Drink Diet Soda and GAIN Weight!

[Chris Amirault]

Yep, just like the thread title says: a new study conducted over eight years asserts that diet sodas help you gain rather than lose weight. Click for the WebMD study.

"What didn't surprise us was that total soft drink use was linked to overweight and obesity[.] What was surprising was when we looked at people only drinking diet soft drinks, their risk of obesity was even higher."

In fact, when the researchers took a closer look at their data, they found that nearly all the obesity risk from soft drinks came from diet sodas.

"There was a 41% increase in risk of being overweight for every can or bottle of diet soft drink a person consumes each day[.]"

As an admitted regular consumer of Diet Coke, I'm quite stunned by this news. More iced coffee in my life, I guess!

Are there other diet soda drinkers out there who are floored by this?

[therese]

More from the article that clarifies things a bit:

Fowler is quick to note that a study of this kind does not prove that diet soda causes obesity. More likely, she says, it shows that something linked to diet soda drinking is also linked to obesity.

"One possible part of the explanation is that people who see they are beginning to gain weight may be more likely to switch from regular to diet soda," Fowler suggests. "But despite their switching, their weight may continue to grow for other reasons. So diet soft-drink use is a marker for overweight and obesity."

Too bad---for just minute there I thought perhaps that I might be able to lose weight by dropping diet sodas from my diet.

[TheFoodTutor]

I'm not surprised at all. Carbonated beverages help to empty the stomach faster, and the intense sweetness of diet sodas actually stimulates hunger and craving for sweets.

Just observing the behavior surrounding diet sodas makes this connection intuitive, don't you think? When people drink diet sodas, proudly labeled as containing "zero calories," they think that they can have all they want, and I notice that many people in restaurants who would normally only have one or two Cokes with a meal (one only if there are no free refills) will have 7 or 8 Diet Cokes. The phenomenon of diet sodas itself promotes gluttony.

Drink water when you're thirsty. Have a diet soda, or a regular soda now and then, as a treat. People weren't meant to suck syrup all day.

[Chris Amirault]

I think that the association of drinking diet soda with lots of junk food makes sense to me. However, I rarely eat junk food, yet often have one or two servings of Diet Coke throughout the day (especially if I'm cooking and crave a beer!). What therefore is useful (and, at least to me, counterintuitive) about this study is that the soda makes me have more cravings, not fewer....

Sounds like good ol' agua pura -- and of course coffee and tea -- are the solution.

[Mallet]

I think that the association of drinking diet soda with lots of junk food makes sense to me. However, I rarely eat junk food, yet often have one or two servings of Diet Coke throughout the day (especially if I'm cooking and crave a beer!). What therefore is useful (and, at least to me, counterintuitive) about this study is that the soda makes me have more cravings, not fewer....

Sounds like good ol' agua pura -- and of course coffee and tea -- are the solution.

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I'm pretty sure the real solution is to just drink that beer you've been craving .

[tommy]

seems to me to be a classic case of confusing causation with correlation. it sure does sell papers and website hits, though.

[Grub]

Fowler is quick to note that a study of this kind does not prove that diet soda causes obesity. More likely, she says, it shows that something linked to diet soda drinking is also linked to obesity.

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Okay, this makes a bit more sense -- this is a two-way causality, rather than a direct cause... Ie., you may as well conclude that obesity causes diet soda drinking, as diet soda causing obesity -- or that Jenny Craigh causes obesity...

Edit: Doh. What Tommy said.

Edited June 21, 2005 by Grub (log)

[Fat Guy]

Shocking new study finds that people on diets are likely to be fat.

[therese]

Shocking new study finds that people on diets are likely to be fat.

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Exactly.

Reminds of the studies that find that households without pet cats and dogs are more likely to have members allergic to those animals.

[Octaveman]

What really floors me is that this is a "new" study. Diet soda's have been out for what...30-40 years? Countless study's have been made on everything and a majority of them state some kind of new find. This is written as some kind of revelation...that people think they can lose weight drinking diet soda's.

