Oil Based Pie Pastry

[bradyvickers]

I've been off my feet for the last couple of days because of an ankle sprain. But I was so bored today I just had to do something. I've wanted to experiment with an oil based pie crust recipe I found in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/155832254X/qid=1118983334/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2913809-1498462?v=glance&s=books&n=507846">Pie by Ken Haedrich.</a> So today I gave it a shot. The pastry came together really easy and at first rolled out ok. It was very crumbly though when moving it to the pie plate. I made a Shoofly pie in the crust after chilling it. The pie turned out fine, a little overdone though I think. Anyway the crust was pretty good. Very flaky, which was surprising considering the technique and ingredients. It wasn't tender, like a butter based dough, but it was nice and think and flaky. The kind of crust I like for Pecan Pie.

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Here's a pic of the pie.

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<img src="http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1118979283/gallery_33109_1382_18660.jpg" alt="Shoofly Pie, Oil Crust, Jun 16 2005">

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So I was just wondering if anyone else had experimented with this recipe, and or other oil based recipe's? I was thinking maybe a light olive oil, for a savory pie might work well?

[browniebaker]

Isn't that the oil-based pastry recipe that Ken Haedrich says is from an old lady who has won county-fair pie contests through the years? If I recall, it was simply mixing together 1/2 cup vegetable oil and 1/4 cup water before stirring in 2 cups all-purpose flour and maybe 1/4 teaspoon salt.

Reading that this ridculously simple recipe makes a pretty flaky crust, I had to try it. But being a fan of butter, I tried it with melted butter and milk instead, and it is indeed pretty flaky. For flakiness, the trick is, first, to mix the fat or water togther until you see small beads of fat and, second, to stir just until a ball of dough forms in the bowl -- avvoid over-mixing.

Now this is one of my favorite pie-crusts because it's very easy to make, is flaky, is relatively low in fat, does not need to sit in the fridge for any period of time before rolling out, handles beautifully at room temp, and holds its shape weel during baking even if I do not freeze for 30 minutes just before baking (as I do with my other pie-crusts).

This is the recipe I came up with:

1/2 cup unsalted butter, melted

1/4 cup milk

1/4 teaspoon salt

2 cups all-purpose flour (using dip-and-sweep method of measuring)

Mix butter, milk, and salt. Add flour. Stir just until dough forms. Take care not to overmix. Roll out at room temperature between two sheets of plastic wrap. Makes pastry for two 9-inch, single-crust pies.

I even used this crust for a chess pie I took to a potluck last. It was the first time I had used a stir-together crust recipe, and I was nervous. But someone even said, "You made this crust yourself?!"

Now, I realize that 1/2 cup melted butter contains slightly less fat than 1/2 cup vegetable oil, since butter can the as much as 20 percent liquid. So maybe you'll want to use 9 or 10 tablespoons butter and decrease the milk a bit, if you're exacting. I just like the ease of plunking a stick of butter in the bowl.

My next experiment (today, actually, as I have to make a coconut custard pie to satisfy a craving) is to add maybe 1/4 teaspoon baking powder to aerate the crust. I want to see whether this will tenderize it. (The recipe as is makes a very crisp crust. Another experiment for more tenderness could be using a pastry flour instead of all-purpose flour. Another day.) I'll report back on the results in a day or two.

[Wendy DeBord]

Vinegar will tenderize the crust.

This is very interesting. I'm thinking the powder in the crust won't do anything.........but I can't wait to find out if it did.

Welcome to The eGullet Society For Arts & Letters Bradyvickers.

One last note.........I have been working a little out of Ken Haedrichs book (pies)since past January and so far I've been very pleased. I'm thinking I need to buy his book on Apple Pies and work thru that next.

[chiantiglace]

oil based doughs are used all the time in savory especially for appetizers. Try a hot pepper oil and balsamic vinegar (to tenderize as wendy said, and sweeten) dough. You can wrap all kinds of things up, such as cheeses and meats + veggies.

