Latest Philadelphia chain invasion

[MarketStEl]

...or don't, as you prefer.

As I was walking from City Hall to Hamburger Mary's this evening, I noticed a liquor license application in the window of the former Coach Store at Liberty Place.

The licensee? Ruby Tuesday's.

This chain is a TGI Friday's clone with a bigger salad bar and less emphasis on the alcohol bar. Something tells me they aren't going in the old Coach space--that's too small for this mall standby. So I guess I'll just have to wait for the Sunday newspaper coupon inserts to find out where in Liberty Place it's going.

In the meantime, the front windows were open wide at Mary's this evening. Should any of you care to, stop by Dragonfly, the gay bar upstairs at Mary's, say hi to Dennis the bartender, and tell him I sent you.

(Actually, while I'm at it, Hamburger Mary's the concept is a "chain" of sorts. But each individual location has a distinct local personality.)

[Andrew Fenton]

Hooray! More free tables at other restaurants for me, now.

[serpentine]

Ugh. One of my favorite things about Philly when I moved here seven years ago was the relative lack of chains and fast food, and the effect it had on many people's attitudes about food. (Hey, why go out of your way to get the nationally marketed egglike mcmuffin when you can go to the deli on your block and get the real thing for about the same price?)

We need better vocab to distinguish between types of "chains." There's a big difference between corporation-produced-drone-food and a restaurant with multiple locations.

[MarketStEl]

We need better vocab to distinguish between types of "chains." There's a big difference between corporation-produced-drone-food and a restaurant with multiple locations.

←

A very good point, and if you don't mind, I'd like to cite this over on the revived chain restaurant discussion in General Food Topics.

Nonetheless, you can find decent quality food at some national chains, and just because a multi-location restaurant is a local operation doesn't mean it's great.

For instance, you can actually get pretty good Italian cooking at Maggiano's Little Italy. And I doubt that anyone would cough up what Ruth's Chris Steak House or Morton's of Chicago charge in order to be served mediocre beef. (Putting a Philly spin on this observation: Those two steakhouses are still around. Morton's has been here nearly two decades. Kansas City Prime lasted how long?)

And on the other hand, how many times have you seen Lee's Hoagie House mentioned in the recurring discussions about where the best hoagies are to be found?

But I do appreciate what I believe is your larger point, one that others have also made: National chains, no matter how good their food or service, are the same wherever you go. Local establishments--even local chains--usually have distinct personalities. A Mexican meal eaten at the Mexican Post, Zocalo, El Vez or Tequila's is more interesting than one eaten at Chi-Chi's simply because behind that meal stands somebody who had an original idea about how that food should be prepared and presented and what sort of environment it should be served in, rather than someone who just bought someone else's idea off the shelf in order to make some money.

I still won't begrudge those who seek out the Olive Garden when they think Italian their preference, even though I do know that better exists and would be happy to point them to it. I'd rather see lots of people enjoying themselves while dining out on mediocre food than only a few of us enjoying superlative meals and everybody else watching TV at home.

(Edited to add: Yes, I know that Chi-Chi's shut down last fall. I just can't think of another national Mexican chain that is anywhere near comparable to the local Mexican restaurants I mentioned.)

Edited April 6, 2005 by MarketStEl (log)

[serpentine]

(Edited to add: Yes, I know that Chi-Chi's shut down last fall. I just can't think of another national Mexican chain that is anywhere near comparable to the local Mexican restaurants I mentioned.)

Chevy's or Baha Fresh would be less-gross examples? I put Chi-Chi's in the "truly bad not-really-Mexican" category.

After all, there are levels of quality to chains. There's the consistant, boring, reputable, and then there's the consistantly truly lousy lowest-common-denominator chains. Maggiano's is the former, Olive Garden the latter.

[MarketStEl]

(Edited to add: Yes, I know that Chi-Chi's shut down last fall. I just can't think of another national Mexican chain that is anywhere near comparable to the local Mexican restaurants I mentioned.)

