Pate a Choux - The Topic - Ask Questions Here.

[chiantiglace]

it does sound like your recipe was too soft, if you wanted to try it again i suggest (before adding the eggs) keep the the mix on medium heat constantly stirring until it forms a consistancy almost like play-doh while pulling away from the pan is if it were all "one" single element.

Though to go a safe route i'd just use C.P.'s recipe. Looks stable. I like Milk in my pate a choux. I've also attempted over 10 different recipes and hers seems to have a nice balance, a little sweeter than most ive seen too.

[Shalmanese]

For the Record, here are the 3 pate a choux recipes:

Joy:

1 cup flour

1 cup water/milk

1/3 cup butter

4 or 5 eggs

Larousse:

125 gm flour

1 cup water/milk

65gm butter

4 eggs

Alton:

5 3/4 oz flour

1 cup water

6 tbsp butter

4 eggs & 2 egg whites

They all have 1 cup of water in common, Converting them all to a sane measurement system (;)), the butter flour ratio you get:

Joy:

125:75 = 5:3

Larousse

120:60 = 2:1

Alton

160:80 = 2:1

Guh, the sooner you people go metric the better.

Okay, I see now that my dough had much too much water which I failed to drive out. This, in turn meant I couldn't put as much egg in which stopped it from rising. I will try this again tomorrow.

[chiantiglace]

you have to measure everything out one way or the other, doesn't bother me what you give i'll be able to figure it out even you decide to hide in a calculas equation.

It would be nice to be a universal system, i blame the schools. HA

[TurtleMeng]

I made a bunch of eclairs but found them to be not too puffy. They tasted great but still. Then I discovered that some people recommend baking these initially @ 425 (I used 375) and decrease by 50 degrees after they have puffed up. Is that your experience?

Probably using higher gluten flour would also help (used all purpose)

[jgarner53]

Did they puff and then collapse, or did they just not puff enough? If they collapsed, then you didn't bake them long enough. They need to bake long enough to dry out a bit and set. I start at 375 and then drop to 325. When they're done, I shut off the oven and leave them another 10 minutes before taking them out.

[chefpeon]

After I originally started this thread, I did a LOT of experimenting, and came up with what I

believe to be the perfect recipe for Pate a Choux. It works great for me.....every time. I'm

really glad I took the time to play around with this.

Edited February 12, 2005 by chefpeon (log)

[I82Much]

I've successfully made cream puffs before, but I recently tried making eclairs and they failed miserably - they didn't rise AT all. I have pictures of the whole debacle but they're on the other computer.

I was VERY frustrated after that, especially considering how much time and effort i spent on them.

I used the recipe from Sherri Yard's Secrets of Baking book, following it to the T. Not sure what to do differently but I suppose I can start from these replies

[chiantiglace]

I agree with Neil, i've never used the mixer to beat my eggs in, i turn off the heat and beat the eggs in gradually with a wooden spoon. Then i pipe all the mix onto sheet pans and freeze.

[TurtleMeng]

There's a considerable thread about Pate a Choux here.

←

Thanks. I just finished reading it. Apparently some people do 375 and some do 425. Like you mentioned before, supposedly the higher temp should help the "burst" of steam, but that might not work, esp after reading that someone had no success with Sherry Yard's recipe (she calls for 425). Well, will just have to try it to see.

[nightscotsman]

I agree with Neil, i've never used the mixer to beat my eggs in, i turn off the heat and beat the eggs in gradually with a wooden spoon.  Then i pipe all the mix onto sheet pans and freeze.

←

Not sure where you read that, but I personally always use the mixer to add the eggs.

[amclaud]

For those of you who are pro's -- does anyone else use the convection oven for choux? I use my deck ovens for almost everything, but for choux and puff pastry I always go convection.

With the choux I find this gives me the best results -- and quickly. I get a nice, fully cooked, brown exterior but the insides are still moist... not undercooked, but moist.

I don't, however, have the best luck with choux piped the day before and baked from frozen or chilled. I never get the same puff as when I bake them right away. And freezing them after baking leaves them soggy.... and then when I re-crisp them they seem to dry. I guess I'm only satisfied when they're baked the same day...

[chiantiglace]

Ha, I guess I did jumble my sentence up a little bit, I meant to say I agreed with what you said, AND this is how I do it etc.

Edited February 12, 2005 by chiantiglace (log)

[zora]

Chefpeon, just curious about how many standard-size (whatever that is) cream puffs you'd get out of a batch of your pate? I guess I'm thinking 1-inch or 1.5-inch puffs? I'm trying to do croquembouche calculations...

[chefpeon]

Chefpeon, just curious about how many standard-size (whatever that is) cream puffs you'd get out of a batch of your pate? I guess I'm thinking 1-inch or 1.5-inch puffs? I'm trying to do croquembouche calculations...

You know, I couldn't honestly tell ya. I never bother to calculate anyway. I sorta know by "feel".....yeah, I know that's not real helpful. I just make a crapload of puffs and a crapload of pastry cream. If I have cream and puffs left over it's ok, because I can always use them for

something else right away. I'm real fortunate that way.