I'm an avid Diet Coke drinker and am overweight. Not because I drink Diet Coke but because I eat a lot of fast food, pizza, and other extremely fattening foods. The fact that I drink diet coke is not why I go to these places to eat their fattening foods. I've been on Weight Watchers since January and have lost almost 40 lbs with 15 more to go to hit my goal. I still drink as much DC as before but now I'm eating better so the weight is falling off. Trying to link diet sodas to obesity based on the the "belief" of individuals that it will make them lose weight is not a scientific connection as the title of the article would suggest and the tone of the article in general would suggest. Sure they're taking in less calories by not drinking regular soda's but they're still eating the same old shit. These people who conducted the study didn't study diet soda causing obesity, the study just confirmed that people are just stupid to think that diet sodas will help them lose weight. Well thank you Captian Obvious. I guess they have to do something to pay the rent.

There are so many things said that were so incredibly stupid to me.

"...people who see they are beginning to gain weight may be more likely to switch from regular to diet soda," Fowler suggests. "But despite their switching, their weight may continue to grow for other reasons. So diet soft-drink use is a marker for overweight and obesity."

Diet soda is the marker for obesity? Didn't Fowler just say that despite switching, their weight continues to grow FOR OTHER REASONS? What if someone switched careers and continued to gain weight? What if someone stopped eating fruit and continued to gain weight? What if someone bought a new car and continued to gain weight? Wait a minute...new car, wants to drive more, excercises less, gains weight. NEW CARS CAUSE OBESITY. Now give me my $1.5 million dollar grant.

"That may be just what happens when we offer our bodies the sweet taste of diet drinks, but give them no calories. Fowler points to a recent study in which feeding artificial sweeteners to rat pups made them crave more calories than animals fed real sugar. "

That's because every living being needs calories to function. It's a no brainer that if you're being starved, you're going to be hungry. Did that study replace the calories with the rat pups that were given artificial sweeteners so that caloric intake of that group was the same as the others? My guess is no, so of course they were craving more calories...they were starving them. It's also well known that if you deprive yourself calories the body will reserve the energy and then when you do eat it will continue to reserve energy because it's now in starvation mode to protect itself. Thus you will gain weight.

"If you offer your body something that tastes like a lot of calories, but it isn't there, your body is alerted to the possibility that there is something there and it will search for the calories promised but not delivered," Fowler says.

Fowler is an idiot. Give me something that "tastes" like it has a lot of calories but doesn't deliver so my body will teach me a lesson and make me fat? So, if I only have a tiny TINY bite of cheesecake my body will react accordingly and make me fat? Shit, I'll just eat the whole pie then. Give me a @#$%@#$ break.

This study is crap. I will continue to drink Diet Coke, eat well and lose weight. Good luck to all those people that think they'll lose weight having a Big Mac combo large sized with a Diet Coke. Yeah...good luck with that.

The Food Tutor: The phenomenon of diet soda's does not promote gluttony. Drinking a lot of anything under your definition is gluttonous: "drink a lot of water if you're thirsty". If your thirsty, how can that be gluttony to drink a lot of water or diet coke for that matter? I drink a lot of diet coke because I am thirsty, because it tastes better than water, because it tastes better than regular soda, because I hate to pay $3 for one soda at a restaurant. Constantly overeating is a sign of gluttony, not drinking diet coke.

Chrisamirault: I do agree that people think that if they drank diet coke, they can eat the junk food they've always had. But it didn't take this study to point that out. This is nothing new. I don't see though how or why drinking diet soda's makes you have more cravings? It still comes down to caloric intake...drink something with no calories, you're body will eventually crave calories to sustain it's energy. Drink something with lot's of calories, you're body will be partially satisfied because it's receiving energy. Pretty obvious to me. Did I miss your point?

Tommy: Amen to that brother. You look at anything for 7-8 years and you can find just about anything you want to justify your cause. This study loosely reminds me of the caffiene study that first came out and said caffiene is bad for you. Then in the middle of the article way beyond the point that most people stop reading they say the level of caffiene tested in rats equals that of 150 cups of coffee a day for 20 years for it to adversly affect your body.

I guess I just hate when I read crap studies like this.

Bob

edited to say Holy Crap! I'm long winded...sorry.

Edited June 21, 2005 by Octaveman (log)

[TheFoodTutor]

The Food Tutor:  The phenomenon of diet soda's does not promote gluttony.  Drinking a lot of anything under your definition is gluttonous:  "drink a lot of water if you're thirsty".  If your thirsty, how can that be gluttony to drink a lot of water or diet coke for that matter?  I drink a lot of diet coke because I am thirsty, because it tastes better than water, because it tastes better than regular soda, because I hate to pay $3 for one soda at a restaurant.  Constantly overeating is a sign of gluttony, not drinking diet coke.

