Burger helper

[Chris Amirault]

You're welcome! And I'll take two t-shirts with that great logo, please, black, XL!

[M.X.Hassett]

Here is another burger thread for you http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=74332&hl=

So do we all get free eGullet burgers when you open

[TPO]

Here is another burger thread for you  http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=74332&hl= 

So do we all get free eGullet burgers when you open    

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You could give us all a secret eGullet password so that when we visit we can get that free burger...

I just wanted to say a big "THANK YOU!" to EVERYONE who have contributed to this post. I never thought that this post would be responded to at the level it has. I have learned sooooo much from all of you  and I am still learning.  You folks are great people and I truly thank you.

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Thanks for letting us offer input! I have always toyed with the idea of owning a diner, but it is much, much easier to live vicariously through you instead.

[Magus]

I wish I had a bigger one griddle that is.

This weekend. I served basic cheese burgers...I sold 120 burgers in 3 hrs. At one point I had to tell everyone that was already in line that there would be a 5-7 min wait for burgers. My fear was that everyone would get out of line or choose something else to eat. NO ONE GOT OUT OF THE LINE!!! as a matter of fact, the long line attracted more people to get in line. When I yelled out there are 10 burgers left...people in the back of the line started BIDDING! I was floored. The bid got as high as $7 for one of these cheese burgers...I was only selling them for 3 bucks.

These were not even the fresh ground burgers yet.

[Chris Amirault]

We told you, man! If you build it, they will come! Especially if "it" is a killer burger!

[Magus]

Im just wondering what is going to happen when I start serving fresh ground burgers.

Speaking of ground burgers. I have old school thoughts when it comes to how I would like to do things vs. what will be the best business pratice.

I have been looking at meat grinders. Now, there are the manual ones...which in my mind is the old school way of doing it and I dont know if it will give the meat a different texture. or not.

I have also seen some electric meat grinders. My only worry is the heat that "may be" generated from this machine. I want to make sure I keep the heat as low as possible because I dont want anyone to get sick from bacteria growth that could happen if the temp of the ground meat is raised.

I guess I could chill the meat before I grind it then put it back into the fridge. Then make sure I sanitize the heck out of the machine.

Also I was reading a about a burger that they serve at Juniors in Brooklyn. The said they send the meat through the grinder twice

What is better a corse ground burger or fine ground?

Edited October 10, 2005 by Magus (log)

[M.X.Hassett]

Im just wondering what is going to happen when I start serving fresh ground burgers.

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CONGRATULATIONS,wow a bidding war for burgers, I just hope nobody hitches up your trailer to a truck and kidnaps you, next thing you know you are NJ how much does u-haul charge

On the meat issue I have only used a manual grinder for home use. They have different sized plates for different grinds, you might want to try a course grind mixed with fine grind, to tweak the final texture. I am not sure about the heat issue but I would think if the meat is chilled and ground in batches you would not have much of a problem imho.

Congrats. again

[Magus]

wow a bidding war for burgers

Yeah! I could not believe it myself. I thought someone was just being a smart A$$

but they were dead serious with money in hand.

Crazy if you ask me

I just hope nobody hitches up your trailer to a truck and kidnaps you, next thing you know you are NJ how much does u-haul charge

29.95 a day plus a buck a mile

On the meat issue I have only used a manual grinder for home use. They have different sized plates for different grinds, you might want to try a course grind mixed with fine grind, to tweak the final texture.

How about sending the ground meat through the grinder a second time? I can see it mixing the meat and fat a bit better but it can also make the burger much more dense. Just my thoughts.

[M.X.Hassett]

I am not sure as to running it through the grinder a second time worth a try. The density could be adjusted by the addition of more fat possibly. Personaly I prefer a courser grind, with the addition of fine grind to hold it together lets say 85% course 15% fine. But hey I am a little strange I have been known to add duck fat, finely ground fat back or salt pork, even foie.

Just a side note try slicing some fat back very thin like bacon and frying it in some duck fat makes a great burger topper imho, probably not for the masses though.

[Shalmanese]

How big do you plan to eventually grow your business? Manual grinding and hand cut chips are fine for home use, but if your spending 5 hours every day just grinding burger meat, then it's pretty hard to make money.

[Magus]

How big do you plan to eventually grow your business? Manual grinding and hand cut chips are fine for home use, but if your spending 5 hours every day just grinding burger meat, then it's pretty hard to make money.

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Well Shalmanese...I have been thinking about that for quite a while and you have a very valid point. What is the difference between me manually grinding the meat myself or paying someone else to do it with an electric grinder. What is the difference if I hand cut the fries or pay someone else to do it. Well, I am planning to do it my self at first, train others, then give them the tools to go out there and kick (you know what). My time will become very valuable and I need to place my focus on my customers, serving great quality food, being great a what I do and staying great!

