Braising: Le Creuset v All-Clad v Staub v Others

[Blondelle]

From reading the braising tests and seminar, it seems that Le Creuset has the edge on producing more tender, flavorful meat. I think Cooks Illustrated gave the slight edge to All-Clad in their Dutch oven article. For those who have made the same recipe in both vessels, do you also find Le Creuset having the edge? It seems the All-Clad was a bit easier to clean over the LC, but have you noticed much of a difference between the two? I'm trying to decide between keeping an All-Clad 4 qt. braiser or the 3.5 qt. Le Creuset buffet casserole.

I also wanted to say how much I'm enjoying that article and this board in general. I also love the photos posted of the cooking process and the finished dishes. I'm a newbie cook, and I'm in heaven here ;-).

[snowangel]

Be sure and read these two threads:

Le Creuset

And, I think that as the additional labs and discussions for the Braising Seminar unfold, more info will come out.

[Smithy]

I second what SnowAngel said: keep reading, the information is still coming! In addition, since you already have both pots, I suggest you try some of the experiments yourself and see which you prefer.

Great to have you around, Blondelle. This is a great web site, isn't it? I've learned a ton, and haven't passed my first anniversary as a member.

[Dave the Cook]

As it happens, these same two pots were just discussed over in Marlene's Pot Roast topic.

[slkinsey]

As soon as I get back my Le Creuset from Shaw I am going to do a little experimenting of my own. Le Creuset versus Staub versus Falk versus All-Clad versus foil pouch or something like that. I figure I might as well do something with all these remote temperature probes I have lying around.

[Safran]

As soon as I get back my Le Creuset from Shaw I am going to do a little experimenting of my own.  Le Creuset versus Staub versus Falk versus All-Clad versus foil pouch or something like that.  I figure I might as well do something with all these remote temperature probes I have lying around.

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I'm especially interested in the Le Creuset versus Staub. Perhaps they'll be equal, but then, maybe not.

[slkinsey]

The thing is that it's not going to be entirely equal, because I don't have entirely equal cookware. The Staub will be oval whereas the Le Creuset will be round. Still, though, should be interesting.

[Safran]

Invicta (www.invicta.fr) also makes Le Chasseur, which is identical to Le Creuset, except no bakelite... It's easy to find here in Canada, not sure in the States.

[Smithy]

As soon as I get back my Le Creuset from Shaw I am going to do a little experimenting of my own.  Le Creuset versus Staub versus Falk versus All-Clad versus foil pouch or something like that.  I figure I might as well do something with all these remote temperature probes I have lying around.

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I have probe envy.

With only one remote probe that had to be shared among several dishes, I didn't try leaving the probe in place and graphing temperature rise. That's coming up soon. Question for you, Sam: do you plan to do something to seal the gap that the probe wire will leave between the lid and the pot? Or just let the steam escape? Or is that yet another test?

[andiesenji]

The main different between the Le Cruset and the Staub is the little bumps on the underside of the Staub lids where steam condenses and drips onto the meat, or whatever is being cooked, in an even pattern, instead of running down the sides of the pan.

The Staub lids even have a depression where you can put ice if you want to speed up the drip-drop self-basting process.

Old, old cast iron Dutch ovens had these "drip-drip" basting points and my old Descoware cookware had raised concentric rings on the underside of the lids that filled the same purpose.

I pulled out a couple of my old "Guardianware" cast aluminum braziers and they too have the "basting dimples" on the underside of the lids.

This is not a new idea and it does work quite well. It all depends on what you like and how much you are willing to spend.

My Bourgeat copper pans, have flat lids with raised rims that actually set down into the pans. This has a similar effect to the basting points, that is, the steam condenses on the underside of the lids and drips back onto the center area of the pot instead of running down the sides inside the pots or pans, as happens with a domed lid. Calphalon lids are made the same way.

When I choose a pan, I consider the shape of the lid, as well as the shape, size and weight of the pan, depending on what it is to be used for.

I choose domed lids when I do NOT want liquid to be dripping onto the food in the center of the pan.

