of pastry artistry."

"We must also deal with today's economic realities. As a result of the business downturn over the past few years, some restaurants have opted to eliminate the pastry chef position and have left desserts in the hands of the chef de cusine."

"We must create a network of industry friends, have specialized public relations professionals at our disposal, find sources of inspiration, and stay on top of our game by attending events where we can learn, improve, and share ourcraft."

"We must continue to build and nurture this family on the international, national, and local levels to ensure that our careers and our creations achieve and maintain the critical and economic success they deserve."

You wrote that in 2004 and here in 2005 I see that you really do mean those words and do live them too. I take guidance from that, thank-you.

Did you set out with a clear cut plan/design for your career or has your current dirrection (writing a book and opening your own place) developed by accident and circumstance? I ask that out of my own selfishness/curiosity as a middle aged Pastry Chef wondering where my future should go.

[chiantiglace]

Pichet, I ws wondering what your thoughts were on the advnacement in Asian and French fusion among the pastry world.

Quite honestly I would never think that the Asian spice and rawness would ever do well in dessert, But I was wrong. I too have taken a strong interest in learning more about Asian flare.

Do you still think we have a long way to go with the blending?

[Pichet Ong]

I probably first heard of Pastry Chef Pichet Ong's work through a New York Times review that mentioned his desserts at 'rm', Rick Moonens seafood-focused restaurant. It was 2002, and the idea of a "pleasant baked doughnut, glistening with sugar, its hole filled with concord grape jelly," coming with "several slices of intense aged Gouda," not only intrigued me, it made my mouth water!

But it was two years later when Pichet, formerly an architect as well as a savory chef, joined Jean George Vongerichten s restaurant group, that he exploded onto the scene, conceiving and executing the dessert menus for both for the Chinese influenced '66' and the Thai street food with a flair concept 'Spice Market'. A four-week stint in the prestigious New York Times series "The Chef" followed and there were no doubts.

Pichet Ong had arrived.

Some links for your perusal...

Pichet Ong Website

Pichet Ong Asian Puff Pastry Demo Thread

The ChefNYTimes/Melissa Clark article

The ChefNYTimes/Melissa Clark article

The ChefNYTimes/Melissa Clark article

The ChefNYTimes/Melissa Clark article

StarchefsRising Star article/recipe

Art Culinaire article

Having added a 'Starchefs Rising Star' award along with a 2005 Pastry Art & Design Magazines '10 Best' award this year, it's with GREAT pleasure we introduce Chef Pichet Ong in the inaugural Pastry & Baking Forum 'FOCUS'!!!

Welcome, Pichet!

←

Yes I have moved on from Spice Market. I am in the process of setting up my own shop in the city. However, I continue to hold a position there as a consultant, working with the staff there to provide assistance with anything they need including seasonal menu changes and new items. This also extends to 66 restaurant, where the "asian puff pastry" is going to be featured on a new fall dessert.

Originally, I had planned on opening a dessert emporium, with a dessert dining and retail shop that features desserts to go and sweets-related paraphernalia such as books, magazines, tools, and confections from around the world. However, after months of legal negotiations, I was advised to let the space go because the landlord will not budge on certain terms, in particular, a standing room area. She did not want customers hovering inside or outside the shop for fear that it would disturb the peace and quiet of the neighborhood. I have to admit that having crowds is exactly what I had in mind for the shop. Who wouldn't? Obviously, the chemistry of landlord-tenant isn't right. Hence I had to look at other spaces. But now I'm also thinking of maybe something small.

Spice Market averages about 700 covers a day, with some days approaching 4-digit number of covers. That sounds like an awful lot. The way I set up the program is to keep the menu fairly small (8-9 items), have more work is done during daytime production, with simple quick pick-ups so that the desserts go out fast. Ice-creams and sherbets, for instance, which are very popular after an "asian" meal, are prepacked in Chinese take-out boxes and ready to go.

Rice pudding, which is assembled twice a day, is kept near the tabletop oven, so the ambiant heat keeps it warm throughout service.

[Pichet Ong]

Just briefly I'd like to mention that Chef Ong has graciously provided us with a demonstration thread on Asian Puff Pastry. Please look here to view it. Any questions or comments you have on his Demo thread should be posted on that thread. For anyone who missed our newly pinned thread on the top of our Forum, please look here for a complete explaination of what a Pastry & Baking Forum FOCUS thread is.

