troubleshooting stock

[Behemoth]

Well, my 8 lbs of meaty soup bones, 16 quarts of stock is now reduced to three quarts. No, scratch that, I took one quart out to use for braising spare ribs. 15 quarts, now reduced to three -- looks nice and dark, tastes nice and meaty, but is not gelling up. It's been in the fridge for several hours now -- am I being impatient or did I do something worng? Any ideas?

[Malawry]

Tell us exactly what you did to make your stock.

Some stocks don't get noticeably gelatinous until they're way way way reduced. I bet if it's cooled completely and you wiggle it or stick your finger in it, it will be more gelatinous than you thought. But if you're looking for a demi-like texture, best to get it reducing even more.

[Behemoth]

Tell us exactly what you did to make your stock.

I basically followed eCGI through the defatting and reducing steps. My stock didn't produce a solid sheet of fat as shown in the photos. It might be that I didn't cool it down fast enough -- I had to shove it in the fridge to run some errands. But it stayed cold for while after that and seems to be fairly fat-free now. Wait, I did one stupid thing maybe -- In the initial 8 hours cooking, I had the lid on so it wasn't reducing (it was late, I was tired). I realized afterwards that this was probably a dumb thing, but I thought reducing it all later would still be okay. Could that be it? I would think the gelatine is what firms it up, so it shouldn't matter if it reduces later rather than sooner.

Some stocks don't get noticeably gelatinous until they're way way way reduced. I bet if it's cooled completely and you wiggle it or stick your finger in it, it will be more gelatinous than you thought. But if you're looking for a demi-like texture, best to get it reducing even more.

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Maybe I will poke my finger in rather than just wiggling it arund, and try to reduce it some more. Any ideas welcome. Thanks!

[Malawry]

If your stock was covered while it was cooking, it may have cooked too hot--thereby causing enough boiling action to force the fat to emulsify into the stock. Since you've reduced it, is it cloudy or glossy and clean-colored? You also may have had bones that just aren't very fatty. In culinary school we cleaned chicken backs before tossing them into the stockpot so there wouldn't be too much fat in there to skim out later. I don't bother with this step at work now--I don't mind plucking the fat off the cooled stock before freezing.

Were you using veal bones, or beef bones?

[dano1]

you used 8lb of bones for 4gal of liquid???Was this stock or water? This may be the problem.

danny

[Behemoth]

If your stock was covered while it was cooking, it may have cooked too hot--thereby causing enough boiling action to force the fat to emulsify into the stock.

Crap. Would the egg-white trick work? Or is it beyond repair? The heat was the lowest possible but eventually it must have built up quite a bit.

Since you've reduced it, is it cloudy or glossy and clean-colored? You also may have had bones that just aren't very fatty. In culinary school we cleaned chicken backs before tossing them into the stockpot so there wouldn't be too much fat in there to skim out later. I don't bother with this step at work now--I don't mind plucking the fat off the cooled stock before freezing.

Were you using veal bones, or beef bones?

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It is glossy, though I guess not "iced-tea" clear -- how clear is clear? I was using beef bones (veal seems to be practically unavailable in my part of the world).

Well, I guess I can still freeze it...it certrainly tastes great, and it certainly won't go to waste, I'm just really bummed I can't keep a cool tub of gel in my fridge.

[Behemoth]

you used 8lb of bones for 4gal of liquid???Was this stock or water? This may be the problem.

danny

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From the eCGI course:

Quantity-wise, I recommend at least 1 pound of bones-with-meat for every 2 quarts of the size of your stockpot. That is to say, if you have a 16 quart stockpot, you should use at least 8 pounds of bones-with-meat. More certainly will not hurt. Less will result in a weaker stock.

It was a 16 qt stockpot, filled water to capacity on top of the meat and veg. Seemed like a lot of meat in there...(?)

[Rachel Perlow]

You said it was in the fridge for "several hours," I'll read that as three. Not long enough to gel. Give it more time, go to sleep and check it in the morning. The late morning, sleeping late on a Sunday morning.

[Behemoth]

You said it was in the fridge for "several hours," I'll read that as three. Not long enough to gel. Give it more time, go to sleep and check it in the morning. The late morning, sleeping late on a Sunday morning.

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More like 5 hours. But I like the sleeping idea.