Chevy's or Baha Fresh would be less-gross examples? I put Chi-Chi's in the "truly bad not-really-Mexican" category.

After all, there are levels of quality to chains. There's the consistant, boring, reputable, and then there's the consistantly truly lousy lowest-common-denominator chains. Maggiano's is the former, Olive Garden the latter.

←

Hadn't heard of either of those chains until now, as I've never lived in an area that had them.

Nor, for that matter, have I ever eaten in a Chi-Chi's. But they did advertise around here. Judging from your comments, it's probably just as well that I never ate there.

[Buckethead]

There is a third category of chain restaurant: corporate-produced food that is actually good. Of course, the only chain I can think of that fits this category is Don Pablo's. I would not go there over Tequila's or Lolita or half a dozen other good Mexican places, but put Don Pablo's up against just about any other chain restaurant and I'd go there.

There is the other good effect that bad chain restaurants have: they attract people who would otherwise be taking up a table at a place I actually want to go..

[deprofundis]

There is a third category of chain restaurant: corporate-produced food that is actually good. Of course, the only chain I can think of that fits this category is Don Pablo's. I would not go there over Tequila's or Lolita or half a dozen other good Mexican places, but put Don Pablo's up against just about any other chain restaurant and I'd go there.

There is the other good effect that bad chain restaurants have: they attract people who would otherwise be taking up a table at a place I actually want to go..

←

Oh yeah, I'm a fan of Don Pablos' grilled chicken fajitas. Chevy's is pretty much identical to DP's, but I give DP's the edge. I used to like Chi-Chi's years and years ago, but they must have went downhill or something, cause towards the end they were god awful. I guess that hepatitis scare was the nail in the coffin. ;-) Anybody like Carrabba's? They're also a pretty good chain imho, although they're food's pretty heavy/greasy.

[joiei]

There is a third category of chain restaurant: corporate-produced food that is actually good. Of course, the only chain I can think of that fits this category is Don Pablo's. I would not go there over Tequila's or Lolita or half a dozen other good Mexican places, but put Don Pablo's up against just about any other chain restaurant and I'd go there.

There is the other good effect that bad chain restaurants have: they attract people who would otherwise be taking up a table at a place I actually want to go..

←

Oh yeah, I'm a fan of Don Pablos' grilled chicken fajitas. Chevy's is pretty much identical to DP's, but I give DP's the edge. I used to like Chi-Chi's years and years ago, but they must have went downhill or something, cause towards the end they were god awful. I guess that hepatitis scare was the nail in the coffin. ;-) Anybody like Carrabba's? They're also a pretty good chain imho, although they're food's pretty heavy/greasy.

←

I tried Don Pablo's and was dissapointed. Way too many good non chain tex-mex's in this area to eat at a chain.

And the kitchen manager at our local Carraba's rocks. he can cook a perfect medium rare salmon fillet. So i go there for that only. Do not care of the rest of the menu.

[MarketStEl]

There is a third category of chain restaurant: corporate-produced food that is actually good. Of course, the only chain I can think of that fits this category is Don Pablo's.

←

I would put Maggiano's into this category as well. Again, it's not up to the level of Portofino or any of the better South Philly places, red-gravy and otherwise, but to give you a local-angle comparison, if someone said to me, "OK, we can go to Maggiano's or we can go to the Italian Bistro--your choice," I'd choose Maggiano's.

[jmbrightman]

Carrabba's is the best of the big chains I have tried. I had a good meal at the Longhorn Steakhouse in Exton a few weeks back. Flavorful ribeye cooked a perfect medium rare.

[sabg]

There is a third category of chain restaurant: corporate-produced food that is actually good. Of course, the only chain I can think of that fits this category is Don Pablo's. I would not go there over Tequila's or Lolita or half a dozen other good Mexican places, but put Don Pablo's up against just about any other chain restaurant and I'd go there.

There is the other good effect that bad chain restaurants have: they attract people who would otherwise be taking up a table at a place I actually want to go..

