Taking Notes in Restaurants

[robert brown]

I am impressed with the detailed tasting notes some of the members take in restaurants. (Either notes or they have a photographic memory). I do it from time to time, but I find it diminishes my enjoyment of the meal and makes me anti-social with my dining mates. It should be useful for many of us to know how other people make notes and the consequences of doing it. Taking photographs of the room and the food is something I have tried as well. Photographing seems to depend mostly on the design and ambiance of the room and if you can forget about what people around you may think. I haven't tried a mini-disc recorder with a microphone now that such a player-recorder can fit in a shirt pocket. Please share your thoughts.

[Wilfrid]

I think taking notes when you are dining with other people is intrusive in much the same way as chatting on a cell phone (or indeed opening a book to read).

Having worked as a journalist, although sadly not in the food/dining field, I have always found taking notes to be distracting and intrusive in all kinds of circumstances.  Sometimes you have to, of course.  My memory is lousy, but I found the best substitute for taking contemporaenous notes was to sit down as soon after the experience as possible and scribble as much as you can remember down on paper.  Obvious, I suppose.

I decided several years ago that unless I took some kind of notes, all the good dining experiences I was having would quickly fade into a pleasant, vague blur.  So, I adopted the practice of writing down all I could remember as soon as I got home.  I could always tidy the notes up later.  I now have notes of most restaurant meals (and notable home meals) for the last five years.  My new problem is that they are in unindexed journals, so finding them is starting to be a pain.  (Oh yes, I should have put them on a computer in the first place; thanks).

Incidentally, although I have eaten alone frequently over those years, one of the main reasons I don't take notes at the table even in those circumstances, is that I quite obviously get mistaken for a restaurant critic often enough as it is.  It's the only explanation for some of the special treatment I've received even on first-time visits to restaurants.  Makes no sense to me, as I have the impression restaurant critics are often accompanied by someone, thus allowing more dishes to be tasted.  On the other hand, if you want to be taken for a restaurant critic, get scribbling.

[robert brown]

Wilfrid, do you know of this guy Harry Layne who teaches you how to improve your memory? A good test of his effectiveness would be to go to El Bulli with its 18-course or so tasting menu and then make your notes after you have finished your meal.

I know what you mean, and it is a good solution in conventional circumstances. I am curious to hear from a few others who describe in detail the looks of a dish. That seems hard to do aposteriori.

[Fat Guy]

Taking a copy of the menu with you and immediately taking notes right on it is one useful mechanism, and a digital camera with the flash turned off is another. In terms of your own memory, focusing specifically on what you want to remember is a big help. Say to yourself, "I want to remember that there were peas with the chicken." It helps, silly as it sounds, because it isolates a few bits of information from among the millions your senses are otherwise taking in. For marathon meals where I must remember everything, I may take a few notes in the bathroom at intervals.

[John Whiting]

I've never been bothered by making notes in a small diary, and no one I've been with has ever been bothered either. As I've already mentioned, I like to be in a restaurant when it opens, so photographing an empty room is no problem either.

As for being taken for a critic, so many people now make notes and take photos that it's scarcely noticed. And it doesn't matter to me whether I'm taken for a critic or not; nor does it give them the opportunity to improve bad food.

To compare taking notes with using a cellphone -- the distraction is comparable only if you're shouting into a recorder.

[Fat Guy]

Agreed. I'd also add that, if you're not a journalist on assignment, you should only take notes or play memory games to the extent they don't diminish your own enjoyment of the meal. Having a fun meal is far more important than writing a good eGullet post.

[Rosie]

I put a tape recorder under my napkin. The down side is that you can't always understand the tape because of the noise!

[robert brown]

Steven, I agree that having a fun meal is more important than writing a good eGullet post (or having a good meal and writing a fun eGullet post). However, there is a matter of pride in that we at least want to give an accurate and substantive portrayal. I am interested to know to what extent you use a digital camera and, if one were to use one, do the site administrators encourage posting photographs? If so, how do we post them? Do you even want a lot more photos than what people are posting these days?

[tommy]

I put a tape recorder under my napkin. The down side is that you can't always understand the tape because of the noise!

rosie, what is going on in your napkin that is so loud?

