Napa/Sonoma winery suggestions

[Howie]

Hi there, Wine board!

I surfed around in here and in the CA board, and was surprised to see that a thread like this hadn't been started yet. I'm worried that maybe it's one of those topics that's beaten to the death like a dead horse, but I think I'll give it a shot.

I am an amateur wine collector and visiting Napa/Sonoma for the first time in a long while this summer for 3-4 days. I'm looking to plan out our days in a organized way and try to be as proactive as possible so we have a great time and taste a bunch of great vino.  Admittedly, I know much more about European wine than American (I know, how unpatriotic of me).

I'm looking for wineries that are very open to eager tasters, great people, a beautiful layout, and great wine that ideally would be on the more difficult side to find in an East Coast wine store. I've been doing some brainstorming and have thought Rafanelli, Ridge, and Silver Oak would all fit this category. Any suggestions (or comments on those that I'm thinking about) would be more than appreciated. You guys are the best!

[tommy]

prager's port works, in napa.  a wonderful, personal experience.  plan to have food right before or certainly right after, as you'll no doubt be feeling pretty good.

[Pan]

I must preface this by saying that I am not much of a wine connoiseur, so keep that in mind. However, if you do have a chance to drop by Vittoria Sattui Vineyards in St. Helena, I'd be curious to know what you think. My brother and I visited their vineyard only because I liked the look of the main building on the brochure the car-rental place gave us. It looked like an old Tuscan or Umbrian brick house. Anyway, they gave us a free tasting. We found their red wines odd, but we liked their whites. I liked their Muscat wine so much that, though I hadn't planned on buying wine on that trip, I bought a bottle and shared it with my parents, who also really enjoyed it. My brother liked their Johannisberg Riesling so much that he bought two bottles. All for whatever it's worth.

And yes, I think it would be nearly impossible to find those wines for sale anywhere other than the vineyard itself, certainly not on the East Coast. Unless things have changed in 3 years or so, you'd either have to buy it there or order a case to be mailed to you.

[Bux]

I don't have much to say about specific wineries. Can I ask if you made reservations ahead of time last time. When we were there a few years ago, we made some advance reservations, or rather we had someone with far better connections make them for us. There are wineries that are not open to the public. I wanted to see the building at Dominus because of the archtitecture and there was just no way I could get an appointment. There are other wineries that are not open to the general public, but are open to those who have connections via a distributor, well known retailer or sommelier. If you can get an in, they will be the most hospitable with a private tour. There are wineries that will only receive visitors who have made an appointment. Then there are the wineries that are open to the public, but will treat you differently if you make an advance reservation. Sometimes there are even levels of hospitality within that. You show up at the door and get hustled through with a large group and get a glass of wine, or maybe pay to taste wines. Those with appointments get a better grade of tour and treatment. Those with connections and an appointment might get a very serious tasting session or a range of wines including better ones. Then there are wineries that basically operate bars. There is no tour, but there's a tasting room, often with a fee for each wine.

Wine Spectator has from time to time published articles on wineries and on touring the wine country. That's one place to do some research.

Should you want some culture and have an interest in contemporary art, Hess Collection has a fine museum gallery on the premises. Hess, is a Swiss art collector with a considerable collection of modern art. It was quite a relief to see part of his collection as a respite from the godawful stuff in the "galleries" in Napa Valley devoted to tourist schlock.

[Beachfan]

Russian River itinerary: Martinelli, is easy to get to and excellent. Then get a map and then over the bridge (it's a few turns and a little tricky) to Rochioli, then Ridge, Raffenelli and finish at Ferrari Carano. The best sceneray of all the wine routes, and some of the best wine.

Valley of the Moon Itinerary: (Closest to SF) Start in Sonoma and go to Ravenswood. Then get on the Valley of the Moon Road and stop at BR Cohn, Arrowood, Chateau St. Jean and St. Francis. If you have time and capacity, you can fit in Kunde in the middle. You can do it in reverse order if your approaching from Santa Rosa. WHen at Chateau St. Jean, be sure to ask for the Reserve tasting room - it costs, but it's worth it. It's 3 tastes for $x or something like that. If you are with someone, they might split tastes and you can do 6 different wines.

Silverado Trail (Napa) Start in Calistoga, check out Vincent Arroyo (a sleeper, great if you like Petite Syrah), Chateau Montelena, Phelps, Silverado and Caymus. Phelps is by appointment only and is my top recommendation for tour/hospitality/quality of the wine/incredibly beautiful location. Don't miss it. Also Chateau Montelena is beautiful for a picnic, (picnic is by reservation only, idyllic setting by a lake).

