Agar and other alternative gelling agents

[nancyellen]

Hey folks! I have a party for 200 coming up, and I want to use agar agar instead of liquid pectin. The recipe calls for 9 oz. of pectin, so do I add powdered agar agar to a certain amount of liquid to get the same effect? Thanks

[jackal10]

They behave rather differently.

Agar when set has a high melting point, and doesn't dissolve so you get a different mouth feel. You can make high-temperature jellies...

Agar set much more quickly, like in the pan unless you are quick

Agar doesn't set well with acid additions or flavours.

[ducphat30]

In my experience, using eden brand flake agar, to get a jelly consistency I used 2.5 tablespoons to 4 cups of a non-acidic liquid. Meaning it wasn't straight lemon juice, but it did have meyer lemon juice, zest and a little bit of sugar. We buzzed it with a hand blender and passed it through a chinois. Honestly it didn't come out like jelly, it was a little bit different. It might help us to help you if you gave us a little bit better idea of what exactly you want to thicken and to what degree?

[nancyellen]

Hey, it's nancyellen again. What I want to thicken is a red pepper jelly, although I'm not looking to have it at a jelly consistency - more like a thick sauce. Thanks for the tip on how much powder you put in the liquid.

[ducphat30]

Have you considered using pectin? Don't quote me on this, but if I remember correctly 20grams of pectin to 1 liter of liquid makes a very nice consistency of a sauce.

[nancyellen]

Thanks for the pectin recommendation, because I can get my hands on that just as easily as I can the agar agar.

[kenteoh]

Just wondering, is it possible to substitute gelatin with agar agar when making panna cotta?

For personal reasons I can't use beef derived gelatin and it's a bit hard getting pork derived gelatin here, so I'm thinking of using agar agar.

I wouldn't mind using other stuff besides agar agar to make it as long as its widely available. Hope you guys can help me out.

[Matsu]

Dreidoppel makes a product called 'Doppelgel A' which is based

on carrageen (similar to agar). I've used it in the past and it is

a very good product. I believe it's distributed by Eurosource Gourmet

www.Eurosourcegourmet.com

[Bicycle Lee]

I have found that agar can replace gelatin in virtually every recipe that calls for gelatin....the conversions are a little sketchy because everyone seems to have an opinion on how much agar to how much gelatin, but the results are basically the same...plus the agar sets at low temps and will hold up to something like 120 degrees whereas beef gelatin will liquify at room temp.

hope this helps.

[Steve Martin]

Gels and jellies here. Masterclass

27C would be a nice warm room though.

[kenteoh]

Thanks for your help, people. I will try experimenting with my agar amounts to get the right texture.

[ducphat30]

Using the eden brand agar agar flakes, I have found that 2/3 of a tablespoon, approximately, to 1 cup of liquid makes a nicely textured panna cotta. We did it with coconut milk for a vegan menu. Steeped a lot of spices, sugar, and vanilla bean in coconut milk. Strained it, added the agar, brought it to a boil, simmered for a few minutes, stirring a lot. It has a tendency to stick to the bottom then blended it for a 15 seconds, passed it through a chinois into molds. You have to work quickly, because it will set up extremely fast. I found that it works really well in small batches, because of how quickly the agar sets up. I know the eden brand suggests 1 tablespoon to 1 cup, but IMO that is too hard of a set.

[Bicycle Lee]

Alright...after many experiments, I have found that literally no one has a reliable idea of how much agar gels how much liquid. One person said one tablespoon per 2 cups...not even close...So does ANYone have an idea of how much agar it takes to gel a liquid? I'm talking a firm, yet not too firm gel...

Also, does ANYone know the conversions from gelatin sheets to agar powder?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Edited June 9, 2004 by Bicycle Lee (log)

[fimbul]

I dunno exact numbers, but, from my experience a tablespoon of powdered agar agar will gel anything that's not too acidic. I use "a pinch" to gel a "a cup or three," depending.

I should note I only play with the stuff in a dilletantish, Mr. Wizard wanna-be way. After getting excited about the possibilities of the stuff, I remembered, "O yeah. I fuckin' HATE Jello."

