Lamb Curry: Cook-Off 4

[fifi]

I haven't gone looking for the lamb yet but, if I can't find something reasonable, I still intend to play in this game. I am thinking that chunks of chicken thigh meat might be a reasonable sustitute. I am intrigued by the cooking techniques for curries in general. Chufi sure gave us a good start.

My first step is to make some ghee. I don't have any books yet so, any tips out there on this fundamental step?

[Chris Amirault]

Hmmm! I guess we're on a strange kind of ghee wavelength, eh, Fifi??

[torakris]

On to the pork or beef question!

can I substitute pork or beef.....?

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I didn't forget you, Kristin!

Here's what Julie Sahni has to say in her great Classic Indian Cooking in her recipe for "Goanese Hot and Pungent Curry (Vendaloo)":

Vendaloo is the famous fiery-hot, mustard-laced dish from Goa, a state on the southwest coast of India. Traditionally, vendaloo is made with pork, but there are many variations prepared with beef, chicken, lamb, and even duck. Pork is rarely eaten in India, except by the Portuguese Christians in Goa. Even though some religious sects permit the eating of pork, it is not as highly prized a meat in India as lamb or chicken. Indians tend to regard the pig, who eats most anything from anywhere, with suspicion. Another reason for its lack of popularity is that the feed-corn needed to raise the best grade of pig for good pork is not grown in India on a wide enough scale to feed an animal population.

The recipe (for about 1 1/2 lbs of pork) creates a marinade with the Indian equivalent of the holy trinity (onion, garlic, ginger) as well as some pan-roasted and ground spices, cider vinegar, and oil and marinates the meat for 8 hrs at room temperture (!) or for 48 hours in the fridge (!!). Cooking is with some tamarind pulp, onions, and a few other things, including the left-over marinade.

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this sounds better than the beef one I was thinking doing. I have made the vindaloo from Madhur Jaffrey's book and really enjoyed it, but there is no marinating and no tamarind in her recipe....

[Chris Amirault]

I've started cooking the lamb curry, adapted from Julie Sahni's book. I'm doubling the recipe, so I've got:

4 lbs cubed lamb

the bones from the lamb

1 medium onion, sliced

1/4 c corn oil

1/2 c ghee

10 (yes, 10) onions, minced in the food processor

thick, 3 inch piece of ginger minced, about 4 T

eight garlic cloves, minced, about 3 T

1 T cayenne powder (we like it hot)

2 T ground, toasted cumin

3 T coriander seed, ground

1 T turmeric, ground

a few cinnamon sticks

about ten cardamom pods

two cans diced tomatoes

four diced potatoes (going in later)

Here are the spices:

Browning the lamb: Sahni points out, as do many other folks, that drying off the meat makes for better browning:

The browned lamb (I used the oil for this, not the precious ghee):

A quick stock instead of water, with the sliced onion and the lamb bones:

When I'm mincing ten onions, I'm glad that I wear contact lenses :

The minced ginger and garlic (and a cooking aid in the background):

So, when I first made a curry, it sucked, because I didn't have the patience and stamina to cook the minced onions properly. You have to brown them for real, not just kinda brown, and you have to stir the little bastids pretty much constantly (not like risotto constantly, or even roux constantly; I can cheat with those two, not here).

Thus, here are the stages of the onion browning, which took longer bc I had about eight cups of minced onion (!!). Note, also, that a flat-edged wooden "spoon" is better than a curved one, since you have to scrape, scrape, scrape that bottom, and having a larger edge is easier on the wrist (though, sad to say, not easy):

onions at start:

Onions at 10 minutes:

Onions at 20 minutes:

Onions at 30 minutes:

Onions at 35 minutes, when I added the ginger and garlic:

Onions, ginger, and garlic at 40 minutes (almost there):

Onions, ginger, and garlic at 45 minutes, just before I added the spices, sauteed them for 30 sec, then dumped in the stock, lamb, and tomato:

This is the curry simmering for 1 1/2 hrs; then, I'll add the four diced potatoes and cook it for another 30 minutes:

Sahni says that you should let it sit for 30-120 minutes after that, which should bring us about to the start of the Oscars!

[torakris]

I must insist that the next recipe we choose does not have a standing over a stove and stirring constantly for 40+ minutes.....

looks gorgeous Chris!

[Chris Amirault]

I must insist that the next recipe we choose does not have a standing over a stove and stirring constantly for 40+ minutes.....