Edit 7/21; based on recent visit, Arroyo was disappointing (no Petite Syrah to taste, other wines so, so). Phelps as good as ever.

Heart of Napa (expect a ton of traffic); Heitz, Silver Oak, St. Clement,Beringer (upstairs in the founders room, expect to pay $$, but worth it). Monticello used to be delicous but I haven't been in a long time. Mondavi has a great tour. Their wines have slipped, but if you do go, go to the Tokalon Room (again, pay $$).

As mentioned above, Satuii is interesting (more for the cheese than the wine, although their Madeira is excellent). Hess makes good wine and is very interesting for the art. So is Clos Pegase (wine isn't bad, interesting collection of ancient wine glasses).

I assume Opus One only has there 1998 to taste. In which case I'd pass. They charge $20 or so for one taste. The 1996 was definitely worth it. Surprisingly, 1997 was not as good, and 1998 isn't much of a vintage. But you might want it for the experience.

Let me know if you have any specific questions on wineries that have been around for a few years (I moved away 4 years ago).

[Howie]

Thanks, everyone--Such a bank of information!

Bux--I'm in the process of planning now, and am trying to get one or two of my local wine retailers (I live in NYC) that I have good relationships with to try and plan a private tour/appointment with some of the wineries. I'm not sure how well I'll fare, but from what I hear, it's worth a shot. I did not do this last time, as I was just a casual tourist.

Last time, we started the day in Domaine Chandon with some bubbly (very nice grounds and at the bottom of Napa so fairly easy to get to), Hess (Beachfan, you're right--beautiful art collection and I love how they mix in views of the wine-making and bottling rooms), Stag's Leap (small tasting room and winery, I think this experience would have benefited from an appointment), and Mondavi (Beachfan-I got to sample a bunch of the old cab.  reserves in the Tokalon Room, the best tasting experience I had in Napa).

Beachfan, your routes are extremely helpful. I am definitely going to do the Russian River itinerary. I know less of Rochioli but have had good experiences with Ridge, Rafanelli, and Ferrari Carano. At Ridge, can one taste vintages of MonteBello or is it more of the other labels (ie Lytton Springs)?

And your suggestions on the Silverado Trail are great, too. I hadn't even thought of Phelps but will try my best and make an appointment. I have literally no experience with their wines, so it should be great.

Thanks again, everyone... If in my planning I come up with something new/interesting, I will make sure to pass it on.

[Kim WB]

Also, if there will be anyone in your group that needs to learn about the wine process, I would suggest Berringer. Granted, not the finest wine on the tour, but years ago WSpectator did a review of the tours, and they suggested this one for learning...and truthfully, I was glad we went, becasue what I learned there was valuale and made me enjoy and understand the other vineyards. It's wine making 101, so if you know it, skip it, but if not consider it.

Also, we loved Gunlach Bunsheau and Cakebread was extraordinary.

[tommy]

sterling up on the hill is ok.  it's a fun tram ride at the very least.

there is an italian sounding winery right at the enterance of sonoma.  i'll try to remember the name.  at any rate, it's a nice place for lunch.  it's rather large, but they have plenty of tables that overlook a valley.  also, they have lots of prepared foods and breads and all sorts of stuff to eat.  it's good in a pinch, that's for sure.  it's not a "spread out a blanket under a tree" kind of place, but it was enjoyable.  

david bynum in sonoma is off the beaten track, and had a couple of decent wines.  nothing much to the room or the grounds, but the wine was good.

[Steve Klc]

Since you've been to Napa before, you know a few things that first-timers might not: namely, it is very crowded, difficult to get around efficiently and you end up tasting much less than you think you ought to.

I'd suggest you consider your route or itinerary once you determine where you're staying--or the reverse--just realize the two will be linked and affect your enjoyment.  I can still remember what it was like stuck in traffic trying to head back to our Calistoga bungalow/spa to shower and change before dinner.  Plus, you haven't mentioned the role food will play in your schedule--are you planning to hit restaurants for lunch and dinner?  Often, we scheduled our wine tasting itinerary after first deciding where to stay and second where and when we would eat.  Again, you might reorder those priorities--but my point is that in Napa they are all inextricably linked.

My first trip or two to the region I stayed down near the city of Napa and ventured out to Sonoma or up valley.  My last few trips we've changed direction and stayed in or near Calistoga and found we enjoyed that better for alot of reasons.

