Ze Kitchen Galerie - the good and the bad

[molto e]

I had the unfortunate experience of wasting one of my precious meals in Paris at Ze Kitchen Galerie. This cuisine is fusion, confusion and as my friend now calls it "poofusion"-draw your own conclusion. The menu changes every five weeks or so and I can definitely say this version does not work. The larger problem exists with their service which at this hipster bistro was indifferent to say the least. This was the only place that I have ever dined at that took the food order and the waiter ran away before offering WINE-IN PARIS-PLEASE. I would liken the wait staff to the wait staff at a club that is suitable to offer drinks only, but we did not get that chance.

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Edited August 28, 2005 by molto e (log)

[John Whiting]

Some trendy bistros are so considerate as to warn me off by the names they have chosen. This is one of them.

[molto e]

I had the unfortunate experience of wasting one of my precious meals in Paris at Ze Kitchen Galerie. This cuisine is fusion, confusion and as my friend now calls it "poofusion"-draw your own conclusion. The menu changes every five weeks or so and I can definitely say this version does not work. The larger problem exists with their service which at this hipster bistro was indifferent to say the least. This was the only place that I have ever dined at that took the food order and the waiter ran away before offering WINE-IN PARIS-PLEASE. I would liken the wait staff to the wait staff at a club that is suitable to offer drinks only, but we did not get that chance.

The looks of the restaurant are appealing, but do not let that sway you as you are there to eat. I appologize that I did not get the menu, but I was in a rush to try and get a decent meal after this fiasco. The menu had two broths- A beef Pho spin that was just not good(pictured) and a cold tomato green zebra mussel soup that no one had.

The special appetizer of the night was a salmon ravoli and was it special each bite had a different flavor which may be good if one were sucking on an"everlasting gobestopper", but this was a ravioli.

As you can see foam is popular here and as my Italian friend whose love for food is deep asked, "Why is that snot all over my food". I do not have a problem with foam if it is tasty rather than cloaking the secret components of Ze Kitchen's gruel.

There was also two fish starters a Lobster, orange and assorted other stuff and a half cooked salmon with orange mayo and yuzu juice.

The salmon was wrapped in nori, which my friend questioned it's place in the dish and the flavors were curiously STRONG like altioids-bitter orange mayo and yuzu juice straight and it was reduced to bring its flavor up another notch.

There was also a pasta and rice section of the starters that contained a penne with tomato confit and lemon and a rice that had chorizo, zucchini and thai basil amongst some other unidentifiable components. This had so much ying and yang that one was left wondering what flavors you were actually eating.AND MORE FOAM

At this point in the meal I knew we had made a terrible mistake and wanted to pay for the meal and restaurant hop, but this was supposed to be a nice meal out with friends and this suggestion fell upon deaf ears. Later in the evening, I am sure that one of us wishes that he had taken me up on that. One of my fellow diners expressed his desire to do bodily harm to whomever recommended this place to us. This place came highly recommended and if the menu changes so frequently perhaps this was not Chef William Ledeuil's best effort, but the service did not show any concern for uneaten plates of food, not one question of whether we liked it or not-NOTHING.

On to the main courses: behind door number 1- Sweetbreads-I do not have the components of the dish and it was given an uneven rating

Tuna with tomato marmelade and grapefruit? This dish did not work and the tuna was gumy

Red Snapper special-ok

I am sorry that I did not record anything else at this point as my aim is to record a great meal and not something of this caliber. There was also a zucchini blossom stuffed with a chicken meatball that really looked sloppy on the plate with ginger juice, red bell pepper puree and sliced zucchini that the first bite had a bone in it-nice.

Rabbit SLATHERED WITH HALF A JAR OF DIJON that had to be scraped off to reveal the meat. The loin was dry, but the leg was good-talking about the quality of the meat only.

The last dish was described as shrimp and squid in tempura, but the shrimp and squid had no tempura batter on them and the sliced zucchini was not crispy but damply fried.