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Yeah, I thought of that when I was stirring.... My only excuse is that this recipe is heavy on the minced onion -- and a massive amount of curry!

[Chufi]

That looks great Chris!

Yours is much yellower and therefore more curry-looking then mine - more turmeric I guess?

One question: did you grind the coriander and cumin yourself and if so, did you roast them before grinding?

[Chufi]

as for the word curry, I think it's interesting that as far as I know, the word is the same in most European languages.

Only the Dutch (ofcourse) had to go and 'translate' it into kerrie

Edited February 28, 2005 by Chufi (log)

[spaghetttti]

Chris, thank you for that marvelous photo tutorial, how much ghee did the pound of butter yield? I really can't tell, but could that be 1 - 1.5 cups?

[helenjp]

Torakris, which Madhur Jaffrey book do you plan to use? I'm going to use "A Taste of India" - "Lamb or Chicken with Green Coriander", a Kashimiri recipe with yogurt and fragrant rather than hot spices.

Tomorrow I'm going lamb shopping, because my Nz-exposed kids actually like lamb!

Meanwhile, other recipes in the book got a good workout for tonight's dinner.

[Chris Amirault]

That looks great Chris!

Yours is much yellower and therefore more curry-looking then mine - more turmeric I guess?

One question: did you grind the coriander and cumin yourself and if so, did you roast them before grinding?

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Yes, more turmeric than I usually use, too. I always toast and grind my own cumin, because we use so much of it. But the coriander this time was pre-ground (from Penzeys).

[Chris Amirault]

Chris, thank you for that marvelous photo tutorial, how much ghee did the pound of butter yield?  I really can't tell, but could that be 1 - 1.5 cups?

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You're welcome! And, yes, that sounds about right -- closer to 1 1/2 c, I think.

[torakris]

Torakris, which Madhur Jaffrey book do you plan to use? I'm going to use "A Taste of India" - "Lamb or Chicken with Green Coriander", a Kashimiri recipe with yogurt and fragrant rather than hot spices.

Tomorrow I'm going lamb shopping, because my Nz-exposed kids actually like lamb!

Meanwhile, other recipes in the book got a good workout for tonight's dinner.

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I was going to use a recipe from her "indian Cooking" book but am now going to do a vindaloo by Julie Sahni.

I like lamb, but rarely eat it in Japan because it is all from NZ/Australia and the taste is quite different from American lamb.....

[percyn]

I decided to make a very rare "curry" dish, Ambaklio Ma Gosht, which means (Goat/Lamb) Meat in Mangoes. I call this a rare dish, as it is unique to a very small sect of Indians, originally from Persia, called Parsis. If you are looking for something other than that heavily spiced gravy typically referred to as curry, this dish is for you. It has a sweet and salty taste to it.

This dish is really made by combining 2 separate dishes. One of them, Kharu Gosht literally means Savory/Salty meat. This forms the basis of the curry and is often enjoyed as a dish in its own right or combined with other ingredients to make other dishes, including Ambaklio Ma Gosht.

Ingredients for Kharu Gosht (serves 4-6, recipe from here):

2 lbs leg or shoulder of lamb, cut into 1" pieces. (you can also make this dish with chicken)

4 medium onions, finely sliced

1 tbsp mixed whole cinnamon, cloves and black cardamom

2 1/2" piece of ginger, ground (or use 1 tbsp ginger paste)

1 large garlic clove (I like garlic so added more)

1 tsp turmeric

2-3 tsp cumin

4-5 dried red (Kashmiri) chilies or 1 tsp chili powder

Salt to taste

2 tomatoes chopped (optional)

4-5 green chilies, slit and seeded (I sent light on these)

4 tbsp ghee or oil (homemade is best, but I used a combo of regular and pure ghee)

So on with the Prep...

Cut 1.5 - 2 lbs of goat or lamb into 1" pieces and marinate them for 1/2 hr in the garlic and ginger. I am using shoulder blade, which is cheap and readily available in the supermarket. I also find that using your hands to really massage in the garlic and ginger makes the meat more tender and flavorful.

Get your spices ready

Melt the ghee in a large pot (I used a pressure cooker), add the onions and lightly brown them. Add the cinnamon, cloves and cardamom and stir on a low flame for 1-2 minutes. Add 1 cup water and stir on medium heat until water evaporates and onions are mushy. Add turmeric, cumin and chilies to the onions and cook for 1-2 min. At this time, I also move the onions to one side and add in the meat to brown it. You can brown the meat separately if you like, but this works just fine.