[Patrick S]

oil based doughs are used all the time in savory especially for appetizers.  Try a hot pepper oil and balsamic vinegar (to tenderize as wendy said, and sweeten) dough.  You can wrap all kinds of things up, such as cheeses and meats + veggies.

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<Light bulb appears above head>

Fantastic idea!

[browniebaker]

This is the recipe I came up with:

1/2 cup unsalted butter, melted

1/4 cup milk

1/4 teaspoon salt

2 cups all-purpose flour (using dip-and-sweep method of measuring)

Mix butter, milk, and salt. Add flour. Stir just until dough forms. Take care not to overmix. Roll out at room temperature between two sheets of plastic wrap. Makes pastry for two 9-inch, single-crust pies.

My next experiment (today, actually, as I have to make a coconut custard pie to satisfy a craving) is to add maybe 1/4 teaspoon baking powder to aerate the crust. I want to see whether this will tenderize it. (The recipe as is makes a very crisp crust. Another experiment for more tenderness could be using a pastry flour instead of all-purpose flour. Another day.) I'll report back on the results in a day or two.

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Okay! Baked a pie this morning and am back to report happily that, yes, the addition of 1/4 teaspoon baking powder does make this crust more tender, yet still flaky. I got the idea for adding baking powder from Rose Levy Beranbaum's _Pie and Pastry Bible_ (which is my bible, actually). RLB adds baking powder to her cream-cheese crust, saying it makes the crust more tender by aerating it.

I just love the butter-and-milk version of oil pastry. Hard to believe, but it really is flaky, despite how easy it is to make. If you take care not to overmix, you will see, as you roll it out, a marbleized patterns of areas that have more flour mixed with milk contrasting with areas that have more flour mixed with butter. When you cut into the baked crust, it shatters into shards, as a flaky crust should.

[bradyvickers]

Good idea using the melted butter. I'll have to give that a try. I was also thinking it could maybe use a little sugar which would also help to tenderize the dough. Replacing the vegetable oil with butter is a good step towards better flavor.

[chiantiglace]

if you add butter and sugar its going to be pate brisee with milk. nothing special. and if you melt it the dough will be tougher with less(if none) rise than cold cut in. plus it will have little to no flake and be a sloppy version closer resembling sucree.

[browniebaker]

if you add butter and sugar its going to be pate brisee with milk. nothing special.  and if you melt it the dough will be tougher with less(if none) rise than cold cut in. plus it will have little to no flake and be a sloppy version closer resembling sucree.

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Adding a little sugar to oil pastry will give you neither pate brisee or pate sucree.

The mixing technique for oil pastry is different from that for pate brisee, and the respective textures are quite different. For the oil pastry, barely stirring until the mixture just forms a dough creates flakiness by mixing the fat and liquid evenly throughout the dough and, in addition, prevents toughness. Pate brisee is quite different in texture not only because it typically has a much higher ratio of fat to flour than does the oil pastry but also because the fat is thoroughly and even mixed throughout the dough.

[chiantiglace]

I geuss the word butter in the reference is negligible to what i said. if your using butter than were not talking about oil pastry anymore even though they are all fats.

All im stating is be careful what you change up because you will can leave your base very quickly into to something completely different.

[jackal10]

I just made a quiche lorraine using the pastry. It is easy and good.

I needed a little more liquid, maybe an extra tablespoon.

Quite different from Pate Brisee - much less fat and different texture.

Reminds me a little of hot water crust.

[Sethro]

I have to dig up the recipe, but my alltime favorite pie dough is corn oil based (and yes, it is a Southern Grandma recipe).

EDIT: Found it...

2c AP flour

1 tsp salt

1/2c corn oil

1/4c water

Doesn't get much easier than that, although it is kind of a pain to roll, even comapared to a real brisee.