←

Oh yeah, I'm a fan of Don Pablos' grilled chicken fajitas. Chevy's is pretty much identical to DP's, but I give DP's the edge. I used to like Chi-Chi's years and years ago, but they must have went downhill or something, cause towards the end they were god awful. I guess that hepatitis scare was the nail in the coffin. ;-) Anybody like Carrabba's? They're also a pretty good chain imho, although they're food's pretty heavy/greasy.

←

i think carrabas has v good mussels and my husband always has the lamb shops and loves them

[NulloModo]

I've eaten at some point at just about every chain that has locations in the mid-atlantic. As far as chains go Ruby Tuesday's isn't awful, but it isn't wonderful. I sought it out for a while because they had a special low-carb menu section, but they have discontinued it, and Friday's is better anyway.

The one draw the place does have is that their salad bar is actually pretty decent. Good options, and at every RTs I have been to the veggies are actually fresh and changed out fairly often. There is also a nice selection of chopped and cured meats, cheeses, seeds, salad toppings, etc. I think they have an all you can eat salad bar thing for like $7, so, if you are in the mood for that sort of thing it's not such a bad deal. The burgers are also for the most part OK, but I have found a lot of them refuse to cook the burger rare or medium-rare. The entrees are mostly forgettable and overpriced for what you get.

[CherieV]

I heard a rumor that P.F. Changs or was it Ruby Foo's (same difference) is going to open in the Avenue B location on Broad. Also, a Melting Pot is coming downtown as well. I have to say these aren't bad chains as they go and will be tourist traps for theatre goer's I suspect. Just took at Times Square, all the wonderful restaurants in NY and the Olive Garden has a line around the block everyday. Go figure.

[chowfun]

I didnt know Melting Pot was a chain. I've never been there, however. I do like Rita's water ice and Panera's.

[KatieLoeb]

I heard a rumor that P.F. Changs or was it Ruby Foo's (same difference) is going to open in the Avenue B location on Broad.  Also, a Melting Pot is coming downtown as well.  I have to say these aren't bad chains as they go and will be tourist traps for theatre goer's I suspect.  Just took at Times Square, all the wonderful restaurants in NY and the Olive Garden has a line around the block everyday.  Go figure.

←

Not so. Those are really old rumors. New resident of the former Avenue B space will be Ted's Montana Grill, Ted Turner's steakhouse chain. Opening in the fall according to Michael Klein's Inqlings column of 3/6/05.

A good thing too. A bajillionaire with deep pockets like Ted Turner is the only person I could think of to afford the obscene rent in that location. Last I'd heard it's in the neighborhood of $40K/month!!!

[CherieV]

[Not so.  Those are really old rumors.  New resident of the former Avenue B space will be Ted's Montana Grill, Ted Turner's steakhouse chain.  Opening  in the fall according to Michael Klein's Inqlings column of 3/6/05.

A good thing too.  A bajillionaire with deep pockets like Ted Turner is the only person I could think of to afford the obscene rent in that location.  Last I'd heard it's in the neighborhood of $40K/month!!!

←

Oh good, another high end steak house chain West of Broad! Just what we need!! So now within 4 blocks we have: Capital Grill, Palm, Mortons, Prime Rib, Smith and Wolinsky and Ted's Montana Grill. Am I forgetting anyone? Delmonico coming anytime soon or Old Homestead???? I guess you can all tell that I'm not much of a steak house lover.

[mrbigjas]

you're forgetting barclay prime. it's kind of like a friend of mine joked when olive garden opened on chestnut street, 'FINALLY i can get some decent italian food in this town.'

[herbacidal]

I'd go to Melting Pot, because I've never had fondue.

Ted Turner isn't a bajillionaire anymore.

With the AOL stock price down, he's a lowly multimillionaire.