After taking a few bites and passing them around to confirm our displeasure of "ZE", I secretly headed for the waiter to pay for this stuff as I felt bad to have been responsible for this suggestion and to have ruined what should have been a lovely dinner in Paris with good friends. The Maitre'D, Cedric Marechal was smoking and laughing in front of the restaurant with friends and when he saw my credit card in hand he said for money that I could have his attention-gee thanks pal. I just wanted to leave fast and we had to wait for the credit card machine to return and as my friend passed me from the bathroom she expressed her hope that when she returned to her place at the table that her food would not be there.

Cedric asked me,"No Dessert?".

"Nope", I replied and when the mains had been on the table all of 10 minutes and a patron comes to the front to pay the Maitre'D, I would have thought he may have another question instead of that one.

When we all left in a hurry after that with uneaten plates of food on our table, on our way out my man Cedric asked," Everything all right" and I told him that it was not and he asked us to explain and I took his card and told him I would get back to him on that. This place is advertised to hire chefs from various nationalities so the food has an authentic flavor, but to quote one of my favorite critics,"this must have been devised by throwing darts at an ingredient board". The flavors fight with each other instead of compliment each other. I am done with Ze Kitchen Galerie and so should you be.

Molto E

[fresh_a]

Wow! I have eaten there on many occasions , and simply do not agree with you. On every occasion the food was good, and interesting, and service friendly, although sometimes slow. Seems you have a big axe to grind...

[John Talbott]

Wow! I have eaten there on many occasions , and simply do not agree with you. On every occasion the food was good, and interesting, and service friendly, although sometimes slow. Seems you have a big axe to grind...

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Ditto plus. I've been there almost a dozen times and not only have never been disappointed, I'm very impressed by the food. Plus, although I didn't get onto the Lipp thread, my opinions mirror those of other detractors.

I think that based on your opinions of Ze and Lipp, which are the exact reverse of mine, you should burn the list I gave you fast.

Hope you do better the remainder of the trip.

[Juanito]

Just to add another data point, my wife and I dined at Ze in April, and loved our meal. We found the service more than accomodating, the dishes interesting, tasty, and artfully presented, and the atmosphere fun and energizing.

I've not yet read the Lipp thread, but I will say we did not enjoy our meal there. I thought the choucroute sucked, and they were out of Riesling, for god's sake.

It's been said that there are no great wines, just great bottles. Maybe there are no great restaurants, just great meals.

J

[molto e]

John,

Actually, we found your list helpful and we loved Bristol. I wish I had taken this menu to see if you would have found it as pleasant as you had in the past.

Fresh_a- if you had this experience I do not think that you would have been happy about it and this was my report on our experience.

Molto E

[pierre45]

John,

          Actually, we found your list helpful and we loved Bristol. I wish I had taken this menu to see if you would have found it as pleasant as you had in the past.

Fresh_a- if you had this experience I do not think that you would have been happy about it and this was my report on our experience.

Molto E

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I went to ZE just when it opened .The food then was mostly a la plancha choices and pastas.It was quite tasty but it was not french.It was like beeing in a new york

restaurant.Based on the pictures todays ZE looks like a different restaurant.IT has adopted all the latest trends i.e foam and decorative plates.Obviousely its not delivering.

[John Whiting]

I haven't eaten at ze, and I haven't yet been disappointed in a recommendation of John T's. But whatever the quality, I'm becoming increasingly unhappy with elaborate sculptural arrangements on a plate. They seem to be designed for maximum air exposure, so that cold dishes are warm and hot dishes tepid before you're half way through eating them.

Functionally, the best service is hot or cold food served in heated or cooled containers to keep them that way, with only the garnish already dished up. The problem is that food spread out on a large plate looks like a more generous portion. In some restaurants, a closed container of appropriate size would make it more obvious that you're getting a tasting portion for the price of a plat.

Of course, when the portions are that small, they haven't time to change temperature before you've finished eating. I'm reminded of the old restaurant joke:

Waiter: How did you find your steak, sir?

Diner: Easy! I moved a pea and there it was!

EDIT: Of course, if the portions are of what used to be normal size and compactness, the food will keep itself at the correct temperature on a single plate.