My two favorite recent Napa tasting experiences and tours were at Chappellet Vineyards off the beaten path in St. Helena and Schramsberg Vineyards, very near Calistoga.  Chappellet would qualify as something more tightly allocated to stores on the East coast, though savvy restaurants have several of their wines on their lists, while Schramsberg is widely distributed on the East coast.

Since you've been to Chandon it might be nice to compare a bubbly--and Schramsberg's sparkling wines are superb--and there is so much history and family involved with Schramsberg in the valley, many of their wines were provided for White House events and State dinners and their grounds are so beautiful.  You pay for a tasting but it is charming and worth it. Reserve in advance.

Chappellet is not as open to the public or walkins, but call ahead to request a tour and tasting.  Get really good directions as it is hidden after a long and windy drive away from the more touristy areas of Napa. There might be a charge (I did not pay) but it would be well worth it.  As I've written elsewhere, for me, Chappellet just might be the single best winery in the Valley, top to bottom, reds to whites to dessert wine.  If you are lucky, you will get Jon-Mark as your tour guide.  Martha Stewart just did a feature on the Chappellets, so I suspect there might be more public interest now and their tour might not be such a hidden gem anymore--nor as easy a reservation to secure.

Pack a picnic lunch if the timing works out for you, their grounds are quite nice.

Here are the links:

http://www.chappellet.com/

http://www.schramsberg.com/

[Steve Plotnicki]

Howie - One of the nicer tours is at Pride Mountain. It's one of the few wineries making wines at the "cult" level that allows visitors. They also sell wine there but the hard to get stuff will be long gone by the time you get there. It was the only tour I took in Napa where they walked us through the vineyards and explained how they planted them. And since I was there at the end of October, all the varietals except merlot which had been harvested a few days earlier were still on vine. Tasting fully ripe cabernet sauvignon, cab franc etc, right off the vine was interesting. A tour at the Peter Michael Winery just over the Sonoma County line (but in actually obly a few miles out of Calistoga) is also a great experience. Tasting their chardonnay out of the barrel before they blend the individual vineyards into a single cuvee will teach you more about Ca. chardonnay than you need to know.

[Howie]

Thanks again for the continued suggestions--the more data points, the better!

Steve KLC--you make a good point of needing to think about lodging, wineries, and dining all together. I must admit, I've been a bit scared about looking for affordable places to stay, in that the quick glance I took made it seem that $200 is a baseline room rate during peak season. I think I will follow your suggestions and stay in Calistoga--a bit off the heart of Napa and easy access to Sonoma. Any lodging suggestions there?

As far as dining goes, I think we are going to definitely do the French Laundry one night (and will definitely heed the warning by the CA boards and call early) but haven't decided about the other nights. We will eventually make it down to the Bay Area and are also planning on dinner at Chez Panisse. We have one bottle left of 1990 Salon and bringing it to Chez Panisse would be so special. I can not wait for this trip! For lunch, I think picnics and packing our own is the way to go.

Steve P--Pride sounds great; I read a bit more about it and walking through the vineyards and tasting the grapes sounds very educational and fun; this is exactly what we're looking for.

[Jim Dixon]

Glen Ellen, north of Sonoma proper, makes a nice stop. There's a community olive press next to the winery and just up the road is Jack London State Park, an interesting break from wine. You should also check out the Vella cheese tasting room just of the square in Sonoma.

Jim

[Howie]

Jim,

Great advice--thanks. Your reply prompts another question... Does anyone know of any other artisanal cheese makers in the area that would be a great visit? Maybe even get to sample some raw, unpasteurized stuff too... Jim, do they let you taste unaged, unpasteurized cheeses at Vella?

Forgot to add that we are going to try and visit the new culinary institute out there as well. Has anyone been?

Thanks!

[Beachfan]

Steve P's suggestions are top notch.  I would extend or modify the Napa itineraries to include them (drop Silverado and Arroyo if you need to).  Pride and Peter Michael are in the top 20% of the wineries mentioned.  I think they weren't open to the public a few years ago.

Calistoga is a great place to base yourself.  If arriving in SF, don't go through Napa, but go up to Santa Rosa on route 101 and cut over.  Saves a lot of time.

In the morning, do a mud bath or check out the geyser and Petrified Forest just outside Calistoga.  Pretty small scale, but fun and authentic.

The Mount View Hotel is nice there, and the restaurant was good (4 years ago).

Steve K is right about the horrible traffic.  Stick to the Silverado trail whenever possible, much, much better.

Odds are 100 - 1 on tasting Montebello at the Sonoma facility of Ridge.  Maybe only 30 -1 at their main place on the Peninsula.