Edited June 19, 2005 by Sethro (log)

[dianalane]

Isn't that the oil-based pastry recipe that Ken Haedrich says is from an old lady who has won county-fair pie contests through the years? If I recall, it was simply mixing together 1/2 cup vegetable oil and 1/4 cup water before stirring in 2 cups all-purpose flour and maybe 1/4 teaspoon salt.

Reading that this ridculously simple recipe makes a pretty flaky crust, I had to try it. But being a fan of butter, I tried it with melted butter and milk instead, and it is indeed pretty flaky. For flakiness, the trick is, first, to mix the fat or water togther until you see small beads of fat and, second, to stir just until a ball of dough forms in the bowl -- avvoid over-mixing.

Now this is one of my favorite pie-crusts because it's very easy to make, is flaky, is relatively low in fat, does not need to sit in the fridge for any period of time before rolling out, handles beautifully at room temp, and holds its shape weel during baking even if I do not freeze for 30 minutes just before baking (as I do with my other pie-crusts).

This is the recipe I came up with:

1/2 cup unsalted butter, melted

1/4 cup milk

1/4 teaspoon salt

2 cups all-purpose flour (using dip-and-sweep method of measuring)

Mix butter, milk, and salt. Add flour. Stir just until dough forms. Take care not to overmix. Roll out at room temperature between two sheets of plastic wrap. Makes pastry for two 9-inch, single-crust pies.

I even used this crust for a chess pie I took to a potluck last. It was the first time I had used a stir-together crust recipe, and I was nervous. But someone even said, "You made this crust yourself?!"

Now, I realize that 1/2 cup melted butter contains slightly less fat than 1/2 cup vegetable oil, since butter can the as much as 20 percent liquid. So maybe you'll want to use 9 or 10 tablespoons butter and decrease the milk a bit, if you're exacting. I just like the ease of plunking a stick of butter in the bowl.

My next experiment (today, actually, as I have to make a coconut custard pie to satisfy a craving) is to add maybe 1/4 teaspoon baking powder to aerate the crust. I want to see whether this will tenderize it. (The recipe as is makes a very crisp crust. Another experiment for more tenderness could be using a pastry flour instead of all-purpose flour. Another day.) I'll report back on the results in a day or two.

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I made a rainier cherry pie using the melted butter crust yesterday. I used 10 tbles melted Challenge Eupropean style butter and 3 tbles milk. The flavor was wonderful but after transfering to pie plate, pieces of crust kept breaking off. I patched the crust together so not a beautiful pie but a delicious one. And the crust was flaky.

I am a fan of butter too so thanks for the butter version.

[browniebaker]

I made a rainier cherry pie using the melted butter crust yesterday. I used 10 tbles melted  Challenge Eupropean style butter and  3 tbles milk. The flavor was wonderful but after transfering to pie plate, pieces of crust kept breaking off. I patched the crust together so not a beautiful pie but a delicious one. And the crust was flaky. 

I am a fan of butter too so thanks for the butter version.

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Diana, were you working with the dough at room temperature? I think it's one of the beauties of this melted-butter pastry: it does not require chilling and handles marvelously well at room temp, even in the summer months, when my kitchen is 78 to 80 degrees F. Once, I tried rolling it out a little chilled, and it was too crumbly.

This crust also holds its shape well during baking, without the 30 minutes in the freezer that I give other crust-pastries just before baking. With this dough, the crimp I give the crust is in the same shape when the pie comes out of the oven.

Having tried this crust for the first time just recently, I'm well and truly loving it by now. When pie-crust is this easy, it's so easy just to whip up a pie any time. Life can't get better than this.

[dianalane]

I made a rainier cherry pie using the melted butter crust yesterday. I used 10 tbles melted  Challenge Eupropean style butter and  3 tbles milk. The flavor was wonderful but after transfering to pie plate, pieces of crust kept breaking off. I patched the crust together so not a beautiful pie but a delicious one. And the crust was flaky. 

I am a fan of butter too so thanks for the butter version.