Edited October 11, 2005 by Magus (log)

[Pan]

Congratulations, Magus!

Did you mention your exact location, so that more people can wait on line?

[MarketStEl]

Congratulations, Magus!

Did you mention your exact location, so that more people can wait on line?

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Repeated pleading on my part earlier produced only the state in which it will be located.

Maybe Magus will take pity on us and give us a municipality (I dare not hope for an actual address) now that the pleading has resumed. Or does he fear an onslaught of salivating eGulleteers from all across America on opening day?

[Magus]

Congratulations, Magus!

Did you mention your exact location, so that more people can wait on line?

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Repeated pleading on my part earlier produced only the state in which it will be located.

Maybe Magus will take pity on us and give us a municipality (I dare not hope for an actual address) now that the pleading has resumed. Or does he fear an onslaught of salivating eGulleteers from all across America on opening day?

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I would LOVE more than anything to say the city or township that I will be located in at this time but, I also feel that it will be in my best interest remain quiet at this time about the location until about a couple of weeks before I open. I have to be careful...I'm still a little guy that is prepairing for war with some major players.

But I promise...I will make you all proud!

On another note, I am in the process of drafting my website. I plan to have an "underground section" just for my egullet family

Edited October 11, 2005 by Magus (log)

[MarketStEl]

What is the difference between me manually grinding the meat myself or paying someone else to do it with an electric grinder. What is the difference if I hand cut the fries or pay someone else to do it.  Well, I am planning to do it my self at first, train others, then give them the tools to go out there and kick (you know what).

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Do this and you will have done a great service to everyone who loves good food, and quite likely raised the bar for good burgers in your home territory at the same time.

Judging from your recounts of patronage at your game-day stands, I wonder if you really need to worry about the competition as much as the competition needs to worry about you!

[Magus]

Would this be the proper venue to discuss the look and vibe of a restaurant. Or is not not a big concern? I just have some ideas I would like to kick around.

[Chris Amirault]

Are you kidding? We freely and happily dispense advice on all food-related matters! Bring it on!

[Magus]

The establishment will have a retro feel to it already with the trailer and the food. but now I am thinking about look. I don't really want the impression of being retro...I would rather the impression that "we just never caught up with the new fangled way of doing things. So I was thinking of the following.

Cooks: white chef coat with the funny pants and head bandanas.

or T-shirts with jeans and a baseball cap.

I could have people come up to the trailer or have someone go out to them to take their order. Going out to car means I need to hire more people.

Burgers dont keep well so delivery is out.

Music. should there be?

I have a pretty healthy collection of hip-hop music.

I took all of the tracks and wiped out the lyrics so now I have about 10 megs of instrumentals. (cant have foul language) I figured it will help blend in to the urban landscape.

Also the music can change with the weather. On rainy days, I have a good collection of Sam Cooke and Ray Charles.

cafe table for the seating area.

Edited October 11, 2005 by Magus (log)

[TPO]

My initial gut feeling is that sending people out to the cars to take orders will give the impression of fast food. I'd have them wait outside in line as that will add to the charm of the whole experience.

You could take call-ahead orders for people to pick up to help with the lines.

As for attire, I am partial to aprons embroidered with your logo or your slogan.

[MarketStEl]

If you are planning only to have people waiting in/to enter the trailer, you can safely dispense with the music. If you plan to have seating on-site, you might want to add some background music.

I'd probably go for a slightly broader mix than straight hip-hop. There are some artists whose instrumentals would be excellent for backgrounds, and others--Queen Latifah comes to mind--who would work well without having to delete their lyrics in most cases. Radio edits of others (Missy Elliott) you could also throw in. But I'd also mix in some classic R&B, neo-soul (e.g., Seal or Babyface), and maybe even acid jazz (e.g., Us3's "Cantaloop") along with the best from your hip-hop collection.

[M.X.Hassett]

"Cooks: white chef coat with the funny pants and head bandanas.

or T-shirts with jeans and a baseball cap"

I would say jeans short sleave collared shirt and hat and apron with the logo.

I like the idea of modern music with the retro theme as opposed to "Johnny Rockets" uber-retro theme i.e. 50's rockabilly.

