Chef has discovered an enzyme...

[NulloModo]

From the info on the site, this stuff appears to bond when chilled, not heated, but then again, it doesn't specifically mention anything about heating it on the site...

Was this shrimp pasta dish served cold or hot?

EDIT:

Now, that I look above, it was posted that the optimal temp range is 115 - 140 degrees. I wonder then if that is for bonding to occur in the first place, or for it to stay bonded... Since all of the demonstrations say to chill overnight, I am assuming that perhaps the enzyme just loses hold if taken above those temps, or am I reading it completely wrong?

I suppose even if you did need to keep the temp low before serving you could cook the shrimp first, make a paste with the enzyme, and then poach the resultant 'pasta' in butter or something in that 115 - 140 degree range to warm it for service.

Edited January 2, 2005 by NulloModo (log)

[646522]

It's a cold set product. It can either be used in a slurry or sprinkle coated.

You can bond fish to meat to poultry in virtually any combination. TG needs a minimum of about 15% available protein and virtually all fish meat and poultry posses this minimum value.

We have made chicken noodles, beef noodles, glued scallops together end to end, two pieces of lamb belly on top of eachother, wrapped rainbow trout in pork belly sheets, casing-less sausages from rabbit meat, wrapped chicken around itself, turned flat iron beef into tournedos,etc.

TG really works well and yes it's actually used in amounts of 1% or less.

Have fun with it, we have.

-wd

[jackal10]

I believe that once bonded, the composite behaves like any other protein, that is you can cook it conventionally.

[culinary bear]

hey, I'm wrong already. :)

how long does it take to coalesce your pureed shrimp into malleable pasta-type material?

We made tournedos from strips of turkey breast for christmas, using a traditional farce to bind the strips - I imagine TG would be a very handy way of making the farce redundant.

Would TG bind cheese? most hard cheeses have well over 15% proteinaceous content.

Oh, glory! saltimbocca where the ham doesn't detach... *rubs hands with glee*

[Suzi Edwards]

Was this shrimp pasta dish served cold or hot?

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It wasn't piping hot. I'd say warm. Very delicious no matter how out there the science is

[jsolomon]

"left handed sugars" seemed the ultimate sugar substitute. Full bulk, identical sweetness, and undigestable according to (IIRC) a blurb in Omni Magazine a few years before.

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Many sugars that are small enough to taste sweet already undergo anomerization in solutions of water, and in the blood stream, so suddenly, your zero calorie donut (through that route) would be hoist by its own petard. Also, the shape fit tasting enzymes tend to respond to only one orientation (or respond best).

I'm curious how long the shrimp paste can be left in the piping bag before it becomes too cross-linked to behave appropriately. I can see the kinetics of piping it into boiling water, but it doesn't show the whole process, given my understanding of that nature of enzyme.

I have to agree with culinarybear that it is a rather generous use of the term "discovered". Having been in academic protein chemistry of one form or another for 3 years, I had serious questions regarding that, but semantic, nothing worth arguing on eG, IMO. Hence my suggestion of egg white.

Now that I've heard a little more about how it's done, it's a cute process. Personally I have a hard time getting excited about it because it seems like a really mixed metaphor to my aesthetic values. But, if presented it on a menu, I would try it at least once.

[646522]

You only have about 1-1.5 hrs. before the proteins crosslink into a semifirm mass. We pipe them immediately after blending with the shrimp, allow them to rest overnight them poach them the next day.

It does work with dairy, but we have been unsuccessful in attempts to create yogurt noodles, while a sheet of milk was a success. Even the folks at Ajinomoto haven't been able to help us with our mozzarella "pasta", however we have come up with an alternative approach and will be serving them soon.

[NulloModo]

Is the stuff you get from Ajinomoto the pure enzyme, or is it suspended in some sort of bulking agent? If so, do you know what the agent is?

I see some great opportunities for 100% carb-free pasta with this, so, assuming the Ajinomoto folks will sell it to the public, I am going to have to start playing around...

[nathanm]

Thanks for the information on piping etc - it will be interesting to try and make shrimp "pasta".

I have had faux-pastas of paramesan cheese done by Ferran Adria, and also by Marc Veyrat. Veyrat's version was much better - it was a bit more delicate, and instantly melted in your mouth. Adria's version was a bit stiffer - more al dente, and slighly rubbery. I assume that the difference is the gelling agent they used.

I wonder what texture the shrimp pasta tastes like.

I've eaten at WD50, but alas the shrimp pasta wasn't on the menu at the time - will have to go back! Everything else I had there was wildly inventive.

I don't see why you couldn't make rare beef "pasta" - at that point it won't look much like pasta anymore but why not....

Can't wait to get my samples of Activa....

Anything else cool like that lurking out there?

[Suzi Edwards]

I have a photo I can post tomorrow if anyone wants to see what it looks like.

This assumes I can work out how to use ImageGullet.

[nathanm]

A photo would be great...