[Fat Guy]

Robert, I use my digital camera -- actually I have two of them -- all the time. When I was writing weekly reviews, I would use it at every single meal. Nobody ever really cared, and I found that the bigger a deal I made out of taking photographs the less suspicious people became. They just categorize you mentally as a tourist and they forget about you. My Kodak DC4800 has pretty good light-gathering abilities and takes usable photos with the flash deactivated even in relatively dark restaurants. If I'm taking a shot that I plan to put online, though, I will fire up the flash if I see other people in the restaurant taking flash photographs. If not, or if I think it will be intrusive, I call the restaurant and send Ellen back at another time to take a photo of a specific dish.

In a couple of cases, the camera was a useful tool in preserving my reputation. On at least two occasions -- it might have been three -- chefs wrote nasty letters to my editors saying I had mis-characterized a dish. This is standard nit-picky chef procedure when seeking to undermine a reviewer's credibility: If this guy doesn't even know the difference between leeks and salsify, his entire review is invalid. The photographic evidence caused more than one chef to do a double-take. See, not every dish goes out of the kitchen the way the chef wants it to.

When you're writing journalistic reviews, there's also a fact checking process. Typically, somebody calls the restaurant and confirms that the dish descriptions are accurate, the names are spelled correctly, and the hours of operation and such are up-to-date. Of course, sometimes restaurants give you misinformation. So ultimately, if there's a disconnect, you have to believe in yourself.

In terms of posting photographs, we very much encourage it, if the photographs are your own. The way you do it is to register with a free online photo storage service like imagestation.com and then you just take the URL of a photograph and use the Ikoncode image tag to have the photo display here.

What we don't encourage is posting copyrighted photos that are found on the Web.

[John Whiting]

"I put a tape recorder under my napkin. The down side is that you can't always understand the tape because of the noise! "

I once hid a miniDisk recorder in my mashed potatoes and ended up eating my words!  :D

[Jinmyo]

I think that the posting of photographs members have taken is an excellent idea.

cabrales? I know you have that teeny camera in your little handbag...

[cabrales]

Steven, I agree that having a fun meal is more important than writing a good eGullet post (or having a good meal and writing a fun eGullet post). However, there is a matter of pride in that we at least want to give an accurate and substantive portrayal.

Wholly apart from posting on eGullet, I take notes extensively because I'd like to be able to remember as much of my meal as possible several months or several years, or longer, from now.  For me, notetaking can disrupt the flow of a meal slightly, but I consider the benefits with respect to recollection sufficient to outweight any negative effects.

With respect to posting, it's important to me that my posts are as accurate as practicable. And I agree with Robert that it's a bit a matter of pride. It's also concern about other members' detrimental reliance on any information I may provide.

As mentioned elsewhere on the board, when I am dining in France (unless any dining companions might object), I not only take extensive notes at the table, I photograph (without flash of course) dishes and decor (both exterior and interior, including photographs that might be displayed on walls, e.g., at Bocuse and Georges Blanc). Outside of France, I make judgments re: photography on a case-by-case basis. I photograph less frequently in the US ;) , and do not photograph temperature-sensitive or other dishes that are best taken in immediately (e.g., souffles, sorbet).

Jinmyo -- Note my camera is not a digital camera, which I expect to purchase as soon as I have time to investigate the alternative models. However, my Canon Elph 2 (with 400-speed film) has worked decently at many restaurants. As Steven has indicated, a digital camera is much more effective for no-flash photography in restaurants. Note another problem is my generally low level of computer skills (except for typing), including scanning.  ???

[Jinmyo]

cabrales, note I do look forward to any photographs you might post. Which is all I can do until you do.  ;)

[robert brown]

Steven and Cabrales have emboldened me (and all of us?) to fire away. I hope we start seeing more postings of pictures of dishes.

[cabrales]

I haven't tried a mini-disc recorder with a microphone now that such a player-recorder can fit in a shirt pocket. Please share your thoughts.

Robert -- The thought of a tape recorder has crossed my mind in the past. However, I decided not to proceed with that possibility because:

-- When one is dining with others, the companions would be uncomfortable having conversations taped and it could be burdensome to have to keep on switching on and off the recorder as dishes were available to be described (I wonder if voice activitated models are now available).

