Burger helper

[annarborfoodie]

note to kbear - If you had a chance to check out Magus' stand, you'd find that he has been focusing on the basics for quite a while. Hamburgers, cheeseburgers, hot dogs. That's it. So now he's trying to be a little more creative.

magus -

On the bun issue - I think the ones you're currently using go with the stand and the whole "vibe" of a classic burger. If you're going to go with a fancier bun, I agree with the recommendations for a kaiser roll.

If you were going to make one addition to the menu right now, I'd vote for grilled onions. It wouldn't be out of line with what you're doing already, and it's not too complicated.

[Magus]

note to kbear - If you had a chance to check out Magus' stand, you'd find that he has been focusing on the basics for quite a while.  Hamburgers, cheeseburgers, hot dogs.  That's it.  So now he's trying to be a little more creative.

magus -

On the bun issue - I think the ones you're currently using go with the stand and the whole "vibe" of a classic burger.  If you're going to go with a fancier bun, I agree with the recommendations for a kaiser roll.

If you were going to make one addition to the menu right now, I'd vote for grilled onions.  It wouldn't be out of line with what you're doing already, and it's not too complicated.

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Funny you shold say that about the onions. I did a test last week. I brought raw diced onions about 1/8 inch square and marinated onions ( I grilled thoes) and everytime someone wanted onions they were asked if they wanted raw or grilled onions. I brought 5lbs of each and I went back with 4 and 1/2lbs of raw diced onions. Long story short...the grilled onions went much better than the raw. I want to keep it classic...my motto is "no gimicks...just damn good food" so I think I just need to make sure all the buns are toasted.

[Magus]

I know this is a long shot but just in case anyone will be in the Ann Arbor MI area this weekend for the MI vs. Penn State game, I will be located in front of Ebel Field. This is located on Hoover and Divison St. This is where the band starts marching from.

[ChefCrash]

...my motto is "no gimicks...just damn good food" ....

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Naming a burger? You said it: "Damn Good Burger". The DGB.

And how about a "Consolation Burger" for after the game.

[MarketStEl]

I know this is a long shot but just in case anyone will be in the Ann Arbor MI area this weekend for the MI vs. Penn State game, I will be located in front of Ebel Field. This is located on Hoover and Divison St. This is where the band starts marching from. 

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State College is just far enough away for me to avoid catching the Nittany Lion fan virus. I have to do something to maintain a claim to non-nativehood, and continually mentioning Kansas City in various posts on these boards probably isn't enough any more.

Count me in among the blue cheese-on-burger lovers. I wasn't aware that you could get blue cheese in slices -- most, but not all, of the good varieties are crumbly. But since that's possible, apparently, what the poster said upthread about waste is true; however, if you can afford it, I'd go with crumbled blue cheese instead.

I'm assuming here that your customers willingly pay for a superior product. If my assumption is correct, don't skimp on the blue cheese, either -- go for a good variety like Buttermilk Blue if you can get it in sufficient quantity. (Roaring Forties would be even better, but it costs anywhere from 50% to 75% more at retail, so I'd suspect there's a similar difference at the wholesale level.)

If my assumption is incorrect, any decent domestic or Danish blue will do.

[Magus]

A SERIES OF UNFORTUNANT EVENTS!!!

Well...I think I have really done it now. I think I have done something that had unintended consequences.

I have been serving burgers at football games for a few years now. I have developed a following.

This past game a lady asked me if I did this full time, I said no... not yet. She said when I dicided to do this full time...dont change a thing with the hamburgers.

More than one person has told me this...THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM. I cook the burgers from Frozen...because I only have dry ice to keep them cold until I cook and serve them. It was not my intention of cooking burgers from frozen, but it was the only thing that I could do (health dept orders).

So although I know what blend of burger I am going to use as well as meat to fat ratio...but if I change the burgers from frozen to fresh...will people be disappointed? or say....these are different burgers.

Oh by the way...I just procured a 1968 Airstream this week. Construction starts next week on the Airstream

Edited October 9, 2007 by Magus (log)

[Toliver]

So although I know what blend of burger I am going to use as well as meat to fat ratio...but if I change the burgers from frozen to fresh...will people be disappointed? or say....these are different burgers.

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Sounds like a good excuse for a side by side taste test. I'm sure you'll be able to find volunteers to do the tasting.

[rooftop1000]

So although I know what blend of burger I am going to use as well as meat to fat ratio...but if I change the burgers from frozen to fresh...will people be disappointed? or say....these are different burgers.

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Sounds like a good excuse for a side by side taste test. I'm sure you'll be able to find volunteers to do the tasting.

