Varmint's New Kitchen

[JohnN]

I have had solid wood doors, and will never have them again. 

The doors in the overcounter cabinets on either side of the sink and the door in the undercounter cabinet next to the dishwasher warped, cracks developed between the boards and the doors would not close all the way. 

The drawer fronts also warped in a couple of places. 

These were supposed to be top quality cabinets, we paid a great deal for them from a kitchen design company and I was very disappointed with them.

Interesting. What kind of wood, finish and style? Where they build by a mfg company, or custom built?

-john

[andiesenji]

They were "country-style" planks tongue & groove with top & bottom wrought iron straps with a "Z" strap from corner to corner. They were custom made - the job was done by a well-known Kitchen design place in Burbank. The wood was pecky cypress and extremely expensive.

[andiesenji]

I guess it's too late for you east coast and midwest people but at 9 Pacific time HGTV has a show called Kitchen Trends 2005. They showcase new kitchen stuff for 2005.

And did anyone catch ABC's evening news.

Sharp has a new superheated steam oven which has been very popular in Japan and will be introduced to the US this summer.

It is supposed to cook things at high heat with steam so the fat cooks away but they don't dry out. This is for people who want to cut fat out of their diet and lose weight.

Press release here.

And it looks really cool too!!

Jeez, I am going to suffer oven envy for several months.

[JohnN]

They were "country-style" planks tongue & groove with top & bottom wrought iron straps with a "Z" strap from corner to corner.  They were custom made - the job was done by a well-known Kitchen design place in Burbank.  The wood was pecky cypress and extremely expensive.

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I suspect this style is esp. tricky to get right and if it was unusual custom wood, I wonder if they let it season enough. My guess is this stuff needed to sit around for a couple of months and it is hard to imagine a shop doing that for wood they don't use often.

Certainly, if even the drawer fronts warped, I would tend to think this supports my suspision. Unless the drawers were HUGE, this shouldn't happen (IMO).

Isn't cypress similar to poplar? I think the less dense woods are all much more prone to warpage.

-john

Edited January 11, 2005 by JohnN (log)

[Varmint]

I ordered my main sink last night from Homeclick's eBay site. The Blanco 810-574 is usually $577, including shipping. I got it from their eBay site for $524, including shipping.

I then ordered ALL my other appliances today from an internet dealer as well. I've heard all sorts of stories about whether it's safe to buy from the internet, but I've decided to outfit nearly my entire kitchen using the resources of the World Wide Web!!! Perhaps this will be a live and learn story, but we'll see. I ordered from a Philadelphia-based company known as Ajax Philadelphia, Inc. Their website is http://www.cuttingedgekitchens.com/, although they're creating a new identity under the site http://www.cuttingedgeappliance.com. I had the pleasure of dealing directly with Ajax's owner, Van Weiss, and he was quite helpful. Here's the breakdown of pricing:

GE-ZDP36N6HSS GE Monogram 6 Burner Dual Fuel range

4,999.00

GE-ZET938SFSS GE Monogram 30" Single Wall Oven

1,649.00

VH-PRH18236SS 36'' wide Vent-a-Hood with 600 cfm blower and halogen lights

1590.00

BO-SHY56A05 Bosch Integra Dishwasher-Ltd edition-SS

999.00 (yeah, I ended up going with the Bosch)

WK-SS8000 Waste King Gourmet Disposer. 1Hp. Continous Feed.

189.00 each, 2 for 378.00

Package Discount (337.00)

Total, including shipping: $9,278.00

This is about $150 under the budget I stated above, and I'm getting a better hood and an arguably better dishwasher. So far, so good!

I want to again say how much of a pleasure it was dealing with Van Weiss. He's turned to the internet to rescue a failing business, and he's done a remarkable job. Do a Google search for "Ajax Philadelphia", and you'll find a number of stories about what he's done.

[Rachel Perlow]

I was thinking the price for the garbage disposals was high, but I looked up what I paid for my Insinkerator 777ss (1.0 hp) and it was closer to $200. So good job.