If you do the Russian River, stop off in Healdsburg.  The Healdsburg bakery is exceptional, and the town is the way a California wine country burg should be.

The area immediately around Chez Panisse is called the Gourmet Ghetto.  Two highly recommended places - The Berkeley Cheese Board (see the California Borad) and North Berkely Wines' retail store.

When are you going?  I just decided to go in late June, and I'm salivating.  Please report back.

[Howie]

Beachfan,

'm sorry to say, but it looks like we are going to miss each other. We are heading out West the first week in August; we have about nine days to make it down the CA coast for a wedding in the LA/Orange County area. So tentatively thinking one or two days in the Bay Area (which we've been to more recently so don't need as much time), two or three days in Yosemite (which we've never been), three days in Napa/Sonoma, and then take our time driving down the coast and spending a night in Monterey. If we stick to this game plan, we may be able to visit the main Ridge facility instead.

I've heard about the Berkeley Cheeseboard, but have never been. I'm eager to check it out. The North Berkeley imports wine store looks like a must stop--I just briefly checked out their website. I'd love to give some of those single vineyard, small production champagnes a taste. I've purchased wines from K&L in SF on the Internet and want to see that store in person. While it seems in a totally different vein than NB wine store, do you think it's worth a visit?

[Ron Johnson]

Howie,

Skip Napa.  It is packed with tourists and the traffic can be horrible.  The wineries are inundated with people wanting to taste and many have started to charge for it.  If you are going to the French Laundry then make that your one foray into Napa and hit those wineries that you have your heart set on in the afternoon before your dinner reservation.  A whole day in Napa can drive you mad.

The better bet is Sonoma.  Make sure you hit Benziger off Arnold road.  They take you on a tractor up into the vineyards and explain how grapes are grown specifically for wine.  The tour is extremely hands-on and the Benziger family is super friendly.  

Also go to Healdsburg.  It is a neat little town with some surprisingly good restaurants and there are a multitude of wineries nearby.  I would also recommend Rafanelli.

[tommy]

Howie,

Skip Napa.  It is packed with tourists and the traffic can be horrible.  

on my last trip out, which was about a year ago, we stayed in sonoma.  however, we spent one day in napa.  i found that this worked out nicely.  napa still has some bright spots.  it's not *all* bad.  

[Steve Klc]

To pick up on what's been discussed in the above posts:

I disagree with Ron re: skipping Napa--there's still better food there--and Beachfan seems to agree with me about the Calistoga strategy.

Going the back way into Calistoga is fine--just don't do it at night.  It can be dark, dangerous and confusing, especially if you are driving late and you're tired. We stay at Carlin Country Cottages in Calistoga--not "luxury" but comfortable, reasonably priced with full kitchens surrounding a nice pool.  Here's the link:

http://www.carlincottages.com/

Locals put their families up at the El Bonita when they visit--707.963.3216--centrally located, inexpensive. Obviously, reservations way in advance are a must.

I still recommend Calistoga over Sonoma or Healdsburg and down valley.  It can be (comparatively) less expensive, you could do some of your own cooking with ingredients and artisinal breads from a nearby reasonably priced market. There are inexpensive and chic, pricey restaurant options along Calistoga's main drag, which you can walk to and along. There's a wonderful small underappreciated gem of a restaurant there that I've written elsewhere about--before Food & Wine outed them--the All Season's Cafe, where there is an attached wine shop and you can buy wines at retail for your meal there!  This place kicks Wappo's butt food and wine-wise, though eating out under the trellis is quite nice ambience at Wappo. Do lunch/brunch at Wappo and dinner at All Season's.

Don't taste wine at all the afternoon before the French Laundry, if you get a reservation.  Relax, take a spa in Calistoga, lounge poolside and try to contain your excitement.

I'm not as enamoured of Healdsburg, their nearby restaurants (Charlie Palmer?) or bakery (The Creamery.)  That whole town had a gimmicky faux feel to it.  It may be good for what it is, where it is, but otherwise, not.

[eatingmike]

Some of my Napa/Sonoma favorities. Apologies for repeats, I cut/pasted from an email I recently sent to someone with recommendations...

As far as wineries, I like to visit mostly smaller, off-the-beaten path, boutique kinds of places, because of the people we meet. For them wine is a labor of love and they usually produce smaller quantities of high-quality wine....  