Once the meat has been browned, add the tomatoes along with 1 cup water. If you are using a pressure cooker, cover it up and leave it on medium heat for 1 whistle (10-15 min), then lower the heat and simmer for 1/2 hr. If you are using a regular large pot, cover the pot and cook on medium for say 1/2 hr and simmer closed for 1/2 hr. If there is a lot of water, uncover and let some evaporate. The consistency you are looking for is not too think and not too watery.

Voila...you are ready to enjoy Kharu Gosht with some rice, roti or bread.

To make the Ambakalia (Mango sauce):

1 lg ambakalia mango (or 1 tin of alphonso slices, which is what i used)

1 lg onion sliced

1" piece cinnamon

4-6 cloves

4-6 green cardamoms (hint: don’t crush these if you are not accustomed to the taste)

100 gms Jaggery (Gur. I substituted for 1 tbsp sugar, would have used brown sugar if I had some)

2 green chilies, seeded and chopped

1 tbsp chopped corriander leaves

1/2 tsp salt

3 tbsp ghee

Fry the onions with the whole spiced until light brown. Add the remaining ingredients with 1/2 cup water and if you are using tinned mangoes, 1/2 can of mango juices/syrup. Simmer for 4-5 min, until ingredients blend together. Try to keep the mango slices whole.

Mix the mango mixture with the Kharu Gosht (as I have done here) or simply enjoy it by itself with some rice (traditionally khichdi) .

So there you go...3 dishes for the effort of 1....easy.

Kharu Gosht can also combined with other ingredients instead of mangoes to make other variations, such as eggplant, apricots (this is delicious), okra, bananas, drumsticks, etc.

The recipe I followed was based one listed in Parsi Food and Customs ). In selecting a recipe, I also looked at Jamva Chaloji and Suvir's Indian home cooking. I selected this because the recipe has been requested by other Indians as well, so I thought I would kill multiple birds with a single stone. Hope you enjoy it.

Cheers

Percy

[Eden]

Percy the apricot variation of your Gosht sounds SOOO good! I was actually thinking your mangoes were apricots when I first saw the pictures.

So wanting to do a curry I haven't tried before, I've decided to make Tamatar Gosht (Lamb in a spicy tomato sauce) and I have two different recipes, neither of which is quite what I want so I'm combining them, and I could use some help.

Primarily I'm working with the recipe from "Moghul Cooking; India's Courtly Cuisine" by Joyce Westrip, as it has the flavors I want as well as the various processes discussed above (popping spices, pureeing the garlic/ginger etc) but she calls for simmering lamb chops in the sauce rather than chunks of lamb, which I prefer, so I'm also working with a recipe from an Indian newspaper which is a simplified version, but seems to use stew meat. Unfortunately it also uses a pressure cooker, which is a technique I am not familiar with, so I'm having trouble figuring out how to convert to an appropriate simmering time.

The original instructions are, after browning the meat & combing all the various ingredients to "Add half a cup of water and put on pressure for three minutes. Let the pressure be reduced on its own." What would be an appropriate amount of time to simmer my dish to equate with this amount of pressure cooking?

I could of course just test little bites until the lamb is as tender as I want it but that would make it harder to time my rice to be ready at the same time...

[Abra]

Percyn, that mango looks delicious - I can't wait to try your recipe!

Now, in my case, this vindaloo I'm about to describe was a lesson in recycling, compromising, and weight watching. It wasn't the best vindaloo I've ever made, but it might have been the most interesting, and was definitely the most non-traditional. However, it was still pretty good.

In my freezer was a motley assortment of lamb remnants, left from a lamb I got from a neighbor last year. Here's all I had in the freezer

As you can see, there are about a dozen of the World's Tiniest Lamb Chops, really just one bite each. Then there are three tiny shanks, and a couple of pieces of "lamb steak", which seems like sirloin-type stuff. Lots of bones, and definitely sub-optimal for making a traditional vindaloo.

Then there were spices

Lots of garlic and ginger, coriander, cardamom, fenugreek, red pepper, turmeric, black mustard seed, and cinnamon. Although it's better to toast and grind the spices fresh, I didn't want to take the time yesterday, and used what I had, which was fresh, ground Penzey's spices. Again, less than perfect, but still good.

Normally when making vindaloo I fry a pile of onions in 10 Tablespoons of oil until they're really dark brown, almost but not quite burnt. But last night I wanted fewer calories, and decided to try it with only 4 Tablespoons of oil. Well, actually I tried it with only two, then added a third, then a fourth, until I had barely enough. These onions are only caramelized - there was no way to get them to the proper color without additional oil. So there's one big flavor component missing right there.