[Varmint]

If you look at each line item, you might have found it at a better price elsewhere. If you look at the entire set of appliances, no one came close to the net price (particularly when including tax and delivery). This will be delivered into my home, which is another advantage. If I had purchased these locally, I would have paid about $50 for the delivery plus 7% sales tax on prices that already exceeded these.

[andiesenji]

Fantastic, Varmint!

You are on your way with a bang.

I think you did great on your appliances and didn't have to compromise on anything.

I think the Bosch is an excellent dishwasher and would probably have been my choice had I not wanted one that could do multiple loads rapidly. The price is right also.

[Daddy-A]

This is fun! I love spending other people's money!

Even though I know there's a difference in the Canadian and US dollar, those prices still make me shake my head. The waste disposal for example ... my wholesale cost on the ISE ProSS (3/4 HP, SS lined) is $200! Oh for a larger market!

A.

[Darcie B]

Back to the cabinets. When we remodeled last year, we went with cabinets from Lowe's (no cabinetmakers here that we could afford). We upgraded to plywood backs and sides, and the fronts and doors are solid wood. We live in a climate of varying humidity and have not noticed ANY warping. Our cabinets are made of hickory, which is quite hard (as we discovered when face screwing them together) but has pronounced differences in the colors and grain characteristics, which we like. You can see the cabinets here: kitchen remodel. The photos aren't the greatest but I can't locate the newest photos. Must have deleted them.

Also, I agree with going with your gut instinct. We didn't trust our gut with the ONLY piece of the kitchen remodel we contracted out, the Corian countertop. (My husband is great. He used to do commercial HVAC, and he is a great plumber and electrician to boot. We saved a ton of money. The remodel above, including appliances and all materials, cost about $16k. I laid the tile floor, helped install cabinets, did all the woodwork, and did the painting. Hub did the rest.) We had the kitchen ready for the countertop in 3.5 weeks (working mainly evenings and weekends.)

Anyway, it took that sumbitch countertop guy 9 WEEKS to install the Corian, and it was wrong the first time. He unscrewed the wall oven cabinet and pushed it over 1/4 inch because he cut the top wrong. I made him remove and reinstall it. It still isn't 100% right (goes slightly uphill at the sink) but I gave up. I needed my kitchen back! We didn't have any performance clause with the guy because we subcontracted through Lowe's. They were of no help in dealing with this delay. Get as much in writing as you can.

My husband and I did have a written contract with each other about what we were going to do so we wouldn't fight about the project. It worked.

Varmint, I have appliance envy. We went with electric cooktop b/c we have to tear out basement ceiling to run a gas line. Hopefully I can get one in a year or so. Good luck with your project; I'll be following this thread with interest.

Sorry for the long post but I needed to vent about the countertop guy. Trust your gut.

[JohnN]

Congrats! Nothing says commitment like ordering $10K of appliances! :-)

BTW, minor tip regarding the Bosch dishwasher. We have nearly the same model. One thing to watch out for is getting liquid dishwashing detergent on the plastic control bar. If you get some on there and it dries, it is a huge pain to get it off. I kept finding these fingerprints that were horrible to remove until I realized what was happening. I did find that the soft-scrub stuff for our glass cooktop works pretty well for getting it off, but I think it might actually take a bit of the finish off the plastic, so this isn't a good long term solution. The real solution of course is to... not do that. :-)

-john

[mjr_inthegardens]

Congrats!  Nothing says commitment like ordering $10K of appliances!  :-)

BTW, minor tip regarding the Bosch dishwasher.  We have nearly the same model.  One thing to watch out for is getting liquid dishwashing detergent on the plastic control bar.  If you get some on there and it dries, it is a huge pain to get it off.  I kept finding these fingerprints that were horrible to remove until I realized what was happening.  I did find that the soft-scrub stuff for our glass cooktop works pretty well for getting it off, but I think it might actually take a bit of the finish off the plastic, so this isn't a good long term solution.  The real solution of course is to... not do that.  :-)

-john

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I am buying the bosch SHY66 series model for my kitchen remodel and will keep this in mind...