I too want to welcome Chef Ong, thank-you for sharing with us!

I need to tell you that I keep the article you wrote for Food Arts July/August 2004 entitled "Sugar and Spice: Is Everything Nice?" on my computor table to view daily. I try to read as much as I can on pastry chefs and following the happenings in our field. I have to say that that specific article stands out to me as the most true and echoing thoughts I've read in print from another pastry chef. It bonds me to you instantly.

I wish I could reproduce the whole article here for everyone to read, but I can't because of copy right issues. For those of you that do subscribe to Food Arts I hope you'll look up that article. For those that don't I'd like to highlight a couple qoutes.........

"Yet it now seems that pastry chefs are considered to be of less stature then their executive chef peers."

" I believe it's within our power to change this for ourselves, and for the generations of pastry chefs to come, through unwavering commitment to the daily practice and refinement of pastry artistry."

"We must also deal with today's economic realities. As a result of the business downturn over the past few years, some restaurants have opted to eliminate the pastry chef position and have left desserts in the hands of the chef de cusine."

"We must create a network of industry friends, have specialized public relations professionals at our disposal, find sources of inspiration, and stay on top of our game by attending events where we can learn, improve, and share ourcraft."

"We must continue to build and nurture this family on the international, national, and local levels to ensure that our careers and our creations achieve and maintain the critical and economic success they deserve."

You wrote that in 2004 and here in 2005 I see that you really do mean those words and do live them too. I take guidance from that, thank-you.

Did you set out with a clear cut plan/design for your career or has your current dirrection (writing a book and opening your own place) developed by accident and circumstance? I ask that out of my own selfishness/curiosity as a middle aged Pastry Chef wondering where my future should go.

←

Wendy: thank you so much for your kind words about me and for including all the quotes from my article in Food Arts. The whole purpose of the article is to share information and experience with others. I hope to do just the same with eGullet, which is new, and very exciting, to me.

I'd like to think that I have a clear cut plan for my career when I started out 15 years ago. However, introspect, I find that a lot of things that happen in my life also run on its own natural course. I discovered cooking as a career sort of by accident. I first volunteered for Project Open Hand while in between architectural jobs in San Francisco, which led to a full time position. After reading Harold McGee's book on food science, curiosity led me through various baking jobs in the bay area, and eventually landing at La Folie as pastry chef. Again out of curiosity, I spent 7 years as a line cook in many restaurants from California to Boston to New York. Recently, I met my partner in life and decided I had to take a "day job," preferably also one where I don't smell like fish after work. I then went back to my original passion in cooking, which is in dessert-making.

So you see, circumstance has led me to the next step in my career. I have to say that I am very fortunate to be surrounded by friends and peers who are very supportive of me and my work. While awaiting for my first break, I knocked on many doors including Sam Mason and Vicki Wells, who let me trail in their kitchens. I spent a day with Johnny Iuzzini, then at Daniel, who ironically a few years later, taught me how to make fortune cookies when I started to develop them for the opening of 66.

Recently at Spice Market, I had the opportunity to develop recipes for Jean Georges Vongerichten's and Mark Bittman's upcoming book on Asian recipes. It was there that I met Genevieve Ko (who worked with Mark on encyclopaedically phenomenal The Best Recipes in the World, just released this week) who tested recipes with me at the restaurant. Three dozen recipes later, we realized that there is a need for a book for "Asian theme" in American desserts, so we wrote up a proposal. Together with Pate Eng, photographer to many chefs' works in Art Culinaire, we took the proposal to agent Janis Donnaud who sold the book to Harper Collins in a very short time. I guess you could say the book came out of a natural circumstance too.

[tan319]

I love the idea of the serendipity of it all.

Working with Sam Mason, Vicki Wells, Johnny Iuzzini... All chefs whom I admire from afar, whose styles are what some would say 'vastly different' from each others.

Have any particular methods or ideas had a lasting effect on your own work?

Also, the idea of pre packing ice creams and sorbets in those containers is really awesome. I might have to borrow and elaborate on that idea!