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I have found I have more success cooking a burger perfectly if it is frozen...you get great char without overcooking. I often now get just shy of fully cooked yet still drippy juicy.

So, you will have to relearn to cook from fresh or keep em frozen

tracey

[MarketStEl]

So although I know what blend of burger I am going to use as well as meat to fat ratio...but if I change the burgers from frozen to fresh...will people be disappointed? or say....these are different burgers.

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Sounds like a good excuse for a side by side taste test. I'm sure you'll be able to find volunteers to do the tasting.

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I have found I have more success cooking a burger perfectly if it is frozen...you get great char without overcooking. I often now get just shy of fully cooked yet still drippy juicy.

So, you will have to relearn to cook from fresh or keep em frozen

tracey

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Tracey's basically right, but her post leaves a question unanswered:

Define "fully cooked."

Most hardcore burger lovers want their patties no more thoroughly cooked than medium at worst, for past that point, most of the juices cook right out of the burger. However, I have encountered exceptions to the "a well done burger makes a great hockey puck" rule; the Five Guys burger-joint chain in the Northeast US is one.

Health department regulations in some areas may require you to cook your burgers to a specified internal temperature, and where this is the case, the temperature is high enough to preclude offering any degree of doneness less than well.

If cooking from frozen allows you to serve a burger that is well done yet still juicy, then maybe you shouldn't mess with success. However, Five Guys' patties are fresh, not frozen, and hand-shaped (or look it), so I don't think that cooking from frozen is a must. But you would have to do a few trial runs if you're not cooking from fresh now, unless you can serve medium or medium-rare burgers already; in that case, you can probably cook from fresh without much trouble.

[Magus]

So although I know what blend of burger I am going to use as well as meat to fat ratio...but if I change the burgers from frozen to fresh...will people be disappointed? or say....these are different burgers.

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Sounds like a good excuse for a side by side taste test. I'm sure you'll be able to find volunteers to do the tasting.

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I have found I have more success cooking a burger perfectly if it is frozen...you get great char without overcooking. I often now get just shy of fully cooked yet still drippy juicy.

So, you will have to relearn to cook from fresh or keep em frozen

tracey

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Tracey's basically right, but her post leaves a question unanswered:

Define "fully cooked."

Most hardcore burger lovers want their patties no more thoroughly cooked than medium at worst, for past that point, most of the juices cook right out of the burger. However, I have encountered exceptions to the "a well done burger makes a great hockey puck" rule; the Five Guys burger-joint chain in the Northeast US is one.

Health department regulations in some areas may require you to cook your burgers to a specified internal temperature, and where this is the case, the temperature is high enough to preclude offering any degree of doneness less than well.

If cooking from frozen allows you to serve a burger that is well done yet still juicy, then maybe you shouldn't mess with success. However, Five Guys' patties are fresh, not frozen, and hand-shaped (or look it), so I don't think that cooking from frozen is a must. But you would have to do a few trial runs if you're not cooking from fresh now, unless you can serve medium or medium-rare burgers already; in that case, you can probably cook from fresh without much trouble.

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Sandy! How in the heck are ya. Well, right now I cook the burgers well done...yet they are still VERY JUICY!!! When I am when I put the burger on the bun...you can not tell that it was frozen...very irregular edges with nice sear! I just like the idea of being able to control the product and wanted to do this in-house. But in doing so I have to give up control by letting others know what I put in the mix...which I am not fond of. I have to think of competitive advantage. The hard thing is what people are saying..."DONT CHANGE A THING" My thinking was that the frozen patties were a temp thing...now it seems it has to be a perm thing that is beyond my control.

I dont want to be known for making burgers from frozen. Maybe I will have to have another line of burgers...which really stinks. or just bite the bullet and go fresh when I can.

[Toliver]

I dont want to be known for making burgers from frozen. Maybe I will have to have another line of burgers...which really stinks. or just bite the bullet and go fresh when I can.

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you've tasted a cooked-from-fresh burger and a cooked-from-frozen burger and there's not a major difference, keep doing what you're doing.

It's all a matter of spin. You need to think like a PR flak.

Your burgers aren't just frozen, they're "fresh-frozen".

Your top secret blend of spices and beef are fresh-frozen to meld into a first class burger unlike any other. Then they're put directly on the grill where they transform into the juicy No. 9 Original burger that's in so much demand.

There's no charge for that ad copy.

As for smoothies (as discussed a while ago), do they take any longer to prepare than a shake? If they're more bother than they're worth, 86 'em.

Frankly, if you're going retro, I'd say don't do them. My mom & dad didn't have smoothies when they went out to eat in their younger days and they turned out just fine. You could even do what Carl's Jr./Hardee's is doing...their current TV campaign has them mocking smoothies which suggests retro (shakes) is better. The advertising angles are endless.