It's funny... like Varmint I was planning onthe maytag 9750 but have decided to get the nicer and I suspect much quieter Bosch for the extra money.

Will watch out for the Dwasher liquid problem!

-MJR

[Varmint]

Ken Able, the owner of cabinetrydirect.com, is sending me 3 more door samples to help me in my decision-making process. We spent over an hour on the phone today, and I can say with a very high level of confidence that there is no way in hell I could have ever gotten the cabinets from a Home Depot. This guy thinks of every option and can make any minor (or major) adjustment needed to get it right. The level of detail and the amount of attentiveness has been unbelievable. He's spent at least 4-5 hours on the phone with me, thoroughly scrutinized my plans and specs, procured, prepared and shipped samples, and I've yet to send him one penny. This guy goes the extra mile, and I think I'm going to end up with some kick-ass cabinets as a result.

I also decided that I'm going with a blue pearl granite tile for my countertop. I'll be purchasing 12X12" tiles for the regular counters and 18X18" tiles for the eating bar. We'll bullnose some of those tiles for the edge, and we've decided to add 45 degree edges at the corners of the bar to avoid the sharp square angles. I need about 100 square feet of the granite tile, and it's sold at $7.95 a square foot from this new, small, local tile shop that I discovered at lunch today. We're using a nice gray porcelain tile for the floor. I'll try and get a picture. This goes for about $4 a square foot, which is a bit more than I initially planned, but it goes perfect with the granite. Plus, my countertop hard costs are under budget (although I saw this incredibly beautiful azul macaubas tile that is drop dead gorgeous. It's only $25 a foot, but man, it's unbelievable. The thing is, most places list azul macaubas as a granite, but others say it's a marble. It's not really an option because of price, but if it has the chemical characteristics of a marble (i.e., keep acids away), I'd be less bummed about not getting it.

[snowangel]

Thanks for the update. I hope you like your granite as much as I do. Make sure and let your family know that they die if they use good knives directly on the granite. The only problem I have is when I go to houses where people don't have granite. I've gotten so used to setting down really hot things directly on the counter! I ended up with solid granite (not tiles) from a monument company. It was "reasonable," and certainly better than the leatherette textured formica (read -- get out a toothbrush to keep all of the texture clean).

And, let us know what you think of the samples. In some ways I'm sorry that I didn't replace the cupboards and cabinets before we put in new counters (they are darker than I would like), but they are so well built and classy that I couldn't justify getting rid of them.

I dream of a pocelain or ceramic tile floor, but Heidi just flat falls too much, so something softer. I haven't gotten around to that, but I've been experimenting on the nicotine-stained ceiling (yet another story).

[snowangel]

Have you budgeted for knobs for the cabinets? Do the cabinets come with hinges? Personal shock at what one can spend. One didn't seem so high, but when I came home and started counting...yikes.

[fifi]

One word for cabinet hardware . . . Ikea. I have looked at the selection of pulls that they have, in person, and I am really impressed. I will probably go that way even if my cabinets are job built. The quality and price are just awesome. I checked the web site for ordering information but I am coming up empty. Sorry I don't have a link to the selections.

[Varmint]

Have you budgeted for knobs for the cabinets?  Do the cabinets come with hinges?  Personal shock at what one can spend.  One didn't seem so high, but when I came home and started counting...yikes.

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My master budget list, which is more detailed than what I've provided here, does allow about 800 bucks for cabinet hardware, which is for handles only. The cabinets come with top-of-the-line Blum hinges and full-extension drawer mechanisms.

[mnebergall]

Beware the apparent sales tax savings. You are obligated to pay North Carolina use tax (probably the same rate as the NC sales tax) on your out of state purchases. There is probably a line on your NC state income tax return where you can report your use tax obligation. I recently bought some furniture from a NC company and reported the VA use tax on my VA income tax return (because I know that NC and VA taxing authorities share information on this type of stuff).

[Varmint]

There's a safe harbor that we in NC can use. Don't worry about that!