BTW: When I decided to make the switch from savory to sweet, it was the shallots that were ruining my life

Thanks in advance!

[Wendy DeBord]

We have alot of mid-life career changers that are members here, as well as several culinary students. Can you give them any advice on how they can stand out from similar applicants and actually land those rare jobs in the better/or well known career building kitchens?

P.S Will your Asian Puff Pastry recipe be published in your book? Will we see alot of new recipes from you or will you be saving those your new shop?

[Pichet Ong]

I love the idea of the serendipity of it all.

Working with Sam Mason, Vicki Wells, Johnny Iuzzini... All  chefs  whom I admire from afar, whose styles are what some would say 'vastly different' from each others.

Have any particular methods or ideas had a lasting effect on your own work?

Also, the idea of pre packing ice creams and sorbets in those containers is really awesome. I might have to borrow and elaborate on that idea!

BTW: When I decided to make the switch from savory to sweet, it was the shallots that was ruining my life

Thanks in advance!

←

I admire all three tremendously as well. One particular common thread among them is that they all make desserts with a great personal sense of style. They work with ideas or concepts that are very personal. I think in doing that, not only does it makes it easier to explain your craft but also your work become honest executions, clean and clearcut. In creating my own desserts, I apply this same principle.

The smell of onions can't be as bad garlic. Caramelized shallots is actually used in many Asian sweet snack recipes.

[Pichet Ong]

We have alot of mid-life career changers that are members here, as well as several culinary students. Can you give them any advice on how they can stand out from similar applicants and actually land those rare jobs in the better/or well known career building kitchens?

P.S Will your Asian Puff Pastry recipe be published in your book? Will we see alot of new recipes from you or will you be saving those your new shop?

←

Yes the Asian Puff Pastry recipe will be in the book. The recipe will be used with a peanut and maltose filling. Maltose is a thick Chinese syrup commonly used in to sweeten sweet and savory dishes. Imagine a golden syrup that hardens at room temperature. Have you ever had candied walnuts served in a Chinese restaurant alongside maybe prawns doused in mayonaisse made with condensed milk? They are yummy.

The book is actually intended to chronicle the past 4 years of my work focusing on Asian ingredients and technique that can be applied to American dessert making. Many "asianized" American classics will be covered, including one of my all time favorite dessert: Banana Cream Pie (made with rice flour pie dough for that extra crunch) as well as more esoteric or unusual recipes such as taro Dough and Asian Puff Pastry. By the way, the same dough is also used to make Dan Taht, the classic egg custard tarts served in many dim sum restaurants and Chinese bake shops.

[Pichet Ong]

We have alot of mid-life career changers that are members here, as well as several culinary students. Can you give them any advice on how they can stand out from similar applicants and actually land those rare jobs in the better/or well known career building kitchens?

P.S Will your Asian Puff Pastry recipe be published in your book? Will we see alot of new recipes from you or will you be saving those your new shop?

←

Yes the Asian Puff Pastry recipe will be in the book. The recipe will be used with a peanut and maltose filling. Maltose is a thick Chinese syrup commonly used in to sweeten sweet and savory dishes. Imagine a golden syrup that hardens at room temperature. Have you ever had candied walnuts served in a Chinese restaurant alongside maybe prawns doused in mayonaisse made with condensed milk? They are yummy.

The book is actually intended to chronicle the past 4 years of my work focusing on Asian ingredients and technique that can be applied to American dessert making. Many "asianized" American classics will be covered, including one of my all time favorite dessert: Banana Cream Pie (made with rice flour pie dough for that extra crunch) as well as more esoteric or unusual recipes such as taro Dough and Asian Puff Pastry. By the way, the same dough is also used to make Dan Taht, the classic egg custard tarts served in many dim sum restaurants and Chinese bake shops.

←

When seeking out jobs, while it is imperative to choose to work in well known career building restaurants, one must also remember consider the kind of food they like and the kind of chef they admire. For me, I always believe that good cooking start of with good ingredients. Hence my first step was to choose restaurants that are ingredient driven. For me, it was also a second career (or third if i were to include my short lived career in acting as a child, but we won't go there now) and hence, i sought out to work with (or associate with) chefs who had similar background and experiences. Similarly, if you seek out these like-minded chefs, your resume will stand out. I myself am aware that I respond to resumes that reflect past experiences in other fields. Having to work with a lot of esoteric or unusual ingredients, I also respond to workers who is interested in alternative sugars and other seasonings. Perhaps that's why I get a lot of resumes from Natural Gourmet Cooking School.