In Switzerland, the main dish used to come in a casserole containing two full portions. One was served to you and the other kept hot until you had finished the first. You did not serve yourself, but waited--never for long. If you were able to finish the second helping--each of them generous--you had merely shown yourself to be normal.

The paucity of fat Swiss must have been due to the topography.

Edited August 28, 2005 by John Whiting (log)

[raisab]

I ate at Ze back in April and even though I was not impressed by it, the food was acceptable. Maybe it is because it was not what I was expecting in Paris. It was pretty though."

I think the thought that, "There are no great restaurants, just great meals" is probably quite accurate.

Edited August 28, 2005 by raisab (log)

[Ptipois]

Ze Kitchen Gallery never worked for me, or maybe I never was a worthy customer for it, but there you have it, I just hate the place. I find it pretentious, overpriced and self-conscious, the food overcomplicated, and sometimes completely raté. I too confess having a problem with the snot, excuse me, the foams. Some chefs make them right (the Pourcels, Adria), some don't. The tastes fight instead of harmonizing. There is just too much brain juice on the plates and not enough simple pleasure. I think this kind of research is okay as long as the chef always controls the situation. I don't think Mr. Ledeuil does.

Once, at Ze, I ordered some sucking pig a la plancha. Don't you expect sucking pig to be somewhat tender, even melting, at least a bit caramelized by the plancha? This one was almost raw, tough, rubbery, unseared and, in one word, a very sad thing. The meat was hardly edible and the skin was inedible. I kindly told the chef I had been disappointed with this dish, and I explained why. He looked at me down his nose, saying that he did not understand, this sucking pig was perfectly allright, he cooked it himself. He seemed to resent my comment very much. I gave up. I never came back.

[Bux]

. . . .  I kindly told the chef I had been disappointed with this dish, and I explained why. He looked at me down his nose, saying that he did not understand, this sucking pig was perfectly allright, he cooked it himself. He seemed to resent my comment very much. I gave up. I never came back.

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I told a chef in Lyon why I was disappointed in a dish of monk fish. He explained the process of marination and cooking that produced the result that left me disappointed, as if knowing how he ruined the fish (in my opinion) would make it right. I learned never to marinate monk fish in red wine overnight before overcooking it the next day. But yes, the color was interesting.

It's never about the foams, it's about the taste. Foam is simply another form of messenger.

Edit: Spelling

Edited September 1, 2005 by Bux (log)

[John Whiting]

I told a chef in Lyon why I was disappointed in a dish of monk fish. He explained the process of marination and cooking that produced the result that left me disappointed, as if knowing how he ruined the fish (in my opinion) would make it right.

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Are we approaching the moment when chefs, like avant-garde artists, will tell us openly that their creations are not designed to give us pleasure, but to challenge our preconceptions? That their primary purpose is self-expression? That , for the sake of enlightenment, we must accept discomfort, even suffering? The next stage will be hotel rooms with missing windows, cold showers and lumpy beds. Edited August 30, 2005 by John Whiting (log)

[John Talbott]

I told a chef in Lyon why I was disappointed in a dish of monk fish. He explained the process of marination and cooking that produced the result that left me disappointed, as if knowing how he ruined the fish (in my opinion) would make it right.

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Are we approaching the moment when chefs, like avant-garde artists, will tell us openly that their creations are not designed to give us pleasure, but to challenge our preconceptions? That their primary purpose is self-expression? That , for the sake of enlightenment, we must accept discomfort, even suffering? The next stage will be hotel rooms with missing windows, cold showers and lumpy beds.

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I have two divergent thots: first, this thread is in danger of becoming dominated by those of us so white-haired and creaky that we actually ate with M. Point, Pere Bise, Lamellois, Bocuse and saw M Guerard take off for he hinterlands and G/M push innovation and tasted the birth of Senderens, Ducasse, Gagniere, Passard. For us the danger is they represented the good old days. Second, some of the young guys play the equivalent of too too far out music, so dissonant and cacaphonal as to be jarring; their stuff pushes the envelope tooooo far (Gilles latest, L'Astrance, La Famille's "progress". But there is a middle, solid, less precicious ground represented by Cerisaie, Maison du Jarden, dare I say it Ze, Temps au Temps, Lauriston, db, etc.