[Andrew Fenton]

Oh good, another high end steak house chain West of Broad!  Just what we need!! So now within 4 blocks we have: Capital Grill, Palm, Mortons, Prime Rib, Smith and Wolinsky and Ted's Montana Grill.  Am I forgetting anyone? Delmonico coming anytime soon or Old Homestead????  I guess you can all tell that I'm not much of a steak house lover.

←

I don't think that the Ted Turner chain is high-end. I mean, according to the menu, they serve pot roast and chili cheese fries in addition to steak. The gimmick, of course, is that they specialize in bison, not beef. But I agree, steakhouses aren't my thing either.

Ted Turner isn't a bajillionaire anymore.

With the AOL stock price down, he's a lowly multimillionaire.

←

True, true. Nonetheless, from the perspective of this thousandaire, it still looks pretty good.

Edited April 10, 2005 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[philadining]

I don't think that the Ted Turner chain is high-end.  I mean, according to the menu, they serve pot roast and chili cheese fries in addition to steak. 

I was amused by the menu's monday Blue Plate Special of "Chicken-Fried Chicken". Where are the french-fried french fries? I've seen this chicken thing on menus before, and I assume it's a slightly tongue-in-cheek reference to chicken-fried steak, which is a steak fried like one fries a chicken. But it seems to me that a chicken fried like one fries a chicken, could be safely referred-to as "fried chicken."

And I'll join the chorus saying that steakhouses are pretty far down on my list of destinations. But I like that the menu offers Coke in 8oz bottles, in my opinion the ideal way to drink a Coke.

Edited April 10, 2005 by philadining (log)

[serpentine]

The Melting Pot in Chestnut Hill is the site of my Worst Service Ever Story. [shudder]

The food, however, is simply forgettable and overpriced.

[Buckethead]

The  Melting Pot in Chestnut Hill is the site of my Worst Service Ever Story. [shudder]

Got a link? I actually have had really good service every time I've been. But then, I've never been to the Chestnut Hill location, only the Wilmington one.

The food, however, is simply forgettable and overpriced.

Though I've never been to the one in Chestnut Hill, I've heard that its prices are higher than the location in Wilmington, so how overpriced it is may depend on which one you go to. 'Forgettable' is too strong a word in my opinion. The entrees aren't fantastic, but the raw meats they use seem to be of good quality, and the relaxed pace of the meal (due to the fact that you cook it yourself at the table) is something I enjoy, but only once every six months or so. What I really go there for are the cheese fondues and the chocolate dessert fondues. The tray of fruits and goodies you get with the dessert fondue is usually excellent.

One thing I hate about the place is that they only have one beer on draft, usually the ubiquitous, forgettable Magic Hat #9. Boo.

[Mummer]

One thing I hate about the place is that they only have one beer on draft, usually the ubiquitous, forgettable Magic Hat #9. Boo.

←

Well, the one draft could have been Coor's Light.

[serpentine]

'Forgettable' is too strong a word in my opinion. The entrees aren't fantastic, but the raw meats they use seem to be of good quality, and the relaxed pace of the meal (due to the fact that you cook it yourself at the table) is something I enjoy, but only once every six months or so. What I really go there for are the cheese fondues and the chocolate dessert fondues. The tray of fruits and goodies you get with the dessert fondue is usually excellent.

I guess our expectations differ quite a bit. I've been to nicer, non-chain fondue place that was a lot of fun -- classy joint, great service, some unusual offerings. But really, I find the Melting Pot awfully ordinary for what it costs, especially since there is minimal effort required in the kitchen. The highlight of our bad service story was a waitress who brought us new sodas constantly, but refused to bus the old ones so that she wouldn't have to pause to explain what on earth was taking our food so long. They had seated us in the basement, and we could get no-one's attention while we starved among a sea of half-drank glasses. When we tried to make a complaint about the myriad of indignities suffered, the staff claimed that there was no-one there who was any kind of manager and that there was nothing that anyone could do about our disatisfaction.

We wound up buying a fondue pot and do it ourselves whenever the urge strikes, since it's really a pretty easy meal.