I also highly recommend trailing for a full work day. A lot can be discovered between newly met people in 8 hours, most importantly, concerning communication. I think you can get more out of a job from a chef who you can communicate clearly with and relate to. And remember, this takes time. That's how a job becomes career building.

[Wendy DeBord]

Chef Ong, you obviously draw a great deal from your Asian background into your work. Can I ask where else you look for inspiration and ideas? Are you a avid reader of baking books and or magazines? If so, which books or magazines?

[aidensnd2]

Spice Market averages about 700 covers a day, with some days approaching 4-digit number of covers.  That sounds like an awful lot.  The way I set up the program is to keep the menu fairly small (8-9 items), have more work is done during daytime production, with simple quick pick-ups so that the desserts go out fast. 

What percentage of the covers typically order dessert?

Thanks

[Pichet Ong]

Chef Ong, you obviously draw a great deal from your Asian background into your work. Can I ask where else you look for inspiration and ideas? Are you a avid reader of baking books and or magazines? If so, which books or magazines?

←

I am an avid reader of anything food related. I subscribe to practically every major national magazine and newspaper. The purpose of reading them, however, is not so much for inspiration but to keep abreast of what is out there. And because I enjoy eating out and travelling a lot, I always check out magazines with restaurant coverage.

For recipe-oriented cookbooks, I sometimes refer to the Fanny Farmer cookbook or Cooks Illustrated's Best Recipes. The biblical collection of Beranbaum, the King Arthur Flour books, and Pierre Herme's books on dessert and chocolates are pertinent for any pastry chef. Recently, I enjoyed looking at the Duby's Wild Sweets and Gordon Ramsey's Just Desserts. The Secrets of Baking by Sherry Yard is simultaneously good looking and good reading, with many excellent tips on baking.

[Pichet Ong]

Spice Market averages about 700 covers a day, with some days approaching 4-digit number of covers.  That sounds like an awful lot.  The way I set up the program is to keep the menu fairly small (8-9 items), have more work is done during daytime production, with simple quick pick-ups so that the desserts go out fast. 

What percentage of the covers typically order dessert?

Thanks

←

About 60% of covers order dessert at Spice Market.

[Brioche57]

I also highly recommend trailing for a full work day.

How I wished I had known/done this when I was still interested in working professionally.

Great advice Chef Ong!

[Wendy DeBord]

Do you have any advice for others in how they can increase their sales? I've heard many pastry chefs mention that it's up to their wait staff to sell dessert. If the wait staff likes something, they sell it. Sometimes the waitstaff aren't dessert eaters, sometimes their not thinking about how increased sales will increase their tip. Sometimes you feel like your fighting a battle with the wait staff to get them to sell your work..........and the pastry chef always loses.

We've had many discussions on that topic here!

How do you motivate wait staff that aren't selling desserts? How liberal are you with feeding the wait staff your items? What can a pastry chef do to get unmotivated staff interested and always selling desserts?

Personally on my jobs I try to maintain a freindly relationship with the wait staff. I ALWAY let them taste anything and everything whenever and however much they want (usually they eat like birds so that isn't a problem). I'll talk to them about my items as long as they'll listen...... But sometimes I feel like selling desserts is a battle. Often I think we give out too generous of portions for our entree's and that ruins their hunger for dessert. But then I've experienced working in places that will run contests for the wait staff, like whomever sells the most desserts for the month wins (usually a couple extra bucks). The frustrating thing is, I've had sales really jump when they've run those types of competitions. Then they drop when the contest if over. Whats a chef to do?

[Wendy DeBord]

I was researching an answer for someone asking about Pacojet recipes and in my search I stumped upon a previous conversation we had this past May. Here's the link to it. In reading that thread I starting thinking about what Bond Girl wrote as the last line in your Demo thread

Pichet Ong will be a guest on the pastry and baking board. He hopes to change the perception of pastry to show that it's not just about desserts.