[chefseanbrock]

the fat duck has been using activa for years, they call it meat glue and i requested samples about a year ago and never recieved them, when this thread popped up i requested another sample.........anyone know where to actually purchase it????

super cool stuff..........

wylie...........would you mind telling us about the mozz pasta??? maybe some photos???......and welcome to egullet!!

[scott123]

This is freakin awesome!!!

*rubbing my hands together* oh boy am I going to have some fun with this stuff!

Edited January 3, 2005 by scott123 (log)

[Teppy]

Talked to the people at Ajinomoto. It's expensive stuff: $75/kg, Minimum order 1 kg, and a shelf life of just 1 month if it's vacuum saved between uses and stored in a freezer.

They have several formulations - the data above is for the pure enzyme. Other formulations include one with about 1/3 milk protein and one with 1/3 gelatin.

So, I have some on the way.

I wonder if it's possible to make bread from this? Emulsify something protein based, add yeast and a little bit of sugar (tagatose for low-carb), let it rise. The difficulty might be preventing the yeast from working before the Activa has a chance to bind everything together. Both Activa and yeast work best around 100F, but according to the charts on Ajinomoto's website, Activa seems to have a broader range. So, keep the dough at a low temperature for a long time to let the Activa work, then warm it up to 100F to let the yeast work.

We really need a food science section.

[NulloModo]

Ouch, $75 for a Kg is steep, but seeing as it goes bad so fast, and many of us would probably like smaller amounts, maybe we could set up a group buy, and have someone pick up a load of the stuff, and then divy it up to lots of others who all chip in for their share (plus a little more so that th person dealing the the distribution gets something for their hassles).

[jsolomon]

Do they have any info about keeping it longer if you store it on dry ice or liquid nitrogen?

[Suzi Edwards]

Here you go, my first ever photo post and living proof of why I haven't done it before. I suck at taking photos.

I'd been calling it Shrimp Linguine in my head. I'm wondering why. It's served with smoked yoghurt and nori powder. I think (and my memory is failing me here) there is also some puffed shrimp. But am sure if I'm wrong I'll be told (I didn't take notes)

[docsconz]

Very Cool. Suzi, that is not a bad photo at all. In fact it does a super job of getting the point across and the point is this is a dish that tells me I want to have it.

[nathanm]

I was told by the Ajinomoto sales rep that shelf life is 6 months if you vacuum pack and keep in freezer.

It is $75 per kilo for one form, and $50 per kilo for another form. However, since you use much less than 1% Activa to the meat or shrimp or whatever, then this works out to be pretty cheap. 100 kilos of meat costs a lot more than $75 ....

Anyway, I have some coming, and will experiment with it. Hopefully others will too...

[chefseanbrock]

got my activa samples today and I am glueing everything in sight>>>>>>>>>>>

[nathanm]

When you know what works and what doesn't, let us know!

[chefseanbrock]

activa is the coolest thing in the world...........i can't believe how good it works.....

our first attempt was glueing beef tenderloin scraps from the chain together and you couldn't tell the difference between it and a centercut filet mignon (well, if you look hard enough you can but I fooled alot of people)

[culinary bear]

activa is the coolest thing in the world...........i can't believe how good it works.....

our first attempt was glueing beef tenderloin scraps from the chain together and you couldn't tell the difference between it and a centercut filet mignon (well, if you look hard enough you can but I fooled alot of people)

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you didn't sell it, did you?

[nathanm]

My sample isn't here yet - probably next week.

How strongly does it hold? It can't be as strong as a single piece of meat, but can you turn the composite beef tenderloin on the grill without it falling apart? When cut with a knife does it split along the "glue" joints?

[Teppy]

Ok, results of my first experiment:

This one was a failure, but I have some ideas on how to improve it.

I tried to do the shrimp noodles. Pureed a pound of shrimp in a blender along with a bit of water (just enough to make a thick paste.) Added about 1/2 teaspoon of activa to a little bit of water, and then hand-mixed that in to the shrimp paste. (Activa instructions said not to "shear" it when mixing; I assume that means not to use a blender.)

I let it sit for about an hour, periodically making little "dumplings" out of the mixture and cooking those.

The mixture got somewhat more firm, but the first problem was the dumplings had an odd spongy/watery texture - not appetizing! The second problem, when I tried to push the mixture through a cake decorating tube was that it didn't form into noodles - it just sort of sprayed pink goo all over.

I think the main problem was that the shrimp wasn't pureed nearly finely enough. I did let it blend for 2 minutes or so, but maybe something other than a blender is needed.

I also suspect I didn't use enough Activa. I think I need to be around 4.5 grams (1% of a pound), and now that I think about it, the stuff seems pretty lightweight - 1/2t of water would weigh 1.75g, and this may be lighter than water. I'll try 2t next time.

Interesting item from the package: They say not to get Activa on your skin. Makes sense I suppose - your skin is protein. I couldn't help trying to touch it and getting my fingers wet - I think I felt some stickiness and a strange sensation on my skin, but maybe I imagined that.