[Shalmanese]

I've been mulling over this for the course of the day and it's really struck something with me. What does it mean to be retro? Sure, you can slap up a bunch of furniture and play old music, but it seems much deeper to me. Theres a big psychlogical aspect to retroness, in essence, it's performance theatre as well as food. Retro hearkens back to the "good old days" that we imagine food was like. Maybe it wasn't perfect, but we get this feeling that there are some things which were done much, much better back then. I think I've managed to distill 3 things which I consider to be pure "retro"

1) Restaurants have become pansyfied. The rise of "the customer is always right" meant that restaurants lost a key part of their personality in order to appease the 1% of customers who are constantly whining. There was no more crude joking, the food had to be cooked exactly like how it was described on the menu, servers became "professional" and "polite" rather than idiosyncratic and slightly eccentric. The key goal for the floor manager was "to not make a scene" and shovel on all assortment of free goodies to keep the peace.

My image of a retro restaurant revels in it's individuality. From the moment you walk in the door, you should get the feeling that not only does the restaurant not need your business, but that you should feel priveledged that the restaurant deemed you worthy enough to allow you to patronise them. If you want a special order, sure, you might get it, but only because the chef is in a good mood today or likes your shirt. Not because they want you to "feel like you are a valued part of the integrated dining experience" or some crap. Conversely, if your an asshole, then you get booted out, no fuss. It doesn't matter if your going to tell all your friends what a horrible place this is, chances are your friends are assholes too and there are more than enough people dining here that we don't need your business.

No matter how your business is actually doing, if you can convey that attitude, then I think people will flock in droves. Because they're now part of an exclusive club, not one accessed by riches or good looks, but by being a good guy, and everyone wants to think they are a good guy.

2) A retro restaurant should be intensely personal. Not only do the servers know you, but the chef recognises you every time you walk in the door and knows that you just had a baby girl 3 months ago and thinks that she looks really cute. Everyone is made to feel like a regular as soon as they enter and theres an active sense that everyone there takes a genuine interest in your life.

Since the rise of supermarkets and chain malls, we've lost our sense of the working class acquantaince. Of all the people you directly interact with, either you know them personally via your web of friends or professional contacts, or they are an anonymous minimum wage labourer who you care nothing about. The butcher, baker and candle-stick makers are a dying breed and it seems like we are desperate to cling onto them. They still might exist in fancy suburbs where such things are still thriving. But they are probably disappearing from the lives of most of your customers. But you can always trust the burger guy.

3) Again, with the rise of suburbanisation, we've lost a sense of community. Part of us craves the small town feel where everyone knows your name and you can stop a random stranger on the street for conversation without seeming wierd. If you could make your burger joint in which random strangers can strike up a conversation, then I think you'll have an instant hit. Start introducing people to each other, offer a snippet of data to get them started and then just watch it roll. "Hey Ed, Joe here was just showing me some pictures of his baby girl, she's the cutest thing I ever laid my eyes on, show em the pictures Joe". It doesn't matter that Joe and Ed have never met before and that Ed might be a liberal gay man and Joe a Christian Conservative. For that 5 minutes, they might trade pleasantries about the pictures and then talk a bit about football or whatever. Relatively mundane stuff, but such a random encounter seems so rare today that it will be something special for the both of them.

I think if you could achieve any of these 3 things, you'll be successful, if you achieve all 3 of them, well, hell, I might fly all the way from Australia to eat one of your famous burgers.

[Shalmanese]

Oh, and a 4th point which I alluded to earlier: Food back then wasn't about carbs and phytochemicals and fad diets, food was about tasting good. Is it high in saturated fats? who knows? who cares! it makes for a damn tasty burger so thats what your going to get. Is it low carb? You gotta be kidding me, it's not low anything! Just eat the damn thing or get the hell out of my restaurant!

[Magus]

Shalmanese, I loved your statements! One day, I only hope that one day I am able to have a place like that.

[Magus]

Issues.

I found out today that the vintage trailer may not work in its raw form. I spoke to a guy today and he said that it can work only if I reinforce the floors. I need to gut it out anyway so this is not an issue.

My only concerns right now is that people may not take it seriously because it is not a brick and mortar. (could be seen as a fly by night). People in the past have done so many sketchy things in units like these (food trucks) that people may choose to go to an "established place"

As for the spot that I have found, it has a lot of driving traffic with alot of parking (its an empty parking lot) It just makes me wonder.

I have also found a brick and mortar (a real dump) for $500.00 a month. it is an old gas station. It would require alot of work and it still would not have any seating. It is also off the beaten path. It also cost more to do the things I want to do inside a building with codes and all. Also, who is to say that the landlord wont raise the rents.

If I continue with the trailer, Its mine and I can move it if need be and I am not sinking alot of money into someone eslses property. The only thing I will have to overcome is the stigma that goes along with mobile food units.

What are your thoughts.