[scott123]

If the stock is gelled when you awaken this morning, it confirms that it wasn't cold enough after 5 hours in the fridge. If this was the case, that's a lot of hours in the bacterial 'danger zone.' Refrigerating future 3 qt. stocks in smaller/shallower containers or a water bath might help to cut that cooling time down a bit.

Edited November 15, 2004 by scott123 (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

That's a good point, Scott. How did you store the stock? Here's what I do for stock, soup, tomato sauce, chili, anything cooked up in large volume (some to eat immediately, most to put into the freezer):

• Put into container no larger than 1 quart.
  Fill the sink with lots of ice and cold water (or a large bowl if only a few containers to chill, I usually have more than 4, so I use my smaller sink)
  Put the containers into the ice water to chill.
  Only after the containers have thoroughly chilled this way do you put them into the fridge (the stock won't gel that quickly, btw, even though the ice water is colder than the fridge, that takes time as well).
  

I usually put what is to be frozen in the freezer directly from the ice water -- it is colder than the fridge. For stock, I'll usually put some into smaller containers, especially ice cube trays.

[jsolomon]

You could always make bullets out of plastic soda bottles to chill things faster.

Fill cleaned (on the outside) bottles with water leaving ~2 inches of headspace. Freeze. Place in stock that you want to chill quickly.

But, if you kept the stock covered in the same container when you took it off of the stove and placed it in the fridge, there is frightfully small chance of bacterial contamination/action.

[Behemoth]

Rachel, you patience preachin' genius, you were right, it was gelled this morning.

jsolomon, I had to pour the reduced stuff from an 8qt to a 3.5 qt pot to save room in the fridge. The smaller pot had just been used to boil something else (turnips) then rinsed out with hot water. I will definitely be more careful next time. This time, I think I may do the marine survival thing, where you eat a spoonful and wait a couple days to see whether you keel over. Considering the crazy street food I've blithely consumed in my lifetime, I will take my chances this once. Is it "getting nasty sick" bacteria, or "kill you instantly" bacteria?

[jsolomon]

Honestly, I think the stuff is perfectly safe.

I was just giving you an option if you want to be Captain Insano safe. Reducing the stock that much effectively slows bacterial growth to not have to worry about them blooming for the 4 or 5 hours it will take for the stock to chill.

Also, there is virtually no chance of botulism (the kill you instantly bacteria) because 1: there isn't enough time for it to make enough toxin, and 2: the stuff is anaerobic, and there is free oxygen with the way you stored it.

Don't worry.

[Behemoth]

Thanks -- I'm just glad I'm experimenting on friends and family (well, actually mainly myself), and not restaurant patrons

[scott123]

But, if you kept the stock covered in the same container when you took it off of the stove and placed it in the fridge, there is frightfully small chance of bacterial contamination/action.

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Let me get this straight. You reduce the stock uncovered, then cover it, let it sit to cool, and then place (still covered) in the fridge?

[deltadoc]

Another option for stock you are not going to use right away is to put a knife in clean mason or Ball jars, pour in the hot stock, and put the jars in a pressure cooker and can them. Of course, don't forget to boil your lids first before putting them and their rings on the jars!

doc

[Wine_Dad]

For safety sake, get the stock cool as soon as possible. The bullet frozen water bottle(s) is great. I go one further by filling a larger stock pot with ice water and dropping the smaller stock pot (containing stock) into this ice bath. Within the hour it's cooled down from 180 deg to about 50 deg. Freeze some in 2 cup, 4 cup and 6 cup batches and fill a couple of ice cube trays to boost sauces.

You should really go out of your way to get veal bones. They contain much more gelatin and veal has the ability to take on the essence of the meat it's being cooked with - I don't know why. A calf's foot into the mix is a great gelatin boost as well and usually freaks the kids out too.

[Mayhaw Man]

There is a great course that the eGullet Culinary Institute held last year. You should be able to find out, pretty much, more than you really need to know about stock.

[scott123]

You should really go out of your way to get veal bones.  They contain much more gelatin and veal has the ability to take on the essence of the meat it's being cooked with - I don't know why.  A calf's foot into the mix is a great gelatin boost as well and usually freaks the kids out too.

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Good point. Veal bones will create a slightly less beefy flavor, though. They are great for body. If I have a stock being used in an application where I need more of it's body component than it's flavor component, I'll up the veal content. If I can't find veal, I'll go with powdered gelatin. When dissolved, the powdered gelatin I use is almost flavorless, so it's a great way of boosting the collagen content without impairing the flavor.