Edited October 14, 2005 by John Talbott (log)

[John Whiting]

Second, some of the young guys play the equivalent of too too far out music, so dissonant and cacaphonal as to be jarring; their stuff pushes the envelope tooooo far ...

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This immediately runs into the problem of what exactly is too far. There are certain inherited preferences such as a liking for sweetness and a dislike of bitterness, but even these can be set aside. Ultimately, the foundations of taste in food are 100% culturally determined. A quick glance through Calvin W. Schwabe's Unmentionable Cuisine demonstrates that there is no possible combination of ingredients or cooking methods which has not at some time been considered to be not only acceptible, but eminently desireable. This even applies to certain foods that are downright poisonous.

In music, "unacceptable dissonance" once included Beethoven's late quartets. As for the motets of Gesualdo...

One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

[molto e]

I have two divergent thots: first, this thread is in danger of becoming dominated by those of us so white-haired and creaky that we actually ate with M. Point, Pere Bise, Lamellois, Bocuse and saw M Guerard take off for he hinterlands and G/M push innovation and tasted the birth of Senderens, Ducasse, Gagniere, Passard.  For us the danger is they represented the good old days.  Second, some if the young guys play the equivalent of too too far out music, so dissonant and cacaphonal as to be jarring; their stuff pushes the envelope tooooo far (Gilles latest, L'Astrance, La Famille's "progress".  But there is a middle, solid, less precicious ground represented by Cerisaie, Maison du Jarden, dare I say it Ze, Temps au Temps, Lauriston, db, etc.

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John,

I would love to try M.Guerard's steak cooked in foie fat and wish I would have had the opportunity to try some of the other talents that you mentioned, but my meal at Ze could not measure up with their talent. I know you did not have the type of experience that my group had there, but it was not acceptable on many levels. Whether or not one pushes the culinary envelope was it tasty-NO, was the service good-No and would I go back to give them another try-WHY. At the end of the day what ever style of the chef did we find the taste good and we did not here. This chef has too many divergent flavors on the plate. The main character gets upstaged by a bunch of supporting flavors rather than complimented by them.

Molto E

[Ptipois]

This immediately runs into the problem of what exactly is too far.

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What about "what is not good to eat" for a definition?

I am an enthusiastic admirer of creativity in cooking when the process is mastered. Even a dispalatable dish can be likable when it does blow your mind, Adria-style. But a ruined suckling pig is (to my mind) an unforgivable thing, especially if the chef won't hear about it; a monkfish marinated overnight in red wine is a joke, and a failed dish is already a sad thing to behold: even more so when it is a failed "creative" dish. Our palate is not binary, it can understand dissonance to a certain point. But it can also make the difference between clever dissonance and pretentious cacophony.

[John Whiting]

What about "what is not good to eat" for a definition?

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That begs the question. Those of us who participate in this forum are conditioned by classical European cuisine in ways we're not even aware of. Oriental tastes (before the Western invasion) differed radically from our own, let alone those of African tribes. To set our taste as the standard, we must inexorably declare our cultural superiority to those who differ from us. (That's an intellectually arguable position, but a highly unfashionable one.)

To bring it closer to home, there are now strong differences as to how thoroughly cooked a bird or a piece of meat should be. I don't like meat that's almost impossible to get off the bone, but many highly regarded chefs serve it that way. They believe that the taste and texture are altered too much by further cooking, and that this is a defect. I don't.

[pierre45]

I am an enthusiastic admirer of creativity in cooking when the process is mastered. Even a dispalatable dish can be likable when it does blow your mind, Adria-style. But a ruined suckling pig is (to my mind) an unforgivable thing, especially if the chef won't hear about it; a monkfish marinated overnight in red wine is a joke, and a failed dish is already a sad thing to behold: even more so when it is a failed "creative" dish. Our palate is not binary, it can understand dissonance to a certain point. But it can also make the difference between clever dissonance and pretentious cacophony.

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I quite agree.Innovative cooking is very difficult.Only a truly creative chef with an inner sense of what's right is succesful.Currently the most avant garde pursue a more intelectual approch,sensual pleasure is delegated to old fashion . they use food as a media for abstract art.i.e Adria.