That said, I did find a use for jello recently. I made spring rolls of braised rabbit, slow-roasted tomatoes, and fennel, and used agar agar to gel tomato water enough to make it a dipping sauce. I added a tiny sprinkle of the stuff to a cup of tomato water spiked with sea salt and a drop of white wine vinegar, heated the solution just to boiling, and let it set a bit. Then I pureed the gel to soften it up into a saucey-sorta thing.

[maxmillan]

Here's info from "Healing with Whole Foods", by Paul Pitchford:

1 kanten bar = 1/4 tsp powder = 3 tblsp light flakes = 5 tblsp dark flakes.

1 kanten bar will gel 2 cups liquid.

Uses: Pies, fruit desserts, jams, aspics, and vegetable molds.

Notes: Agar will not set in distilled and wine vinegars or foods with large amounts of oxalic acid (spinach, chocolate, rhubarb.)

Edited June 9, 2004 by maxmillan (log)

[chefseanbrock]

i use 8 grams of powdered agar to 2 cups of liquid and it works every time

sean

[chefwoody]

Definitely a great idea for agar agar, buzz it in a spice grinder before you add it to liquid to reduce the "fish-eyes." And, if the recipe has any sugar in it, combine the agar agar with the sugar before adding it to the liquid to further help dispersion.

Chef Sean is on the right track: when you're working with stuff like agar, work in grams, not Tablespoons. Even ounces will give you a quite variable result.

Experiment! Start with Sean's ratio, and if it is too firm or too soft, adjust up or down. Then you can establish reliable baselines for future use.

[Gifted Gourmet]

agar to gelatin ratios .... mid page actually

[joshalow]

I've been asked to make a fondant covered cake for Kosher/Vegetarian event,and since regular gelatin contains pork, I can't use that to make the fondant. When using the Sea Vegetable gelatin, would I treat it, with the same proportions, etc. as the regular powder gelatin?

[vinelady]

I use it the same, but have not used it in Fondant.

[Tepee]

Gosh, Sharon, I don't know...I just don't know if you can use agar-agar instead of gelatin. They have different texture/elasticity, ya know. Jellies made from gelatin wobbles whereas the agar-agar ones do not. You can melt gelatin jelly in your mouth but you need to sort of bite into agar-agar ones.

I'd say it would be safer to get Kosher Gelatin. Although Kosher and Halal is not exactly the same thing, Kew (another Malaysian Muslim eGulleteer) managed to find gelatin from Pakistan made from fish bones, I think.

But, if you're game to experiment with agar-agar, please let me know the outcome. Wishing you the best.

[helenjp]

If you're going to use it, definitely experiment!!!

My late first husband wrote his PhD thesis on the properties of agar gels. From a cooking point of view, it's worth knowing that agar gels start to release the water that they have absorbed, so that after 1-2 days, your shrinking agar gel is sitting in a pool of water. I'd be afraid that it might make the fondant weep.

There are commercially used gelatins such as fish gelatin, and occasionally I see chicken or pork gelatin, but I don't know where to obtain them.

[JustKay]

You might want to look at the marshmallow thread as stscam and some others have posted about Emes Kosher Jel.

Yes, I can get fish gelatine. They're imported from Pakistan. And so far, I think they work just like the pork gelatine because I have not had to alter any of the recipes that uses 'regular' gelatine.

[joshalow]

Thanks everyone. I went ahead and made up a batch of fondant using my regular recipe, substituting the agar for the gelatin, in the same amount and proportions. Tepee, those were my concerns about using the agar- would it make the fondant set up much too hard. While mixing it up, it seemed like it was going to work, but while playing with it after letting the fondant sit a few hours, I can see bits and pieces of the agar in the fondant, which obviously I don't want. I also noticed, as you mentioned Helen, that the fondant seemed somewhat shiny (weepy) after sitting a few hours. I will have to see what happens overnight with it. i will try it again to see if I can get the agar to dissolve completely if not I will have to see if I can get some of the Kosher gelatin locally (although, then I don't know if it'll be suitable for the vegetarians of this group).

[JustKay]

I'm not sure about the Emes Kosher gelatin, Imentioned it because it is said to behave like 'regular' gelatine.

Kojel is another brand of Kosher gelatin and from the ingredients list, it looks like it might be vegetarian. But this brand won't work for making marshmallows.