Non-Vintage Margaux

[Really Nice!]

I've been seeing Non-Vintage Margaux on WineBid.com for awhile now. I'm not familar with their making a non-vintage wine, but I know what it is so, please, no explanation is necessary.

Is anyone familar with their doing an NV? I've read my latest Robert Parker/Jancis Robinson/Oz Clark/Hugh Johnson books and none of them mention such a wine from Margaux.

Anyone know about this who can provide more information?

[Daniel Rogov]

To the best of my knowledge Chateau Margaux does not produce a non-vintage wine. Taking as good a look as possible at the labels in the illustration on the link you provide, these are not the labels of Chateau Margaux. My guess (and only a guess) is that this is a wine from one of the minor chateaux in the Margaux appelation and at that probably one that sells in France primarily as a supermarket wine.

Perhaps someone else can add to this and even perhaps correct me...

[fifithewinecat]

Hey Daniel--

I checked this label out, comparing it to a 1982 Chateau Margaux on Winebid.com, and using a magnifying glass on the screen image. The NV ones do say "Chateau Margaux grand vin" The chateau picture does seem to be Chateau Margaux. However, I can't read the writing under the picture of the chateau, where the date normally is printed.

I would suggest somebody give the folks at Winebid.com a call. I'll bet somebody there has checked it out--at least to make sure they are not listing "bogus" goods.

Be real interested in what they have to say.

[Really Nice!]

Does the label have: mis en bouteille au château? This means it was bottled at the château.

As I typed that sentence I decided to go directly to the source and e-mailed the château.

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Bonjour,

The American Internet wine auction house, Winebid.com, is offering 10 bottles of non-vintage Margaux for auction. (http://www.winebid.com/buy_wine/search_results.aspx?SearchString=N.V.%20Margaux)

What can you tell me about these wines. Are they affiliated with your château at all?

Merci

Michael

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Will post if I get a response.

[fifithewinecat]

Okay Really Nice--

Found this on a Google search for "non vintage chateau margaux". It is on Winejournal.com on Chateau Margaux.

" ...do ignore the non-vintage Chateau Margaux made by blending the execrable 1963, 1964 and 1965 vintages.) Of course they were not the only culprit during this period when poor wines were endemic, but Margaux was the most prominent and had further to fall."

I think this is what Winebid.com is trying to sell. AND, it is a real Chateau Margaux offering!!!!

[PassionateChefsDie]

Okay Really Nice--

Found this on a Google search for "non vintage chateau margaux".  It is on Winejournal.com on Chateau Margaux.

" ...do ignore the non-vintage Chateau Margaux made by blending the execrable 1963, 1964 and 1965 vintages.) Of course they were not the only culprit during this period when poor wines were endemic, but Margaux was the most prominent and had further to fall."

I think this is what Winebid.com is trying to sell.  AND, it is a real Chateau Margaux offering!!!!

←

That makes sense I just been comparing pics and came to the conclusion the label was very similar to the 1970's vintage, was going to mention it but you've seen to of unraveled the mystery!

[JohnL]

From Clive Coates 'Grand Vins""

"The other was an experimental njon-vintage, foirst produced as a blend of 1963, 1nd 1964. and later presumably using some of the 1965, a vintage which never appeared under the chateau label.

.........I must confess I am not enthusiastic. It must have been my misfortune to have aged bottles. Anyway the experiment did not last."

I don't know when Coates tasted the wine but he notes it was not good;/over the hill.

The book was published several years ago. At best this wine offering has some value as a novelty (albeit a rather expensive one!).

For show rather than drinking.

It is clear that Coates believes this was a "gimmick" devised by Bernard Ginestet who was the owner of Margaux long ago.

[budrichard]

In the 1970's I purchased a case of Bahans Haut-Brion Magnums NV. They turned out quite well and were an excellent purchase. The big houses may have at one time made a NV to get rid of lessor wines from lessor vintages. I know that Bahans vintage is still made but have not seen any other NV. -Dick

[fifithewinecat]

Ho Boy!!! Winebid.com has these wines offered again, but now the price asked is $10 a botttle less. I think when it gets down to $10 per bottle, I might get one.

[Really Nice!]

It is normal for Winbid to suggest to the buyer to drop the price when the wines aren't selling within the first two bids. Personally, I look for First Growths whose descriptions contain something about a stained and/or scuffed label as that usually means it won't sell the first time around and I'll get $20 off the initial bid. If someone else outbids me, I move on... It's a strategy that nets me about 15 First Growth bottles a year.

[Really Nice!]

Got a response from the Château.

It turns out that in the mid and late sixties, some portions of Château Margaux vintages were blended with barrels from the previous owners because the new owners did not want those barrels labeled as a first wine.

[fifithewinecat]

I see now on Winebid.com, an offering for N.V. Cos d'Estournel. Wonder is this is the same sort of dreck that the NV Margaux seems to be.

Also, I wonder how many upper tier Bordeaux wineries put out shoddy NV products, rather than just dump the wine or job if off to some bottler.

I see nothing about this NV issue in RMParker's Bordeaux book, and find nothing in other Bordeaux books. Do any of you Bordeaux experts know who has done this in the past?

[Really Nice!]

I see now on Winebid.com, an offering for N.V. Cos d'Estournel.  Wonder is this is the same sort of dreck that the NV Margaux seems to be.

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I wouldn't call these drecks. First and second growths have a 'bar' higher than most of the others in the world. These appear to be from the '60s and '70s and in those years the 'bar' was usually lower; but there was still a 'bar'. I'd consider these wines over many others from other parts of the world during their off years.

However, the key in both of these particular wines is: "Signs of past seepage." This is completely independent of the quality of the juice that went into the bottle. I wouldn't touch an '82 Lafite that had signs of past seepage.