Regarding wanting to offer a variety of cheeses on your burgers...

I'd say keep it simple as others have suggested since this discussion first began. Save the variety of cheeses for your "Freestyle Fridays" specials. If they prove to be popular, then go ahead and move them to your main menu.

[Magus]

I dont want to be known for making burgers from frozen. Maybe I will have to have another line of burgers...which really stinks. or just bite the bullet and go fresh when I can.

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you've tasted a cooked-from-fresh burger and a cooked-from-frozen burger and there's not a major difference, keep doing what you're doing.

It's all a matter of spin. You need to think like a PR flak.

Your burgers aren't just frozen, they're "fresh-frozen".

Your top secret blend of spices and beef are fresh-frozen to meld into a first class burger unlike any other. Then they're put directly on the grill where they transform into the juicy No. 9 Original burger that's in so much demand.

There's no charge for that ad copy.

As for smoothies (as discussed a while ago), do they take any longer to prepare than a shake? If they're more bother than they're worth, 86 'em.

Frankly, if you're going retro, I'd say don't do them. My mom & dad didn't have smoothies when they went out to eat in their younger days and they turned out just fine. You could even do what Carl's Jr./Hardee's is doing...their current TV campaign has them mocking smoothies which suggests retro (shakes) is better. The advertising angles are endless.

Regarding wanting to offer a variety of cheeses on your burgers...

I'd say keep it simple as others have suggested since this discussion first began. Save the variety of cheeses for your "Freestyle Fridays" specials. If they prove to be popular, then go ahead and move them to your main menu.

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* L@@king at Toliver like he's captain crazy*....thinking about it some more.... ....

You know what Toliver...I never thought about it like that before. I want to stay true to the burger and not become just another place that is serving pucks...but I will think about it...I am going to think about that alot.

I will take a picture of the food this weekend and post it and let everyone be the judge....I just wish I had that "scratch and sniff computer screen technology" but a picture will have to do.

Smoothies are out! The only thing I am going to have as far as drinks go are (Hand spun Milkshakes and malts, Soda, hand squeezed lemonade and Southern style Ice tea)...I may not have bottled water because they didn't have that back then.

[annarborfoodie]

I was planning on being the official eGullet photographer this weekend! My husband has been talking about these burgers for six weeks so we will definitely be making a stop.

I can vouch for the fact that the burgers are juicy and definitely don't resemble hockey pucks. I don't think that they have to be frozen to be the same - you could try them both ways. Maybe invite some of your regulars from the football games to a taste test? You do have to keep the blend and meat/fat ratio the same though- I think that's the key to your burgers.

[Magus]

I was planning on being the official eGullet photographer this weekend!  My husband has been talking about these burgers for six weeks so we will definitely be making a stop.

I can vouch for the fact that the burgers are juicy and definitely don't resemble hockey pucks.  I don't think that they have to be frozen to be the same - you could try them both ways.  Maybe invite some of your regulars from the football games to a taste test?  You do have to keep the blend and meat/fat ratio the same though- I think that's the key to your burgers.

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If you would like to take pictures...THAT WOULD BE GREAT!!!! I will leave the food picks to the pros Im plan to bring extra because it is going to be a crazy day...HOMECOMMING!!

[Toliver]

You seem to be really stressing about the frozen patty vs. fresh patty.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the court, I give you Exhibit A (post #129)

....This weekend. I served basic cheese burgers...I sold 120 burgers in 3 hrs. At one point I had to tell everyone that was already in line that there would be a 5-7 min wait for burgers. My fear was that everyone would get out of line or choose something else to eat. NO ONE GOT OUT OF THE LINE!!!....

Exhibit B (post #164)

....SOLD OUT!!!

What a great, exhausting, knock down, drag out day!

200 burgers,

This time, the people who were in the back of the line last lat game came early and brought two and three at a time.  They would buy some, stand to the side and eat them, then get back in line....

Exhibit C (post #260)

I am still doing the football games and selling out every game. I am happy about that. Demand has gone up by 50% from last year. This has given me a chance to think about simplicity...staying on track, staying focused.

and Exhibit D (post $286)

Well...We had a great day. I was SO happy to see Annarborfoodie stoped by. That was the ultimate complement. 

We sold out of burgers five min after she stopped by....

Your customers seem to have no problem eating your burgers that started out as a frozen patty. It's not as if your patties stay in the freezer for 6 months before they're cooked and consumed. No, they're "fresh-frozen" and then cooked within a relatively short period of time. Do the taste test and then move on...you have other matters that deserve your attention.

