Growing herbs in an NYC apartment

[scottpollack]

Since I'm usually cooking for just myself, I'd like to grow some herbs in my apartment rather than constantly buy large bundles from Fairway (which inevitably spoil before I can use them). Does anyone have any suggestions on which herbs grow best outside of spacious gardens? Should I start from scratch with gardening supplies from Home Depot or are the pre-grown Greenmarket plants a better starter? Any suggestions for techniques to keep the plants in best condition for cooking? Any help for this novice greenthumb and foodie-in-training is much appreciated!

Thanks,

Scott

[Bond Girl]

I've got everything from lemon verbena, rosemary and terragon to three different varieties of thyme, two marjorams and two oreganos on my window sill. Some die off in the winter like my lemon verbena, but rosemary stuck around and so did the oregano. Can't get lavender to bloom though and no luck with basil...but it could just be too much direct sun. My suggestion is get one or two from the greenmarket and ask what will survive the best, than keep your fingers crossed. Also, don't forget the insecticidal soap because white flies and mealie bugs are a pain.

[redglass]

I attempted to grow herbs from seeds last year and it was a dismal disappointment- mostly due to my non-green thumb status. So, I actually did some research this time around and can pass a few tips on:

--most herbs will grow very well in pots; however, most need full sun. If you have a sunny window sill, you can grow herbs. www.burpee.com, a seed company, gives descriptions of what herbs grow best under certain conditions.

--After herb-growing disaster last year, I broke down and bought plants from a nursery. I got over the guilt that they were "ready made" pretty quickly. I bought basil, rosemary and parsely. I wish I could have a complete fresh herb garden, but alas, limited sunshine and room constaints prevent that from happening.

--The herbs you grow in your house will probably be in better condition than those you buy at the store b/c they've been lovingly cared for by you and only have to travel as from their pot to your plate. Just follow the growing instructions and you'll be fine. (With cilantro, my mom always picked the flowers off so it wouldn't go to seed. Although I admit I have no idea why that's bad. )

[alacarte]

I've had success growing dill, basil, cilantro, and parsley on my windowsill (eastern exposure). I had bought the plants from the Greenmarket, but ultimately had to toss them out when aphids from one plant took over all four pots. Yeechhh.

I've also grown cilantro from seeds. It took a couple of weeks of watering and coddling to get the seeds to germinate, but no aphids!

Dill seems to be particularly hardy and grows...like a weed.

[alacarte]

Scott, I see this is only your second post on eG.

Welcome!!!

[bloviatrix]

I bought a spearmint plant at the greenmarket 2 years. Absolute disaster. The thing died almost immediately.

[helenjp]

I agree that there is no shame in buying plants rather than sowing seed - especially if your windowsill is too hot/dry or too dark, a growing plant with some muscle on it is more likely to survive the season.

Mint...plants such as mint which normally like damp conditions seem to do better when there are other plants around them, which presumably keep the air just a little moister.

That said, if I don't transplant my herbs pretty quick, they're all going to be dried herbs!

[carswell]

To some extent, your success is going to be determined by the growing conditions you can provide. The most important is light. A minimum of four-to-six hours of direct (as in beating down) sunlight is obligatory for good results and more is better. Also, the further you can move the pots outside in warm weather (into the space between your window and storm window; into window boxes; onto a fire escape, balcony, rooftop) the better. Filtered sunlight outdoors is usually far brighter than a bright window indoors. And indoors, brightness declines preciptiously with distance from the window (if you don't believe me, play around with a photometer).

That said, some herbs are more adaptable than others. Rosemary is the most forgiving. Chervil and corriander both seem to prefer a bright window to full sun outdoors. Thyme, marjoram, oregano, savoury, lemon verbena, bay and mint will struggle through the winter months and gain force as the days lengthen. My lavender plant goes into suspended animation until I put it out on the terrace in direct sun for about eight hours a day; by summer's end it's thriving and blooming. I've had success with basil, sage, tarragon, dill and chives only outdoors.

Another thing to note is that the flavour of windowsill herbs is just not as powerful as outdoor herbs, especially in the winter.

Starting out, especially this late in the season, I suggest you buy small starter plants available this time of year at most gardening centres and many farmers markets. I'm going to try growing anise from seed this year (so that I can use the leaves in a Friulian mussel dish) but that's only because I can't find a starter plant. And anyway, seed packets usually give you enough seeds for 20 or more plants, but you only want one, which pretty much eliminates the cost advantage of seeds. Beware the "potted" plants you find at green grocers; many are grown hydroponically and they simply won't take to transplanting.

I find most herbs do best in unglazed terra cotta pots. It's harder to overwater them and evaporation through the pots helps keep the roots cool. The downside is that you have to water them more frequently. A few moisture-loving herbs, like mint, I grow in plastic pots.

Don't fertilize herbs like you would flowering plants or vegetables; it encourages lush, flavourless growth. I fertilize with fish emulsion at half the recommended strength once a month during growing season. That's it. Also, water your herbs with water that's sat out overnight so that the chorine has evaporated.