I didn't say "drink a lot of water if you're thirsty." I said "drink water if you're thirsty," meaning satisfy your thirst with water, and I stand by that statement, as I think drinking water is healthy for you. If your body is telling you it is thirsty, that means something specific.

My point of view about diet sodas promoting gluttony is based on what I've seen in my family, my friends and myself. Many people I've known who used to drink an occasional soda once in a while, or once a day, switched to drinking cases of sodas and 2-liters when they began drinking diet sodas. I fell prey to this, myself, when I started managing restaurants and had access to a soda fountain all day, so I'd just keep refilling my Diet Coke. After a number of months, I developed some problems with sleeping and my general health, so I went to see a doctor, who pointedly asked me how many sodas I was drinking per day. Now, in my case, I lost about 14 pounds in that time frame from overworking and lack of sleep, but I still think it's unhealthy to drink diet sodas when one is thirsty, so now I mostly drink water.

I know I have no shortage of controversial opinions, and I'm sure I'm often wrong. Heck, I even believe dieting, more than being correlated with overweight, causes weight gain. Or at least it does in the manner that most people diet, excluding the successful members of WW around here.

But what do I know?

[Chris Amirault]

Whoa, Nelly.... Let's just take this back down a notch.

Remember that this thread is about responses to the article discussing diet sodas and weight loss/gain. Let's stick to the topic and keep personal attacks out of the discussion.

And, yes, Octaveman, it is entirely possible for me to fail to see the very same points that are utterly obvious to you! Like The Food Tutor, I am quite regularly able to be quite thoroughly wrong!

[Octaveman]

Whoa, Nelly.... Let's just take this back down a notch.

Remember that this thread is about responses to the article discussing diet sodas and weight loss/gain. Let's stick to the topic and keep personal attacks out of the discussion.

And, yes, Octaveman, it is entirely possible for me to fail to see the very same points that are utterly obvious to you! Like The Food Tutor, I am quite regularly able to be quite thoroughly wrong!

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I wasn't trying to personally attack anyone...the story, yes, egulleteers, no. Nor was I trying to say you all are wrong. I was trying to understand points people made and/or to comment on them. I responded to the article then to what a few said about the article. If being personally attacked is the only thing people got out of my comments or questions then I humbly apologize. That was not my intention. After reading what I wrote, I could see how people may get the same impression. Sorry.

Sincerely,

Bob

[Jujubee]

I agree that this study doesn't really prove any cause/effect relationship between diet sodas and weight gain. The article itself states that. But I do think it at least warrants a follow-up study, given that the difference between regular soda and diet soda drinkers is so large. Could the follow-up study just show that there is no cause/effect relationship between diet soda and weight gain? Sure, and that would be fine. But to write this all off as stupid statistics is just as narrow minded as assuming this one study means diet soda causes weight gain.

I did weight watchers for over a year, and during that time one of the tips our leader gave us was if our weight loss was excruciatingly slow or had stopped, despite staying on program, to try cutting out artificial sweeteners. She didn't know why, but for some people avoiding artifical sweeteners made their weight loss go faster, despite eating the same number of points (for those of you that aren't familiar with the program, counting points is basically a method of counting calories). And for a lot of people on program while I was there, this worked. It didn't make sense from a mathematical perspective, after all, things like diet soda have no points, so theoretically it shouldn't affect weight loss. If it is really as simple as calories in minus calories out, this should not have had an effect. For myself, I know I lost more weight during weeks I ate my points in "whole" foods as opposed to weeks where I ate fewer vegetables, despite eating the exact same number of points.

Now, of course this is all anecdotal, and doesn't prove a thing. But personal experiences like this, combined with interesting correlations (not causality) as illustrated by the study in the article, merit follow-up, not dismissal as automatically bunk science.

[Bernaise]

so....does drinking lots of diet soda make one diabetic? Does diet soda lead to diabetes? Are people more prone to diabetes more likely to consume diet soda?

My problem is with the amount of salt and caffeine in the sodas. Water is refreshing but after a few glasses a bit boring. Sometimes to distract myself from overeating I will enjoy a fruit flavoured sparkling water-or a squeeze of lemon in water works.