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Diana, were you working with the dough at room temperature? I think it's one of the beauties of this melted-butter pastry: it does not require chilling and handles marvelously well at room temp, even in the summer months, when my kitchen is 78 to 80 degrees F. Once, I tried rolling it out a little chilled, and it was too crumbly.

This crust also holds its shape well during baking, without the 30 minutes in the freezer that I give other crust-pastries just before baking. With this dough, the crimp I give the crust is in the same shape when the pie comes out of the oven.

Having tried this crust for the first time just recently, I'm well and truly loving it by now. When pie-crust is this easy, it's so easy just to whip up a pie any time. Life can't get better than this.

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Yes, I was rolling out the pie crust at room temperature right after mixing. Pehaps the tablespoon of milk I left out because I was using melted butter should have been included. The weather is getting hot and my flour is probably drier.

Browniebaker, I did notice that this crust didn't shrink while baking like my other crust sometimes does!

I will work with this crust again soon because I am in a pie making mood.

[browniebaker]

For the Fourth of July I baked a coconut buttermilk pie using the melted-butter pastry for which I posted the recipe earlier in this thread (and to which recipe I recently made the modification of adding 1/8 teaspoon baking powder per cup of flour to increase tenderness, as described in a subsequent post).

Just barely, I controlled my urges long enough to take a picture before slicing into the warm pie's quivering, custardy goodness. I do love this crust: it slices neatly with a knife yet breaks into small flakes when you fork into it.

[Ling]

Wow, how do you get your pie crust crimp to look so neat? Mine always looks..err...rather rustic. That's a beautiful pie.

[browniebaker]

Wow, how do you get your pie crust crimp to look so neat? Mine always looks..err...rather rustic. That's a beautiful pie. 

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Aawww, thanks! This crust handles so easily at room temp and stays where you put it, I'm afraid I might never make pie crust the "proper" way again.

[Shalmanese]

I made this crust today and I was struck by how soft it was. I didn't even want to think about rolling it as it was since I was afraid it would just amount to a pile of goo so I added in another 1/2 cup of flour and it was still very soft.

Certainly not like the rock solid pate brisees I've seen elsewhere. Is it meant to be this soft or have I done something drastically wrong?

[browniebaker]

I made this crust today and I was struck by how soft it was. I didn't even want to think about rolling it as it was since I was afraid it would just amount to a pile of goo so I added in another 1/2 cup of flour and it was still very soft.

Certainly not like the rock solid pate brisees I've seen elsewhere. Is it meant to be this soft or have I done something drastically wrong?

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By "this crust" do you mean the oil-based pastry about which Bradyvickers initially posted, or the melted-butter variation I've been talking about?

If you are talking about the melted-butter pastry, I can't figure out what could have gone wrong with your batch. I've made it maybe ten times now and never had a problem with too-softness; if anything, it's rather firm, such that I have to make sure to work with it at room temp. I would describe it as distinctly firmer than commerical Play-Doh at room temp.

Are you sure you're using one stick butter and 1/4 cup milk to two cups flour, not just one cup? And it's all-purpose flour, not something softer like pastry or cake flour? Assuming your room temp is really room temp and not something crazy like 95 degrees F (!), I can't think of any other variables.

[chefcyn]

I made this crust today and I was struck by how soft it was. I didn't even want to think about rolling it as it was since I was afraid it would just amount to a pile of goo so I added in another 1/2 cup of flour and it was still very soft.

Certainly not like the rock solid pate brisees I've seen elsewhere. Is it meant to be this soft or have I done something drastically wrong?

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I find that if you roll out really soft doughs in between big sheets of plastic wrap, it makes is a little easier to handle, you have to lift up the plastic now and then to allow it to move without folding up in the wrap, but then when you're ready to put it in the pan, just take off the top sheet anf flip it gently over the pan, then peel off the plastic and adjust it.

[chefcyn]

I like the oil crust better for pies that have a liquid filling that have to be baked. Like quiches, custards, pumpkin pie, pecan, etc.--it's excellent!

For fruit pies and more dry fillings, or for blind baking I still prefer the pate brisee.