[cakewalk]

I had a chive plant on my windowsill for about three years, but this year it isn't doing so well so I just bought another at the greenmarket. (I buy them all at the greenmarket.) I also have rosemary, which does great, and tarragon, which I thought had died last year and then it suddenly started growing again, even though I had stopped watering it. Go figure. I just bought thyme, dill (I've never grown dill, this is a first), sweet basil, and spearmint, which, even though it's a weed and is supposed to grow like one, always dies on me, but I keep trying. They are all perrenials except the basil, which sometimes grows well and sometimes doesn't, I've never figured out why since I always treat them the same (courteously). I have a northern exposure, which usually isn't so good for plants, but because I have absolutely huge enormous windows I get indirect light all day long. My plants seem to like it.

Edited April 20, 2005 by cakewalk (log)

[bloviatrix]

It's my understanding that basil needs a sunny, humid environment. I once read that the ideal environment is a sunny bathroom.

[scottpollack]

Scott, I see this is only your second post on eG.

Welcome!!!

←

Thanks! I've been lurking in the shadows as an anonymous reader for a while, but finally decided to join the party.

[scottpollack]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I'm definitely going to head down to the Greenmarket shortly to check out some of pre-planted options and talk with the growers.

Alternatively, has anyone tried growing herbs indoors hydroponically?

[Bond Girl]

I've tried it with Strawberries, but may be it's the fertilizers, the berries was small and tasteless.

[carswell]

Alternatively, has anyone tried growing herbs indoors hydroponically?

←

Usually not worth the trouble. For a quality setup, you're talking $150-200 for the basic hydroponic equipment for 4-6 plants. And most hydroponic gardens are grown under artificial lights, so add another $100 or so for grow lamps. And be prepared to tolerate an unearthly glow dominating whatever room you set it up in for 16-18 hours a day and the sound of a circulating pump chugging away around the clock. And don't forget the electricity bill. And pray it doesn't spring a leak. Also, you're forced to start the plants from seed and, in most setups, have to replace the root-holding medium each time around (with potted plants, you can recycle the earth). In other words, in apartment settings it's really worth the expense and bother only for "herbs" with a very high retail price.

Edited April 20, 2005 by carswell (log)

[scottpollack]

Wow, definitely sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Traditional dirt it is.

[Digijam]

It's my understanding that basil needs a sunny, humid environment.  I once read that the ideal environment is a sunny bathroom.

←

I usually find basil the easiest to keep alive of all. Even through the winter months. Lack of sunlight makes it a little paler and weaker-flavoured, but on the plus side it seems to be impossible to overwater. And unlike chives it doesn't hold any appeal for my cats...

[carswell]

I usually find basil the easiest to keep alive of all. Even through the winter months. Lack of sunlight makes it a little paler and weaker-flavoured, but on the plus side it seems to be impossible to overwater.

←

Yet in my apartment, which if anything has an excess of sun, it won't survive into January. (Tiny leafed Greek basil does better indoors but is a culinary wimp.) I think the lesson here is that there are few hard and fast rules and that all gardeners, indoor or out, have to learn by trial and error what works with the conditions and cultivars at their disposal.

[bronihk]

i just started a little window sill herb garden in my aparment (inside, but lots of light) and am wondering about 'harvesting'. i have (greek) oregano, thyme, rosemary and parsley. should i be careful of taking too much off at one time? should i trim from certain areas of the plant (top, outside branches, etc)? i really am a bit clueless when it comes to the whole live-plant thing. help!

[iheartoffal]

I once grew herbs in an NYC apartment, much to the dismay of the police.

Woops...wrong type of herbs. I thought this was the High Times forum...

[craftsmaster]

Since I'm usually cooking for just myself, I'd like to grow some herbs in my apartment rather than constantly buy large bundles from Fairway (which inevitably spoil before I can use them). Does anyone have any suggestions on which herbs grow best outside of spacious gardens? Should I start from scratch with gardening supplies from Home Depot or are the pre-grown Greenmarket plants a better starter? Any suggestions for techniques to keep the plants in best condition for cooking? Any help for this novice greenthumb and foodie-in-training is much appreciated!

Thanks,

Scott

There's really only one catch to growing herbs indoors, especially in the initial stages. These plants crave -- and need! -- ten to 12 hours of sunlight every day to thrive. And herbs prefer natural light to artificial, hands down.

Before you make your final decision on what herbs to grow, take a good look at the sunlight that comes through your kitchen windows. This ultimately dictates which herbs you can grow. Got a southern or a western exposure? This means you've got a sunny, hot climate.

If even your best windows don’t have much light, then consider investing in a grow light. This artificial lighting is relatively inexpensive and can be found at just about every nursery, discount store, and hardware store.

Cheers,

Carmel

[IndyRob]

I'm starting my second run of herbs in my AeroGarden (hydroponic system). You can get everything you need for as little as $50 and you can have them set up and running in about 30 minutes. I was generally pleased with my first run, but learned some important things....