You do realize that even if you decide to just serve fresh patties at your brick & mortar place, you'll still have to have some frozen patties on hand in case you sell out of the fresh ones (see the above Exhibits)?

I don't know if you've signed off on the name of your joint, yet. I'm favoring "Classic Burgers" as opposed to "Classic Hamburgers". Why? Because hamburgers are just beef burgers, but "burgers" can be beef burgers, chicken burgers, fish burgers, etc. You may start out your business selling beef hamburgers but your ultimate goal is to eventually expand into other kinds of burgers. The difference in labeling may be minor but in the long run, it can go further.

As for burger names, don't forget "The Cloud 9". Sounds heavenly, no?

[annarborfoodie]

It was another sell-out weekend for No. 9 Classic Hamburgers and a win for the Wolverines!

As promised, here are photos for all of you who don't have the pleasure of eating one of these burgers.

First - Magus' smiling face

The menu

The stand

The LINE! (and we were pretty early)

the grill

and finally, a Classic Double (with grilled onions)

Go Magus! and GO BLUE!

[Magus]

Annarborfoodie...THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE PICTURES!!!...it was a great day. I brought more food because it was homecomming and we sold out of everything by halftime!!! We were putt'in hunger pangs in a headlock on game day.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Magus (log)

[Jamie Lee]

Day-Um! Magus, those look AWESOME! Keep turning out those bad boyz, and you're gonna be successful!

Annarborfoodie: Thanks for the pics, both of the burgers and Magus!

[Cadbury]

and finally, a Classic Double (with grilled onions)

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That looks GOOOOOOOOOOOD! This thread has been such an interesting read. Wishing you the best with your project.

[Magus]

I have been thinking about this for a few days now and I feel that next to someone eating and enjoying your food...the next highest honor is for someone to take pictures of your food to share with others...Again...Thank You! for this honor...but....now...I have to remain focused because NOW! the world is watching!!! thanks for the pressure

Edited October 16, 2007 by Magus (log)

[divalasvegas]

So glad that your business is a smashing success Magus and God Bless annarborfoodie for the fat, juicy, double cheeseburger porn.

It's great that you've decided to keep it old school and not offer veggie burgers and smoothies. There are plenty of places to get those things, but not everyone can turn out a stellar burger where people are eating them two and three at a time.

Plus we all have the added benefit of seeing that you are a real cutie pie!

[Magus]

So glad that your business is a smashing success Magus and God Bless annarborfoodie for the fat, juicy, double cheeseburger porn.

It's great that you've decided to keep it old school and not offer veggie burgers and smoothies.  There are plenty of places to get those things, but not everyone can turn out a stellar burger where people are eating them two and three at a time.

Plus we all have the added benefit of seeing that you are a real cutie pie!

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Thank You for your...all too kind complement. I was looking VERY rough and unshaved in that pic. I have found that it's hard trying to to offer too much and be everything to everyone. I am always in the mode of "what can I do next...what will take it to the next level. I always feel for No.9 to be the perfect 10...I have to keep busting hump...because my competiton will always be there breathing down my neck!

Here is to my egullet family and staying true to the classic!!! You all have been so much help that I cant begin to thank you.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Magus (log)

[Magus]

This weekend I am planning to put up my website. I figure this must be done because I dont want to loose touch with customers...opening before next football season...It will give me a chance to get feedback/comments etc. now... and to keep in touch with my customer base. And I promise....NO FLASH!!!!

[MarketStEl]

Up until this point, I figured I had no good reason to visit Ann Arbor, even though Midwestern college towns are by definition cool places.

After looking at that drool-worthy money-shot food porn photo of your Classic Double, I must now figure out an excuse to head through Ann Arbor on a fall Saturday. At least until you open permanent digs in Detroit.

I was also about to say that you look better than your avatar -- until I noticed that you replaced your avatar drawing with an actual photo.

Nice, classy chalkboard sign you have at your stand. Your own handiwork, something a friend did for you, or did you hire an outside pro?

[Magus]

Sandy Sez:Up until this point, I figured I had no good reason to visit Ann Arbor, even though Midwestern college towns are by definition cool places

Yeah...Ann Arbor is a cool place but just think...I am going to be working to take that "coolness" to a whole different level.

Sandy Sez:After looking at that drool-worthy money-shot food porn photo of your Classic Double, I must now figure out an excuse to head through Ann Arbor on a fall Saturday. At least until you open permanent digs in Detroit.

Well I am planning on emailing everyone to keep up to date. Detroit?..

Sandy Sez: Nice, classy chalkboard sign you have at your stand. Your own handiwork, something a friend did for you, or did you hire an outside pro?

Yep!...I did that on my own. It was sort of a rush job...that also can use some improvement.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Magus (log)