[Ptipois]

That begs the question. Those of us who participate in this forum are conditioned by classical European cuisine in ways we're not even aware of.

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Hm, I think I disagree with that point. Which, anyway, doesn't change anything to Ze Kitchen Gallery's intrinsic problem. I happen to prefer non-classical cuisines, and non-European cuisines to classical European cuisines. I believe this makes me dislike the confusion food at Ze all the more, knowing some of the non-European influences that the chef has tried to jam into his preparations.

[Ptipois]

[To bring it closer to home, there are now strong differences as to how thoroughly cooked a bird or a piece of meat should be. I don't like meat that's almost impossible to get off the bone, but many highly regarded chefs serve it that way. They believe that the taste and texture are altered too much by further cooking, and that this is a defect. I don't.

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Chef cuisine, especially when it tries to reach the stars/supreme refinement/creativity/etc., sometimes has a tendency to become shallow, disincarnate and elitist. One can just deplore this without trying to find excuses for the chefs. That's what I choose to do.

Sometimes, cuisine is no longer food. There are two ways of doing this: the right one and the wrong one. Only your palate is the judge. What else could be?

Edited August 30, 2005 by Ptipois (log)

[John Whiting]

Only your palate is the judge. What else could be?

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Ignoring the sources of ingredients, which involve questions of Third World Poverty and food miles, how we actually prefer our food to be prepared and served is one of the few decisions we make whose outcome harms no one. In many ways, I'm a compulsive moralist, but where cuisine is concerned, I acknowledge no obligation except my own pleasure. The panoply of Paris bistros gives me more joy per euro than any other place I know. If I lived there, I might become bored with it--perhaps after half a century.

[molto e]

Only your palate is the judge. What else could be?

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Ignoring the sources of ingredients, which involve questions of Third World Poverty and food miles, how we actually prefer our food to be prepared and served is one of the few decisions we make whose outcome harms no one. In many ways, I'm a compulsive moralist, but where cuisine is concerned, I acknowledge no obligation except my own pleasure. The panoply of Paris bistros gives me more joy per euro than any other place I know. If I lived there, I might become bored with it--perhaps after half a century.

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John,

I can assure you that you would have received no pleasure in what we were served at ZE. Whether this meal was in Paris, Dallas or a high school cafeteria, I would not have enjoyed it-in fact tater tots in the high school cafeteria can be quite good. Many chefs preach taste, taste, taste prior to sending food out and whatever palate felt this good has a different compass than mine

Molto E

[Bux]

To be fair to my young chef from Lyon, five of our six dishes--two appetizers, one main course and two desserts--were pleasing, but when the waiter asked about my monk fish, I had to say it was dry and that I did not appreciate the texture. It was actually interesting and gratifying to have the chef come out and discuss the dish with me. At this point, it was my inadequacy in the langugage that prevented a deeper discussion. Were I more fluent in French, we might have gone on to discuss the effects of the red wine on the texture of the fish and exactly why I was displeased. While I found it hard to believe he had tasted the result and liked it enough to serve his guests, I know full well that taste is very subjective.

The restaurant, by the way, was in a neighborhood convenient to where we were at lunch time and on a list compiled from posts on this forum. As I recall, the poster was one whose opinions seemed reasonable.

As for tastes conditioned by classical European cuisine, I'm not so sure how important that is, or rather in what ways it is important. I've had enough classic French food to re-evaluate my position. I am open to a greater variety of tastes than I might have been a generation ago, but I'm still unpleased by what some try to pass as "fusion." On the other hand, and without enough background to appreciate how much a dish owes to classic Spanish cooking, I've been pleased all over (but not all the time) in Spain by dishes that are rustic and simple and by dishes that might appear absurdly creative until one tastes the results.

I've not eaten in Ze Kitchen Galerie.

[John Whiting]

...I'm still unpleased by what some try to pass as "fusion."

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So am I, but historically, fusion cuisine is the only kind there is. When the time scale is slow enough, we scarcely notice. The evidence is in my Oxford Food Symposium paper.