But sometimes you need something something.

And only bubbly salty caffeinated goodness will do.

Frankly, I'm enjoying a summer cold at the moment and have discovered sugar free "crystal light" slurpees at the 7-11. My throat thanks me even if my liver is less than enchanted

[Toliver]

...Water is refreshing but after a few glasses a bit boring.  Sometimes to distract myself from overeating I will enjoy a fruit flavoured sparkling water-or a squeeze of lemon in water works.

But sometimes you need something something.

And only bubbly salty caffeinated goodness will do.

Frankly, I'm enjoying a summer cold at the moment and have discovered sugar free "crystal light" slurpees at the 7-11. My throat thanks me even if my liver is less than enchanted

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I agree about the water. I've found that by making it iced water, it's more satisfying and not as boring.

As for summer treats (and bringing this sort of back on topic) I'm diggin' the Diet Pepsi Slurpees at my local 7-Eleven.

[TPO]

I have some friends who drink two or more diet sodas a day, and their response to the question "Why?" is "I like to eat my calories." So for them there is a perception that drinking a diet soda "frees up" the calories that would otherwise be consumed by drinking regular soda. If instead they though of diet soda as a substitute for water they might not eat the 300 or so calories that they "saved."

[tommy]

who wants to pay dr. fowler for another 8 years for a follow-up study?

[Fat Guy]

So for them there is a perception that drinking a diet soda "frees up" the calories that would otherwise be consumed by drinking regular soda.

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That's not a perception. That's a fact. If you drink a 1-calorie can of sugar-free soda instead of a 180-calorie can of soda-with-sugar, you will drink 179 calories less. If you're eating a 600-calorie meal, and you switch from soda-with-sugar to sugar-free soda, you can have 179 more calories worth of food and in the end consume the same number of calories. To see those calories as "freed up" is not at all unreasonable -- it's just simple arithmetic. Likewise, if you go to McDonald's and order a Big Mac Extra Value Meal with sugar-free soda, your meal will have fewer calories than the exact same Big Max Extra Value Meal with soda-with-sugar. In fact, the difference in calories between the two orders will be exactly the difference in calories between the two sodas. Now, if some people see sugar-free soda as "license" to eat more calories than the number of calories they save by drinking sugar-free soda instead of soda-with-sugar, that's something interesting to know. But it's hard to swallow the notion that such behavior means diet soda causes obesity. Rather, it would tend to demonstrate that people aren't very good at estimating the number of calories in food.

[TPO]

So for them there is a perception that drinking a diet soda "frees up" the calories that would otherwise be consumed by drinking regular soda.

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That's not a perception. That's a fact. If you drink a 1-calorie can of sugar-free soda instead of a 180-calorie can of soda-with-sugar, you will drink 179 calories less. If you're eating a 600-calorie meal, and you switch from soda-with-sugar to sugar-free soda, you can have 179 more calories worth of food and in the end consume the same number of calories. To see those calories as "freed up" is not at all unreasonable -- it's just simple arithmetic. Likewise, if you go to McDonald's and order a Big Mac Extra Value Meal with sugar-free soda, your meal will have fewer calories than the exact same Big Max Extra Value Meal with soda-with-sugar. In fact, the difference in calories between the two orders will be exactly the difference in calories between the two sodas. Now, if some people see sugar-free soda as "license" to eat more calories than the number of calories they save by drinking sugar-free soda instead of soda-with-sugar, that's something interesting to know. But it's hard to swallow the notion that such behavior means diet soda causes obesity. Rather, it would tend to demonstrate that people aren't very good at estimating the number of calories in food.

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Since I do understand arithmetic, I will assume that "frees up" was a bad choice of words on my part. Yes, if someone substitutes a diet soda for a regular soda they will save 179 calories. But if someone does not like regular soda and would choose water if diet soda was not available, they are not saving those calories, they simply are not consuming those calories through that beverage choice.

I suppose it is a matter of perception. If I have a beer once a week, on that day I consider it adding 150 calories to my intake for that day. I do not think in terms of saving 150 calories the other six days. If someone else perceives it as saving 150 calories a day for the remaining six days, then they probably would eat those calories through another food or beverage choice.