The best I can remember is that I filled up 5 full sheet pans with 1.5 inch puffs......but I can't remember how many rows I did........

edited to add: I usually figure my croques out at 3-4 puffs per person. So if I were feeding 50 people, it would be between 150-200 puffs.

Edited February 17, 2005 by chefpeon (log)

[zora]

Thanks...that's a start!

[thecuriousone]

Hi All,

My first attempt at choux pastry didnt rise. The recipes I checked before trying this were Julia Child's in "Baking" and Jacques Pepin in "La Technique". I went with the Julia recipe. I'm not sure that I cooked it long enough, but I got the light crust she spoke of before I transferred it to the bowl. I piped them out with a star tip and they had volume but fell flat on the pan and didnt rise in the oven. They tasted OK, they just werent pretty.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[Carolyn Tillie]

Were they easy to pipe? I'm wondering about your consistency and I have found that the heavier the dough (subsequently, a tad harder to pipe out) is better for rising. If the dough was easy, it may have been too thin to rise.

[maggie]

Were they easy to pipe? I'm wondering about your consistency and I have found that the heavier the dough (subsequently, a tad harder to pipe out) is better for rising. If the dough was easy, it may have been too thin to rise.

←

Right, I wonder if you dried the dough out in the pan (it will pull completely away from the pan as you stir), or if you added the right amount of eggs. When you stuck your finger in the paste while it was in the mixer, while you were adding eggs, did the dough flop over like a "bird's beak?" Because it should have. Also, it's really important to not open the oven door the first 5 minutes, at least. They build up steam while they rise, and if you open the door, they get a rush of cold air and that can make them collapse.

[KarenS]

Maggie is right that drying out the dough (before adding the eggs) is really important. This is where I have seen most mistakes made. Cook the dough (turning and folding over) until there is a thick skin on the bottom of the pan. I make large batches- so I then put it in the hobart and paddle it on low for a few minutes so that more steam is released- before starting to add the eggs.

[Wendy DeBord]

I keep thinking you over cooked your dough. I can't say that I cook my paste until I get a "light crust"..........that seems extreme to me. I do cook it for a couple minutes after I dump the flour in sort of like a roux..........but if your getting a "crust" then your frying your dough.

I would guess that you'd have a hard time incorporating your eggs then. Did you?

The piped out dough before it's baked should NOT have gone flat. It should have held it's shape for hours (maybe days), unbaked. If it went flat and you didn't have a struggle getting your eggs smoothly incorporated into your dough, then I suspect you added too much egg, That's the only plauseable answer.

If a choux puff goes flat after baking it, that's usually because it was under baked and it deflated.

[Woods]

Hi All,

My first attempt at choux pastry didnt rise.  The recipes I checked before trying this were Julia Child's in "Baking" and Jacques Pepin in "La Technique".  I went with the Julia recipe.  I'm not sure that I cooked it long enough, but I got the light crust she spoke of before I transferred it to the bowl.  I piped them out with a star tip and they had volume but fell flat on the pan and didnt rise in the oven.  They tasted OK, they just werent pretty.

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks

←

Another factor to consider that if the butter liquid was not at a FULL boil when you dumped in the flour they won't do much. I only dry mine in the pan until it just begins to stick to the bottom. Did you cool it some before adding the eggs? I'd say just try again or look a Shirely Corriher's recipe (less yolks, more whites).

[Wendy DeBord]

I wanted to share this thread: here. I found it amazing and I hope you all do too.

[chefpeon]

Thanks for sharing the link to "Beard Papa's", Wendy!

It's so funny.....the name.....the logo. Never in my wildest imagination would I look at a picture of an old fisherman type dude, and the name "Beard Papa's" and think it was a pastry place. All I can think of is "seafood"!!!

But those cream puffs sure look good! I think they're successful because of one very important thing.....the best cream puff is the freshly filled cream puff. No time for the custard cream to soften the lovely crispy outside, and it doesn't take long for that to happen!

[Fivesecondrule]

I would guess that from your description you had too many eggs. I think the amount of eggs is supposed to be equal in weight to the amount of oil or butter used in the boiling step. If you are counting out individual eggs, the size could throw off the measurement. Try whisking the eggs, and measuring an equal amount in volume to the oil or butter. They are pretty equal in density. The part about stirring in the flour until you get as much of the liquid out of the batter as you can is also very important to the rising. It is the eggs that make the "puff". I have made some bad cream puffs before like this due to an error in a handwritten recipe.

[mukbo]

I love Papa Beard's cream puff.

To save some money, I decied to make them by myself.

I red all the choux recipes Including Japanese one.

My attempt to save money was ended up with lots of soggy choux..

My dough looks like this.

Is this too thick?

Anyway, I piped ,egg washed, sprayed water and baked.

Came out OK.

Inside looks like this.

But why soggy?

Beard Papa is laughing at me.

Anyway I filled it with pastry cream and ate it...

Any tip for crispy choux...

In professional kitchen.. How do they do to keep it crispy?

Edited June 11, 2005 by mukbo (log)