←

Chef Ong, you've got many pastry chefs reading you here. Can you shed more light onto this topic. I think many of us have the interest in savory and crossing over in ingredient uses........but I think we run into on the job problems that hinder us from doing more savory work. Then you add into the mix the public's perception of what they expect a dessert to consist of.........how can the average pastry chef conquer this?

[Pichet Ong]

Do you have any advice for others in how they can increase their sales? I've heard many pastry chefs mention that it's up to their wait staff to sell dessert. If the wait staff likes something, they sell it. Sometimes the waitstaff aren't dessert eaters, sometimes their not thinking about how increased sales will increase their tip. Sometimes you feel like your fighting a battle with the wait staff to get them to sell your work..........and the pastry chef always loses.

We've had many discussions on that topic here!

How do you motivate wait staff that aren't selling desserts? How liberal are you with feeding the wait staff your items? What can a pastry chef do to get unmotivated staff interested and always selling desserts?

Personally on my jobs I try to maintain a freindly relationship with the wait staff. I ALWAY let them taste anything and everything whenever and however much they want (usually they eat like birds so that isn't a problem). I'll talk to them about my items as long as they'll listen...... But sometimes I feel like selling desserts is a battle. Often I think we give out too generous of portions for our entree's and that ruins their hunger for dessert. But then I've experienced working in places that will run contests for the wait staff, like whomever sells the most desserts for the month wins (usually a couple extra bucks). The frustrating thing is, I've had sales really jump when they've run those types of competitions. Then they drop when the contest if over. Whats a chef to do?

←

This is a common topic amongst us pastry chefs when we get together for our "pastry chefs night out." One thing I've noticed in restaurants as a customer, in particular if I go anonymously, that if a waitstaff likes the pastry chef as a person, he or she tends to make a greater effort to sell the dessert, if not also promote the pastry chef. When I was last at Sona restaurant in Los Angeles, the waiter would not stop talking about how wonderful Michelle Myers is. He did this with a tables of deuce around us and they ended up ordering 3 desserts.

I try to cultivate the same relationship with the staff of the restaurants I work at. Beginning with a pre-meal discussion of the desserts, sometimes featuring the special. With the usually high turnover of staffing, the challenge of dessert sales is decreased when the staff gets to taste the desserts often. As the creator of the dish you know how best to describe your dishes using keywords (refreshing, yummy, light, words a customer wants to hear), which you could add to your menu descriptions to be handed out. It is useful to also establish a two-way communication with the waitstaff where they inform you of customers' response to the menu.

I have to admit, some of the items at Spice Market have been easy sell as they have appeared somewhere in a newspaper or magazine. I shamelessly encourage the staff to capitalize on that, "as featured in The New York Times." In the same token, a pastry chef can help the waitstaff by giving them selling points like "peaches are so wonderful at this time of the year," or "the chocolate is our pastry chef's favorite creation." While they don't have to like the desserts, remind them that they are essentially salespeople and just them the tools to get by when they're selling your desserts on the floor.

In short, a pastry chef must also think of himself or herself as a top ranked manager, which means, not just training the staff to get to know the products but also familiarizing them with who you are as a person. If he or she is a person they look up to, greater effort will naturally be made. And always treat the staff with respect. Remember that this is the business of hospitality and chances of success are definitely greater out there when good hospitality begins at home.

[Pichet Ong]

I was researching an answer for someone asking about Pacojet recipes and in my search I stumped upon a previous conversation we had this past May. Here's the link to it. In reading that thread I starting thinking about what Bond Girl wrote as the last line in your Demo thread

Pichet Ong will be a guest on the pastry and baking board. He hopes to change the perception of pastry to show that it's not just about desserts.

←

Chef Ong, you've got many pastry chefs reading you here. Can you shed more light onto this topic. I think many of us have the interest in savory and crossing over in ingredient uses........but I think we run into on the job problems that hinder us from doing more savory work. Then you add into the mix the public's perception of what they expect a dessert to consist of.........how can the average pastry chef conquer this?

←

I don't believe there is an answer to this. But I can tell you about my past experiences. Savory ingredients in desserts, to my understanding, go way back in history, as long as dessert technique applied to savory dishes. Salting caramel and dairy based products, spices and herbs, even using meats in desserts which is common in some cuisines.