[Marlene]

As Dave mentioned, I have both the Le Cruset braisier and the All Clad dutch oven. Both of mine are 5 1/2 quarts. I did a pot roast in the Le Cruset and it was amazing. Since I have an identical roast in the freezer, and Fat Guy insists the All Clad was made for pot roast, I shall try that pot next and see if there is any difference.

[Richard Kilgore]

Invicta  (www.invicta.fr) also makes Le Chasseur, which is identical to Le Creuset, except no bakelite...   It's easy to find here in Canada, not sure in the States.

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I believe Le Chasseur is made in the same factory as Staub. It's the lower-priced spread, not being quite as well finished and not quite as heavy as the Staub and Le Cruset, but still a very, very good oven. In the US you can sometimes find them at TJ Maxx and Marshall's.

[slkinsey]

The main different between the Le Cruset and the Staub is the little bumps on the underside of the Staub lids. . .

I think (and shall attempt to verify) that Staub is a little thicker/heavier as well.

[Safran]

The main different between the Le Cruset and the Staub is the little bumps on the underside of the Staub lids where steam condenses and drips onto the meat, or whatever is being cooked, in an even pattern, instead of running down the sides of the pan. 

The Staub lids even have a depression where you can put ice if you want to speed up the drip-drop self-basting process.

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Le Creuset has a similar model...used to be sold under Cousances. The inside is beige, not dark. I noticed that WmS and I think Sur la Table offer those models also.

[Safran]

I believe Le Chasseur is made in the same factory as Staub. It's the lower-priced spread, not being quite as well finished and not quite as heavy as the Staub and Le Cruset, but still a very, very good oven.

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Staub is made in Alsace. Chasseur, a division of Invicta, is made in Ardennes. Among other things, Invicta also produces bbq's, cast iron fireboxes, and those cute cast iron "feet" on marble tables.

[Cornucopiae]

Invicta  (www.invicta.fr) also makes Le Chasseur, which is identical to Le Creuset, except no bakelite...    It's easy to find here in Canada, not sure in the States.

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I believe Le Chasseur is made in the same factory as Staub. It's the lower-priced spread, not being quite as well finished and not quite as heavy as the Staub and Le Cruset, but still a very, very good oven. In the US you can sometimes find them at TJ Maxx and Marshall's.

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Hi Le Chasseur is made by Le Creuset (and not STAUB). STAUB makes 2 other brands of their own (for hypermarket and caterers). STAUB is pretty premium stuff and hence guess why chefs prefer it as opposed to Le Creuset. Also STAUB's interior is a porous material unlike Le Creuset (which is smooth - kinda like cooking in glass) - i think items braised in glass.. do not taste the same as porous material whihc helps braising, reducing and caremelising.

[Cornucopiae]

I believe Le Chasseur is made in the same factory as Staub. It's the lower-priced spread, not being quite as well finished and not quite as heavy as the Staub and Le Cruset, but still a very, very good oven.

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Staub is made in Alsace. Chasseur, a division of Invicta, is made in Ardennes. Among other things, Invicta also produces bbq's, cast iron fireboxes, and those cute cast iron "feet" on marble tables.

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sorry - Cousances. Le Chasseur is another producer - apologies. STAUB makes NOMAR and FOTIGNAC

[k43]

The Le Creuset model is the Doufeu. It has a depression in the lid for ice or water and small nibs on the bottom of the lid. I made a stovetop potroast in mine last week that was superb.

LA Times did a comparison last week between a Le Creuset round French oven, a Staub LaCocotte and an Emile Henry ceramic Flame-Top Stewpot. They strongly preferred the Le Creuset.

LA Times Story

[slkinsey]

With all due respect to Donna Deane of the LA Times, this comparison is so horribly flawed as to be worthless. Just to point out a few of the problems:

1. She did all the braising in the oven, which does much to mitigate Staub's advantage of having a heavier construction. It also more or less eliminates the function of the "basting spikes" by making the lid too hot (how will steam condense on a 225F hot metal lid?).