I do not think diet soda directly leads to obesity. I also do not think that it directly leads to losing weight or maintaining a healthy lifestyle. It is a beverage choice -- nothing more, nothing less. I believe it causes some people to overestimate what it can do for them in terms of calorie conservation, but I don't think that is the fault of the soda.

[Chris Amirault]

I suppose it is a matter of perception. If I have a beer once a week, on that day I consider it adding 150 calories to my intake for that day. I do not think in terms of saving 150 calories the other six days. If someone else perceives it as saving 150 calories a day for the remaining six days, then they probably would eat those calories through another food or beverage choice.

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In our house, this sort of "math" is known as the Calvin Trillin theorem. Basically, Trillin would go to his wife, Alice, and describe his desires to go on, say, a four-week eating tour of Singapore. After some planning and costing it out, they would decide that they couldn't afford to spend that several thousands on a trip -- and thus had "saved" themselves that amount, which could now be freely spent elsewhere.

[therese]

In our house, this sort of "math" is known as the Calvin Trillin theorem. Basically, Trillin would go to his wife, Alice, and describe his desires to go on, say, a four-week eating tour of Singapore. After some planning and costing it out, they would decide that they couldn't afford to spend that several thousands on a trip -- and thus had "saved" themselves that amount, which could now be freely spent elsewhere.

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Heh heh. My husband and I are doing precisely that in a few weeks, staying in town for a vacation instead of going elsewhere, spending the money we save on dining out every night here in town. We won't be consuming diet soda, that's for sure.

[Fat Guy]

If I switched from sugar-free soda to regular soda, I would double my weight in six months. I would have to start going by Fat Fat Guy. If I kept it up, I would eventually expand to the size of the known universe.

[anzu]

so....does drinking lots of diet soda make one diabetic? Does diet soda lead to diabetes? Are people more prone to diabetes more likely to consume diet soda?

To each question in turn (I should point out here that I have diabetes and so am not entirely ignorant on the subject):

No. No. and No.

And although there are a few people out there who would claim otherwise, just ignore them. There is an awful lot of bad science in the world, and it is best ignored.

You might (with genetic predisposition) be more prone to diabetes if you are overweight.

Put plainly, if there are already people in your family who have diabetes, you MIGHT be more likely to suffer from it yourself. It will not necessarily happen. If you are overweight, you MIGHT be more likely to suffer from diabetes. Again, it will not necessarily happen. If the two factors of family history and being overweight are combined, then it would probably be wise to try to engage in a more active lifestyle and lose some weight, so that the chances are lessened of your becoming diabetic. (And in this case, I would really recommend seeing a doctor first and having a proper talk about the whole issue.)

But drinking diet soda definitely has nothing to do with it.

[sockii]

I did weight watchers for over a year, and during that time one of the tips our leader gave us was if our weight loss was excruciatingly slow or had stopped, despite staying on program, to try cutting out artificial sweeteners.  She didn't know why, but for some people avoiding artifical sweeteners made their weight loss go faster, despite eating the same number of points (for those of you that aren't familiar with the program, counting points is basically a method of counting calories).  And for a lot of people on program while I was there, this worked.  It didn't make sense from a mathematical perspective, after all, things like diet soda have no points, so theoretically it shouldn't affect weight loss.  If it is really as simple as calories in minus calories out, this should not have had an effect.  For myself, I know I lost more weight during weeks I ate my points in "whole" foods as opposed to weeks where I ate fewer vegetables, despite eating the exact same number of points. 

Now, of course this is all anecdotal, and doesn't prove a thing.  But personal experiences like this, combined with interesting correlations (not causality) as illustrated by the study in the article, merit follow-up, not dismissal as automatically bunk science.

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I agree.

I gave up diet soda about 7-8 years ago--I was heavy, and a heavy drinker of Diet Coke/Pepsi (like at least 3-4 cans a day, oftentimes more than that). I had read some of the (still debated, often debunked, but I can't help believing them) studies decrying the horrible side effects of aspartame and just didn't want to take the risk any longer. One of those side effects noted even then was a supposed increased craving for carbohydrate-rich foods (bread, chips, etc) which could lead to increased obesity.

Now, it still took Weight Watchers for me to lose the weight a couple years later, but cutting out aspartame *did* decrease other ailments I had (such as frequent migraines), so I'm inclined to give some merit to the idea there may be some chemical link between diet soda--or artificial sweeteners in general--and weight gain.