My main problem was that the basil and dill shot up to goodly heights causing me to raise the lights. The more they were raised, the more the short plants (thyme, oregano, etc) got cheated of light. So I never got any good harvests of those. It might've been better had I cut the taller ones back earlier than the instructions implied.

So I think buying the small ones is better. You can have more than one unit running with herbs that will play well together. You can also have gardens staggered at different levels of development. But since I have a 6 pod one, I'm starting basil and peppers but will transplant them outside as soon as they get close to the light. Then I'll either start new ones, or replace them with something smaller.

I also recommend the Master Gardener kit. Although, you'll likely receive a season's worth of pods when you order, they might not be the exactly you want (custom kits can be purchased separately). I found I didn't have much use for dill (when it was at its height I should've taken the whole thing and did gravlax). The mint went pretty much unused as well. The MG kit gives you the hardware and nutrients to do your own pods with your own seeds.

You can also go with third party generic hydroponic grow medium and nutrients (save the plastic cages for reuse). But you are locked into the OEM grow bulbs.

Of course, the best thing is that it's a year-round deal. I got mine for Christmas and was harvesting herbs in February.

Other downsides mentioned before:

Lights: Yes, they're bright and are on for all but around 6 hours per day.

Noise: Noticeable if you're close. Worse if you develop a pump problem. I don't think this is common, but has been mentioned on message boards so it's not uncommon (often they are replaced gratis).

Electricity: I saw a thread where someone calculated the costs. They were minimal.

If you have a green thumb, I might not recommend them. But for people with brown thumbs like mine, it has been very good.

[mrsadm]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I'm definitely going to head down to the Greenmarket shortly to check out some of pre-planted options and talk with the growers.

Alternatively, has anyone tried growing herbs indoors hydroponically?

I have an aerogarden. The small versions are not too expensive; the lights for instance were only $14.95. Check it out. They offer an herb kit with which I've had good success.

[Deryn]

Resurrecting an old post because, though I think I told Kerry in a private conversation that the purchase of a freeze-drier would be my last 'large' gadget, I am not quite so sure I can hold myself to that promise now that I have found this (Canadian) product. http://www.urbancultivator.net/product-information/

 

Herbs are my very favorite thing to grow (and use freely), but, as winter approaches, I have been looking around this house for an 'ideal' place to situate a few shelves of potted herbs inside and found no perfect spot that isn't either filled with furniture or large radiators. Have also been considering re-investing (used to have one once upon a time) in another 3-tiered grow light stand http://www.leevalley.com/en/Garden/page.aspx?cat=2,44716&p=10549 - not cheap either and unsightly enough that it would have to go in the basement where it may languish unused or forgotten. And, having fresh micro-greens of any kind at my beck and call during long winters surely would be a healthy thing, wouldn't it? I have a small 'sprouter' bin but honestly have never used it. It was purchased for 'just in case emergencies' as I recall. Have I convinced myself yet that the more stylish solution is the ticket? Not sure ... but darn, it IS tempting.

 

oops .. just noticed this was originally a thread under NYC: cooking and baking. Not sure where I should have put this post but feel free to move or delete it (after reading about the 'cultivator' product I wanted to highlight, of course). Maybe it belongs under 'gadgets'? Didn't want to start a new topic so did a general search for a similar type of topic. Sorry.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[FauxPas]

What's the price on that Urban Cultivator? I couldn't find one. It looks like a pretty complete solution though! 

 

I saw this Smart Herb Garden recently. It's about $100 and will automatically water but looks like it will only provide extra light so I assume it needs to be positioned in a fairly bright spot. It looks like it will hold 3 plants, which isn't that many. But you can also get additional Smart Pots and germination lights, etc. Not sure it's a good solution, but it seemed to be similar in goal to the Cultivator. For someone who wants a fairly compact solution that isn't too ugly, it might be the right answer. 

[Deryn]

Seems to me that the small one (which is the one meant for residential use) is around the $2k mark Canadian. I don't think there is a difference for the built-in model vs the one on wheels with a cutting board top. Seems to me that somewhere I also saw they may ship free (within Canada at least). I was intrigued when I saw it originally - about a month ago I think and I am not sure how I came across it .. may have been on a tv show. I definitely still am intrigued but the freeze-drier jumped to the front of my list when Kerry introduced that 'toy'.

 

I like the Smart Herb Garden you mentioned too, FP .. but when I use herbs, I tend to use a lot more than just a leaf or two at a time I find. I looked a number of times at AeroGardens too a number of years ago and decided they were just too small/limited for me. This Cultivator is just a different beast entirely.

 

I do have a few questions about the Cultivator that I will address to the manufacturers if I get to the point of being ready to purchase one. The most important one: it takes a few weeks to produce a boatload of herbs but I worry that I may want say both Rosemary (an herb that likes drier conditions) and Basil (one which may need more water and different temps) at the same time - and would like to know the limitations on what herbs, etc. you can plant together.