While the onions were cooking I popped the huge pile of bones into the pressure cooker and made lamb broth. I also put the shanks in with the bones, to tenderize them so that I could cut the meat up and it would be ready to eat with the rest of the meat. Even though I had trimmed the fat from the bones and meat before making the broth, there's still an amazing amount floating on top of the finished broth.

Then I took all the trimmings and cooked them up for our dog

The next step was to blend the caramelized onions and spices together in the food processor, and then, uh, fry them in more oil. Nope, no more oil, so into the pot went the naked puree. Another thing I always do is to brown the meat to a very deep color, in, of course, more oil. But this time I vowed I wasn't going to use any more oil, and so the meat went straight into the spice and onion puree without browning, all raw except for the meat from the shanks, which was somewhat cooked already. So there's another big hit to the flavor, no caramelized meat juices. The fresh lamb broth smoothed the sauce together, and I set the whole thing to simmer with a little prayer that no Indian kitchen goddesses were watching me. Are you thinking really terrible things about me yet?

While the vindaloo was simmering I dug in and picked all of the meat off the bones post-broth and served it to the cats

After all the pets had eaten, our supper was ready. It really looked, er, brown, so I added a few peas to cheer things up and served it over some red Wehani rice I had in the fridge. White rice would have made for a better picture, but it's the Weight Watcher in me that made me use red rice, unphotogenic though it is.

Please, don't mention that the cats' supper looked at least as good as mine did! But here's the thing. The freezer is now lamb-free. The dog and cats were fed for several meals. I have a big bowl of lamb broth to make Scotch broth or some such soup today. We had a more-than-decent dinner, and it was, while not low in calories, at least manageable for me. My normal vindaloo doesn't even fit into a week of weight watching, let alone a single meal.

So, no, it wasn't exactly vindaloo, more like a nice lamb stew with strong Indian flavors. But in the real world, we don't always have, or can't always use, the perfect ingredients and techniques. This was an exercise in improvisation, in making do, in seeing what good can come out of a series of compromises. The only thing holding me back from calling it a completely successful experiment in using what I had and wasting nothing is the fact that I can't think of a thing to do with that layer of lamb fat that's congealed on top of the broth. All suggestions welcomed!

[fifi]

Abra . . .

Using what you have is a great approach. I guess that is what I like about soups and gumbos. I am now wondering if making a curry to use what you have is a tradition in India.

It seems to me that, sort of like gumbo, there is a technique that, once mastered, lends itself to all sorts of improvisations. I used to make Thai curries a lot for quick meals during the week using leftovers. (Of course, for that I cheated a lot with curry paste from the tub and a can of coconut milk.)

I may not get to curry until this next weekend and haven't decided on a recipe yet. Keep sharing. I am learning a lot.

[suzilightning]

a question for all of you who know about using goat(something i love)...

the local butcher i use only has frozen goat and only leg. is this usable or should i try another butcher where i can get shoulder of lamb? still working on a recipe to use since i found out the library i work at has two books of indic cookery and neither has a meat dish in it .

[Milagai]

a question for all of you who know about using goat(something i love)...

the local butcher i use only has frozen goat and only leg.  is this usable or should i try another butcher where i can get shoulder of lamb?  still working on a recipe to use since i found out the library i work at has two books of indic cookery and neither has a meat dish in it .

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try this link for recipes:

http://www.massrecipes.com/cats/Raan

and use goat leg wherever they call for lamb.

raan refers to leg of goat (someone had a q about cuts).

milagai

[Chris Amirault]

Abra . . .

Using what you have is a great approach. I guess that is what I like about soups and gumbos. I am now wondering if making a curry to use what you have is a tradition in India.

It seems to me that, sort of like gumbo, there is a technique that, once mastered, lends itself to all sorts of improvisations. I used to make Thai curries a lot for quick meals during the week using leftovers. (Of course, for that I cheated a lot with curry paste from the tub and a can of coconut milk.)

I may not get to curry until this next weekend and haven't decided on a recipe yet. Keep sharing. I am learning a lot.

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I agree with Fifi. I think that there are a few basic techniques (the browning of the onions, the toasting of spices) and ingredients (usually onion, ginger, garlic -- though not always all three -- cumin, cardamom, cinnamon, pepper, kala jeera, etc.) that you can use with a variety of ingredients. There also seems to be fewer hard-and-fast rules about what must go in what dish (unlike, say, cassoulet or gumbo) -- but that may be my ignorance talking.