Napa: Dutch Henry, Goosecross, Regusci, Chappelet, Sullivan, Vincent Arroyo, Chateau Montelena (gorgeous grounds), Sawyer, Graeser (very eccentric and funny owner), Vander Heyden (crazy dutchman but hilarious), Praeger Port Works (delicious if you like port wines), RMS is a brandy producer which has an outstanding tour as well. For sparking wines, try Domaine Chandon, Domaine Carneros, S. Anderson, and Frank Family Vineyards.

Sonoma (which I am less familiar with): Kunde, David Coffaro (tiny place, phone first, superb wines), Amphora (tiny place, phone first), Preston, Pezzi King

[Ron Johnson]

I am not sure why you would need to relax before a meal at French Laundry as you will be seated for up to four hours while you are dining there.

I don't find Healdsburg gimmicky at all, at least not more so than anything else in Northern California.  The town square is merely clean and populated with some nice little restaurants. Of which I do not consider Charlie Palmer's new place, and neither do the locals.  Nice places to eat are Tastings, Ravenous, and Manzanita.

Calistoga is the pure California experience complete with spas, mud baths, herbal remedies, smoothies, massages, and lots of money.  If thats your thing, you will likey very much.

In my experience the primary difference is that the wineries in Sonoma are very happy to see you and the wineries in Napa are very happy to see your money.

[Steve Klc]

And that's why we come to eGullet--to find out the places in Napa and elsewhere that will be happy to see you. This thread provides more than enough. (Of course, you could go to the Anderson Valley instead where they really, really will be happy to see you.)

Ron, somehow I personally managed to avoid "spas, mud baths, herbal remedies, smoothies, massages, and (spending) lots of money"  by doing research and asking around.  I did get a few artistic and design ideas from the too-pricey boutiques along the strip, though.  Of course those things are there if you choose to be diverted from the food and wine experience and yes, this was before eGullet was created to simplify things and help people tailor the right experience for them.  But I was lucky I had locals and local chefs to guide me--hence how I ended up at All Season's and discovered a young former French Laundry sous-chef cooking there under the radar, forward-thinking enough to hire a real pastry chef as well.

For me Calistoga was mere strategy, an affordable base station with easier access to restaurants and wineries down valley.  The excellent supermarket in Calistoga was key as well--we used our kitchen, which allowed us to eat simply and well "at home" when we didn't feel up to taking a meal out.

Do you know if any of those Healdsburg restaurants are online?  I haven't eaten at them--Tastings was still too newish and had good but mixed reviews--we heard the same things with Roux and Miramonte.  We decided to wait to try them.

Howie--on my trip last summer I did manage to spend some time at the CIA-Greystone campus.  Nice place to look at, not worth a detour unless you plan to take any wine class given there by Karen MacNeil--she is simply one of the most superb instructors I have ever experienced in any discipline. Otherwise, don't feel guilty skipping it.  Short of that, buy her book "The Wine Bible" if you feel the need to brush up a bit before your trip.

[Howie]

Steve K, I think you're right, there are more than enough suggestions here to give anybody new to the area a good start. I totally agree--by doing a good amount of legwork and research beforehand, we can manage to not fall into the tourist traps and paying too much. Thanks for the accomodation links--I think we are leaning towards staying in Calistoga.

Also, I just checked out the CIA-Greystone website. Karen MacNeil's 5 day wine program isn't offered while we're there (and we wouldn't be there long enough to do it anyway) but I haven't decided if this is a stop yet. There's so much other stuff to see and do.

Ron, as an alternative to Calistoga, where would you suggest instead?

[Ron Johnson]

Howie,

If you are looking for a place to go in Napa, then Calistoga is it.  Steve is right about it, I just prefer Sonoma and its little towns overall.  

Steve, you are right, with insider information you can miss the bad or touristy parts of any destination and find the local gems.  Maybe that is why you and I had different impressions of Healdsburg and Calistoga respectively.  I have a friend who lives right outside Healdsburg, and you got the inside scoop for your trip to Calistoga.

[Jim Dixon]

More info in this Sonoma cheese makers article

I haven't visited these cheesemakers in Sonoma, but sampled many of their cheese as the Ferry Terminal Plaza Farmers Mkt in SF...it's near the new ball park.

Jim

[CampBecca Chef]

Clos Pegase is a fun winery to visit.  It's near the CIA.  Hess, is out of the way, but worth the trip if you have time.  They have a little art gallery at the winery.  Opus is a must see.  Keep in mind the tasting fee is pretty stiff there.  Mondavi has an in-depth tour and tasting experience.  Requires reservations.  Arrowood in Sonoma is also very nice.  Enjoy yourself!