"Savory" ingredients like curry, lard, ginger, bay leaf, avocado, miso, and even foie gras (which I love) have been in my dessert pantry for a long time. I don't think of them as being ingredients that are weird, except they are flavors which I like and I think would enhance the overall experience of a dish. In using them for dessert, I think it is important to use them, just as you would with sugar, in moderation. A delicious dish, sweet or savory, is a balance of both (and sour, bitter if you want to round out the mix). Caramel sauce spiked with soy sauce has to have just enough soy to taste it but not too much.

And remember that too many savory ingredients used in a single dish is not good. If white pepper is intended to be the savory highlight of the dish, for instance, then it should be the only savory spice.

But i can see how this could be a tough sell in a restaurant, due to public perception of what a dessert should be. There is no clearcut remedy to this. But from what I have seen, context helps. If eucalyptus appears on the appetizer menu, it is not an unsafe bet that it will sell in a chocolate dessert. Sometimes, one can also leave out the "secret" ingredient and not mention it on the printed menu, like sea salt, which scares a lot of people. The type of clientele the restaurant caters to is another issue a chef has to consider.

Keep the variety varied and have something for everyone on the menu. As the last course, the portions small so there is room for an encore.

Recently, the media is widely labelling savory ingredients used in dessert making as being provocative or daring. While i am not sure if they are an accurate label, the public is being made aware of what is out there. Perhaps over more time, Bacon Ice Cream will not be a tough sell after all.

History tells us that food is an evolution and that people are generally a progressive culture. Perhaps this is not a conquest. But small steps towards a goal.

[Wendy DeBord]

Just briefly, I'd like to ask a follow up question about your views on new hires. Do you have any strong feelings about hiring culinary school grad.'s? I know we each run into good and bad examples of students coming out of school. Many jobs now require a culinary degree, how much do you value that degree when approached by applicants? Are there any culinary schools that you impress you with the over all level of their graduates?

Maybe it's just me but I feel like theres so little time to do all that I want in this profession. I'd love to compete in many competitions and various exhibits. I'd love to be really good in breads and chocolate. Well, really good in everything, but it's so challenging/impossible to be really good in multiple culinary arts. The skill level in pastry and breads have exploded over the past 10/15 years. What was once cutting edge is now basic. Sometimes I find it hard to just keep up reading everything thats going on, yet alone take on learning how to do something new.

Are there any subjects you really want to explore and haven't gotten to yet? If you didn't have any limits/responsiblities and you could just hop on a plane......is there any restaurants that your dying to dine at, any classes you'd love to take, any cusines that you'd like to explore more deeply, any competitions or exhibits you'd love to take part in? .....and why?

[Pichet Ong]

Just briefly, I'd like to ask a follow up question about your views on new hires. Do you have any strong feelings about hiring culinary school grad.'s? I know we each run into good and bad examples of students coming out of school.  Many jobs now require a culinary degree, how much do you value that degree when approached by applicants? Are there any culinary schools that you impress you with the over all level of their graduates?

Maybe it's just me but I feel like theres so little time to do all that I want in this profession. I'd love to compete in many competitions and various exhibits. I'd love to be really good in breads and chocolate. Well, really good in everything, but it's so challenging/impossible to be really good in multiple culinary arts. The skill level in pastry and breads have exploded over the past 10/15 years. What was once cutting edge is now basic. Sometimes I find it hard to just keep up reading everything thats going on, yet alone take on learning how to do something new.

Are there any subjects you really want to explore and haven't gotten to yet? If you didn't have any limits/responsiblities and you could just hop on a plane......is there any restaurants that your dying to dine at, any classes you'd love to take, any cusines that you'd like to explore more deeply, any competitions or exhibits you'd love to take part in? .....and why?

←

I hire people straight out of culinary school from time to time. There is no favorite school, but being in New York, I get a lot of applicants and externs from French Culinary Institute and Institute of Culinary Education. I never attended culinary school myself so I value gastronomic education differently. However, over the years, I have had many graduates from Culinary Institute of America who have done very well with their culinary endeavors and careers.