Also, Fifi, it's my understanding that south Indian or Keralan cuisine use coconut milk in their curries. Perhaps you could give that a go?

[helenjp]

I changed my mind and made a dopiaza with the lamb, because the two-step cooking process meant I could start it while out of the house.

The lamb, dry spices, ginger and garlic paste, and finely chopped onions first cooked slowly for an hour. When I came home, I reduced the cooking liquid, added a paste of cilantro, mint, lemon juice, and green chilies, and there we were.

I'm not sure whether this qualifies as a curry in most people's minds, but I had a Spring longing for something fresh and green!

Madhur Jeffrey lists it as Hyderabad dish, though my Afghan cookbook contains very similar recipes.

map of Hyderabad

Description of dopiaza method

Quickie dopiaza recipe

[fifi]

. . . . .

Description of dopiaza method

. . . . .

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This link is now in my favorites. Very informative. Thanks.

[mizducky]

I had no idea it would be so danged difficult to find decent lamb meat until I hit two different supermarkets and came up empty (okay, I did find a very few hunks of pre-packaged lamb, but of a size and price that just did not make sense for a person on a budget cooking just for herself). Gonna have to track down an actual butcher shop and give it another go sometime this weekend, 'cause y'all now have me jonesing for some lamb curry mighty fierce.

[Eden]

I made my Tamatar Gosht yesterday, and the result is so oniony in taste that I can't eat it.

I don't remember the last time I had an honest to gosh failure in the kitchen like this. And it's my own fault. I over-rode my instincts in order to follow a recipe, and I shouldn't have...

Below is the recipe I used. Ingredient amounts are taken almost verbatim from Westrip's recipe, and I really questioned the large quantity of onions in the puree, but decided that since this puree step was the one technique in here I haven't done before that I shouldn't mess with it...

here's a photo, you can see how the percentage of onion puree is really high to the other ingredients in the pan (obviously the lamb & tomatoes are yet to be added, but still...

and it was such a pretty looking pile of onions & spices...

Now I'm trying to decide if I can remake the sauce & transfer the lamb, or if there's any other way to salvage this.

I guess it was time for a reminder lesson that if you really KNOW there's something wrong with a recipe, you should trust your own judgement. I do SO prefer to learn from others mistakes reather than my own though

Tamatar Gosht (Lamb in a spicy tomato curry)

Modified from Joyce Westrip's "Moghul Cooking" & from The Tribune, India 11/21/04

2 roughly chopped onions

2 tsp roughly chopped garlic

2 tsp roughly chopped fresh ginger

2 tbsp water

Blend the onion garlic & ginger with the water to a smooth paste in a blender and set aside.

4 tbsp ghee

2 finely sliced large onions

4 cloves

4 cardamom pods, bruised

1 tsp cumin seeds

1 tsp black cumin seeds

1/2 tsp dark mustard seeds

2 fresh red chilies, seeds discarded, cut into strips

1 tsp turmeric ground

2.5 lbs chopped lamb

Heat the oil in a heavy-bottomed frying pan. Add the finely sliced onions and saute until the onions are past golden, but not yet dark. Add the cloves, cardamom, light and black cumin seeds, mustard seeds, chili strips and turmeric and stir-fry for 1 minute. Place the lamb in the pan and sear on all sides. Remove lamb from the pan and set aside. Add the blended paste to the pan and fry for a further 3 minutes or until the raw smell disappears.

[i went about 4 minutes & there was a clear & obvious change in the smell, so i'ts not that I skipped this part -E]

1 tsp salt

1/2 tsp ground black pepper

1 kg/2 lb pureed tomatoes

1/2 cup lightly whisked yoghurt

1 tsp Kashmiri garam masala

Stir in the salt, pepper, pureed tomatoes, and yoghurt. Bring to the boil and simmer for 5 minutes. Place the seared lamb in the sauce and simmer gently for 40 minutes or until the lamb is tender. A couple of minutes before completion, mix in the garam masala.

[percyn]

Eden,

The pic doesn’t look inedible to me

Looks like you used white onions. What size were they? It may be important to remember, that in India, the size of the onions are normally half those of the "super-sized" onions you typically find in the US. The closest sized onions are the ones you would find in a 2-3 lbs yellow onion bag in the grocery store (each onions is the size of a small clenched fist).