[Boris_A]

about 800 bucks for cabinet hardware, which is for handles only.  The cabinets come with top-of-the-line Blum hinges and full-extension drawer mechanisms.

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Congrats on your Blum hinges. Hettich comes near, but Blum is top. Nice to know that the my brand of hinges will be used in one of the worlds most famous kitchens.

You might check Haefele's online catalogue to get (another?) idea about handles. Haefele is a worldwide supplier of pretty good furniture hardware.

Go: Product range > Furniture fittings > Wardrobe/cabinet fittings > Wardrobe front Furniture handles > Zinc diecast

"Zinc diecast" variant offers some beautiful, durable and truly ergonomic handles in the $20 range.

[fifi]

OK! I nearly choked on my coffee when I saw what you have budgeted for handles. I can't find the details on the web site but this picture shows some solid, heavy stainless steel handles that are $7.99 (US) for a package of two. I checked in my kitchen catalog. I have had these in my hand and they are substantial. They have a lot of other styles and finishes. This was just one picture that I could find as an example that I could put a price on. Having looked at handles until I am blue in the face and knowing how much they can cost, when I was rummaging around in the handles at Ikea, my jaw kept dropping. Makes me think I am in the wrong business. $20 for a handle? Nope . . . Can't do it. Even if I won the lottery.

[snowangel]

When I decided I needed to change the knobs/handles in our former kitchen (they were gunk collectors), I went to a local building center. I asked if I could borrow several different handles, promising to return them in as new condition. Reminded them that looking at the handles on the cabinets and panels they had was far different than seeing them on my cabinets, and far different than actually using them. I impressed upon them that it was a substantial purchase I would be making (120 handles/knobs; yes, it was a huge kitchen with a ton of cabinets/cupboards).

It was amazing. What I thought I liked the least (in the showroom) proved to be the winning choice. Looked better on my cabinets than on what they had it on. Cleanability was great (a big factor). Who wants to take a toothbrush to the cabinet hardware when you are having company?

[winesonoma]

OK! I nearly choked on my coffee when I saw what you have budgeted for handles. I can't find the details on the web site but this picture shows some solid, heavy stainless steel handles that are $7.99 (US) for a package of two. I checked in my kitchen catalog. I have had these in my hand and they are substantial. They have a lot of other styles and finishes. This was just one picture that I could find as an example that I could put a price on. Having looked at handles until I am blue in the face and knowing how much they can cost, when I was rummaging around in the handles at Ikea, my jaw kept dropping. Makes me think I am in the wrong business. $20 for a handle? Nope . . . Can't do it. Even if I won the lottery.

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It's the cost of making it, one off items that you don't sell a lot of. Go to the local HD or Lowes and see what is mass produced and compare quality. As a very old friend said to me once (and he was old) "The concept of junk is not a new one."

[fifi]

I can't find the details on the web site but It's the cost of making it, one off items that you don't sell a lot of. Go to the local HD or Lowes and see what is mass produced and compare quality. As a very old friend said to me once (and he was old) "The concept of junk is not a new one."      

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Rest assured, I have compared quality. Most of what is in the big box stores is junk. Oddly enough, there is also a lot of junk in the "architectural antique" emporiums here so your friend's assessment is correct. The high end kitchen remodeling shops here have some amazing stuff but compared to what I saw, it is not worth the price. Granted, what is in Ikea and of the most impressive quality is in the contemporary style. No surprise there. For instance, they have some handles that "match" the handle design on my GE appliances and are very functional. Example on the icemaker here. (Click on the photo gallery.) These are heavy, very well made and functional. $7.99 (US) for a package of two.

[Boris_A]

In my opinion, Ikea (and I bought my first item there 30 years ago) is a mixed bag. A lot of good design. I've seen great, massive SS reelings just side by side with incredibly thinly gauged SS worktops, which I would ruin within two years.

Provided you examine quality, you can make great deals. But just be careful with every single item. Having that said, I've no doubt that Ikea USA has some very attractive offers.