I think there is so much to do in our profession. There is no one set direction for anyone. I focus on something for a certain time, like line cooking experience, breadmaking, cheeses, and the Asian theme thing. I love competitions, but only if it's mostly about entertainment, judged on speed (under and hour) and taste focused. I have thought about working with an Italian concept menu as the flavors are some of my most favorites. I would love to visit Shanghai as I have not been since the new revolution. There is a lot of new additions to the dessert dining scene. I may visit my PC friend Jason Licker there next year. The current focus for me is how to turn what I know in pastry making industry into a business. That seems like a natural step for me.

[Wendy DeBord]

I love competitions, but only if it's mostly about entertainment, judged on speed (under and hour) and taste focused.  I have thought about working with an Italian concept menu as the flavors are some of my most favorites.

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So would Iron Chef appeal to you? Or do any of the FoodTV series like the Cupcake competition or the Sugar showpiece competitions interest you? I don't know, are you into decorative aspects too?

For example, I always look forward to seeing the results from the Ny City Chocolate Show. Martin Howards' designs always make me smile! I think that's the ultimate play ground..............food and fun.......

So then the National and International pastry Championship contests don't appeal to you?

I'm a little confused, when you mention Italian concept you are talking about sweets, right? So is it the cheeses, custards, cookies and liqours that attract you to Italian baking?

[Pichet Ong]

I love competitions, but only if it's mostly about entertainment, judged on speed (under and hour) and taste focused.  I have thought about working with an Italian concept menu as the flavors are some of my most favorites.

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So would Iron Chef appeal to you? Or do any of the FoodTV series like the Cupcake competition or the Sugar showpiece competitions interest you? I don't know, are you into decorative aspects too?

For example, I always look forward to seeing the results from the Ny City Chocolate Show. Martin Howards' designs always make me smile! I think that's the ultimate play ground..............food and fun.......

So then the National and International pastry Championship contests don't appeal to you?

I'm a little confused, when you mention Italian concept you are talking about sweets, right? So is it the cheeses, custards, cookies and liqours that attract you to Italian baking?

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Iron Chef definitely appeals to me. I watched Martin Howard on the Cupcake competition the other day and that looked fun. He is a great showman and yes his designs makes me smile too.

Those big pastry championships fascinate me. I attended the last one in Las Vegas and that looked really intense. I'm not sure if I have the patience for that but it is an incredible opportunity for a pastry chef to showcase his or her talents.

I mean work on a dessert menu for an Italian restaurant. Everything from the classics sabayon and gelati to cookies and liquors. I have never made a tiramisu yet! What is the secret recipe is to a great tiramisu?

[Wendy DeBord]

I have never made a tiramisu yet!  What is the secret recipe is to a great tiramisu?

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The only "secret" part, took me years to figure out (true)............you just can't make a decent tiramisu with your own lady fingers....no lie. Unless you can figure out how to make them dry just like the packaged ones. All the lady finger recipes I've come across were cakes (no matter how you baked or tried to dry them), where as the package ones are really crisp/dry cookies. Maybe some sort of variation on a babies teething biscuit would work, I haven't found the right recipe yet. The packaged hard lady fingers are needed to absorb just enough of your coffee/liqour syrup and the moisture from the marscarpone mixture. The overnight blending of flavors is necessary to soften the ladyfingers and set your filling.

Theres tons of ways to fix your marscarpone, most are pretty good... I prefer raw yolk and whipped egg whites (both pasturized) to lighten, no whipped cream. My only other "secret" is I like to sprinkle cocoa powder on my inner layers and sweet chocolate on top. Otherwise you choke on the cocoa powder on top ........and if you don't put the cocoa powder through out your layers, it' boring. Everyone fights over which liqours to use, just like the marscarpone filling, I think most are pretty good, it's always just personal taste.

Do you work with sugar and chocolate to make showpiece types of pieces? I feel silly asking you that, it's just that I don't know........I've never seen anything written on you doing so. Can I assume that your naturally artistic (considering your previous career)?.....most pastry chefs are artistic in multiple medias..... what type of visual work would you do? Are you playful like Martin Howard, serious like Steve Klc, romantic like Jacque Torres, etc....? Would your work have an Asian visual style?

O.k. so your on Iron Chef, which Iron Chef do you compete against? What's your ideal secret ingredient, that you know you can out handle your competitor with? What would you prepare (keeping in mind that you've got a time limit to accomplish everything in)?