-- When dining alone, speaking into the recorder would not be feasible.

-- If discovered, a tape recorder might seem somehow more "shady" to restaurants than photographs or notes taken from time to time (even with discretion).  ;)

Do any members utilize tape recorders at restaurants?

[macrosan]

This thread has suddenly brought back a memory of a meal I had in New York in 1989  ??? I dined alone at an Italian restaurant on the East Side in the 60s (can't remember the name). I hadn't booked, and they seated me at a table for 2 in the far corner. What I do recall clearly is the excellence of the meal, and the fantastic service I got throughout the meal. I was approached several times by the maitre d' who asked if all was well, was I enjoying the meal, was the wine exactly right, and so on. I was served by at least three different waiters, they checked whether I was ready for the next course before they served it, they replenished bread and water unbidden. In short, I had a memorable meal, and the service was unusually excellent in my experience of the generally poor service given to single diners.

And 13 years later, I've just realized why

I spent the whole evening writing in a notepad. I was actually writing a speech that I made at my brother's birthday party, but they probably thought I was a professional restaurant critic  :p

[Jim Dixon]

I almost always takes notes at the table when I'm reviewing a restaurant. I've learned that I can't always trust my memory, and I also find I can actually write phrases that I can use directly in the review.

I use 3X5 cards, and I try to be discreet but don't really worry if the server sees me writing...altho' I have pretended to be asking my wife questions as if I'm interviewing her if the server comes up while I'm writing.

While we were in Italy last fall I tried using a Palm Pilot. I had loaded it up with info I wanted to take along, and had wanted something like it ever since the first Newton came out...the idea of transferring my notes directly to the computer instead of typing them was always attractive.

Because I was new at it, it took a bit longer to enter notes, and they tended to be shorter, but I liked having them all in one spot (instead of on a handful of cards). Handhelds are more common now, and I think you look less like a reviewer when you're tapping the screen with the stylus (but maybe more like an obnoxious techno-weenie). But I haven't kept it up since we got back, and for my most recent review it was back to the 3X5 cards.

One thing that stays constant no matter how I take  notes...it is a distraction. I never take notes if I'm just eating. I want to be able to enjoy the entire experience, and a big part of that is being to able to talk with my dining companions, even if all they want to talk about is restaurant reviewing.

Jim

[cabrales]

On a related issue for restaurant write-ups, if more than one diner in a party would otherwise choose the same a la carte dish, would members seek to have as many different dishes as possible represented and dissuade that diner from adhering to his/her original choice?  

If such dissuasion is successful, how generous is the diner who secures the sought-after dish in sharing it with the "dissauded" diner?  Also, do diners within a reviewing party seek to order from different categories of menu items (e.g., meat, fish, shellfish) when practicable?   ;)  To what extent is this affected by the wines desired?  ;)

[jordan]

Taking notes at the table can make your servers feel nervous and hinder the level of service.  Not to mention if you are dining with guests it is rude.  I suggest taking a copy of the menu and write your notes when you get home.

[chopjwu12]

I want to post this question out to everyone. Im not the sharpest tool in the shed so thats the basis of this thread. When i go out to eat at fine dining restaurants i want to remember everything. The problem with me is i dont have a great memory. Combine that with alot of wine and by the next morning alot of the evening is a blur. So i was thinking would it be rude to carry a small notbad and a pen to write things down on? I can see how it would be a little rude but i can also see how it wouldnt be either. What are your opinions on the matter?

[Jinmyo]

David, there have been several discussions about this. cabrales not only takes notes but will sometimes also take photographs.

[chopjwu12]

really i had raed something like that on a recent post of his but wasn't sure if a was reading it right.

[Fat Guy]

David, I think it's fine to bring a notepad. Another good memory aid is to ask for a menu. Even take a few digital photos. Why not?

[jordyn]

My favorite tool lately is a digital voice recorder. New ones of these are very small, so they can be used quite unobtrusively, and I can talk a lot faster than I can write, so when I'm dining with other people, they don't get as annoyed that I'm paying so little attention to them. The only problem is that you have to eventually transcribe your notes, which means in the long run this is definitely not a time saver...

I've recently seen very small digital cameras that include voice recording functionality as well, which might be an even more useful tool.