2. She compares a 5.5 quart Le Creuset against a 5 quart Staub and then "rewards" Le Creuset by saying that it has more surface area. Had she compared the 4.4 quart Le Creuset against a 5 quart Staub, of course, the advantage would have gone the other way.

3. She mentions nothing about the fact that Le Creuset is notoriously poor at browning and says that "against [staub's] dark interiors, our lamb shanks inadvertently went past searing and into burn territory." I use a special technique called "paying attention" to make sure that burning doesn't occur, but I would also suggest that this demonstrates that Staub is far superior at browning compared to Le Creuset.

4. She claims that Le Creuset has a tighter/better fitting lid. Not true in my experience, but I suppose there is some variation from piece to piece.

5. No mention is made of the fact that the knobs on Le Creuset's bakelite knobs are notoriously faulty, often falling off as one is trying to pick up a hot lid. Staub's brass knobs never have this problem.

6. Finally, she didn't cook the two dishes the same way. She somehow concludes that because Staub has "basting spikes" in the lid, she would leave that pot entirely alone. She does, however, "[pull] the Le Creuset out twice to baste and once to turn over the shanks" (emphasis mine). I doubt that her basting had much effect, but turning the shanks over will definitely have a big effect, and even if she decided to not baste the Staub shanks in order to evaluate the "basting spikes" she still should have turned the Staub shanks over at the same time she did the Le Creuset shanks. Later she observes that "the exposed parts of the lamb shanks were also quite dry" as a negative. If she had turned the shanks that wouldn't have happened.

I'm not saying that there aren't reasons to prefer Le Creuset over Staub. Just that this "comparison" didn't do anything to enlighten.

[eje]

I use a special technique called "paying attention" to make sure that burning doesn't occur

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Oh, Ouch!

[slkinsey]

Well... here's the thing: There are times you shouldn't have to pay attention to prevent burning. This is generally during the "low/slow" part of the cooking process. You shouldn't have to pay attention to your slowly simmering tomato sauce to avoid a burn ring on the bottom. If that happens, the cookware is flawed. On the other hand, high heat searing/browning is one of those things where you do have to pay attention. If she burned in the Staub and not in the Le Creuset it is only because the Le Creuset takes so much longer to brown.

[budrichard]

I don't think that it is going to be easy to get non-biased quantitative results. The variables are many. You must use the same ingrediants for each roast you make and then have a blind tasting panel for judgement and even then the tasters bring thier own preconcieved notions of what is good to the table, so to speak. The best you will get are qualitative results that probably are not translatable to other users. I really believe that a good cook/chef could cook with just about anything and get good results. Its more about quality of ingrediants, technique and effort. -Dick

[Steven Blaski]

5. No mention is made of the fact that the knobs on Le Creuset's bakelite knobs are notoriously faulty, often falling off as one is trying to pick up a hot lid.  Staub's brass knobs never have this problem.

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When did LC start using Bakelite knobs? Recently I got rid of my entire set of LC (purchased in the late 70s); the lids were crowned with cast iron loops as opposed to "knobs" -- all of a piece with the lid. Seems really dumb of LC to switch to making the knob a separate part, and plastic to boot.

[mrbigjas]

Well... here's the thing:  There are times you shouldn't have to pay attention to prevent burning.  This is generally during the "low/slow" part of the cooking process.  You shouldn't have to pay attention to your slowly simmering tomato sauce to avoid a burn ring on the bottom.  If that happens, the cookware is flawed.  On the other hand, high heat searing/browning is one of those things where you do have to pay attention.  If she burned in the Staub and not in the Le Creuset it is only because the Le Creuset takes so much longer to brown.

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why is that? just because it's light colored, or is it something to do with the enamel itself--or is it some other aspect of the construction?

[naf]

I did some research before choosing a "cocotte" of my life, from either Le Creuset and Staub. Staub usually comes with a brass knob that can withstand very high heat (up to 500˚F) while Le Creuset's bakelite knobs can only withstand up to 355˚F (180˚C according to their French website). I guess if you are in a professional kitchen, you don't want trouble of have melting or cracking knobs with certain recipes that require higher cooking temperature.

Edited April 8, 2007 by naf (log)