Iced tea refills

boulak · October 31, 2004

OK, it's a small thing, but it really irritates me to pay for refills on iced tea, especially when coffee drinkers are getting all the coffee they can handle. Granted, I grew up in the South where pitchers of tea are placed on the table, but at $2 a glass, I expect refills when I am paying bistro prices and beyond. Most establishments seem to understand this, but I have been gouged for refills twice in the past few weeks without an announcement or a posted policy. Over the past few years, soft drinks and coffee have become a big ticket item. A family of four with four iced teas or other soft drinks and one refill each is $16. I appreciate the fact that these are businesses in business to make a profit, but the margin on soft drinks must be 90% or more. Gimme a break. The restaurant we went to tonight allowed patrons to bring their own wine for a corkage fee of $1. Can I take my thermos of iced tea in for $1? Whew! glad I got that off my chest.

suzilightning · October 31, 2004

ok-

don't know about anywhere else but recently the regular place i went to started to charge for refills on iced tea. hello- 6 tea bags and hot water for a pitcher of iced tea???? it wasn't like the hand squeezed lemonande thing but ... after 6+ years of eating there for lunch at least once a month they started charging for each glass no explanation... no nothing to the reqular customers and all the wait/bar staff have been replaced.....reigned or moved on to better jobs

if they are allowing 1.00 cockage fees and charging you 4.00 per glass on iced tea i would talk to the management about alowing a 1.00 thermos fee (who freakin' cares what is in the thermos)

now when i go out i only ask for water and not bottled....

nwyles · October 31, 2004

Ok , I hear what you are saying. As I am in Canada, lemonade and iced tea refills are not a big deal, we don't move it like you do in the Southern U.S.A.

Here is my thing that I just want to get off of my chest -

" would you like a coffee ? "

"no thanks , could I have a cup of hot water with lemon ?" ( traditionally no charge )

Here is the thing. This is what it takes to get that.

Teapot ( we would always serve the hot water in a teapot )

2 lemon wedges ( one seems stingy )

2 side plates - 1 under teapot , one for lemon

spoon

2 paper napkins

sugar

I have never worked in a place that charged for this but it is quite a lot of work if you have a full section with lots of running around.

As there is no charge , people would forget to tip on that, there is a cost to the restaurant and if this is what they are drinking , you can bet they are not drinking anything else.

Suggestion on the lemonade - serve a really big glass of it and that should do away with any refill angst. I would not have a problem paying for a refill if it was really big :biggrin:

Gifted Gourmet · October 31, 2004

Outrageous! :angry: Charging for water really ... the South understands a person's thirst is not quenched the first time around ... :rolleyes:

nwyles · October 31, 2004

Outrageous! Charging for water really ... the South understands a person's thirst is not quenched the first time around ...
←

Sir , methinks you are mocking me. :raz:

As I said , there is never a charge for it , just lots of work. And while I'm at it , the people who would ask for such a thing are the type to split a small house salad , one half with no dressing , a different dressing on the side and the other person want theirs with extra dressing , they stay all lunch hour, hang around at least one hour after the place has closed for lunch, getting refills of hot water and argue over who is going to pay for the six dollar lunch. :biggrin:

Gifted Gourmet · October 31, 2004

Outrageous! Charging for water really ... the South understands a person's thirst is not quenched the first time around ...
←
Sir , methinks you are mocking me.
←

Not at all .. just pointing out that in the South, we know people are thirsty and don't charge them for natural bodily functions! :laugh:

Not a sir but, may God forgive me for this, a Madam ... not that kind either!! :hmmm:

boulak · October 31, 2004

Outrageous! Charging for water really ... the South understands a person's thirst is not quenched the first time around ...
←
Sir , methinks you are mocking me.
←
Not at all .. just pointing out that in the South, we know people are thirsty and don't charge them for natural bodily functions!
Not a sir but, may God forgive me for this, a Madam ... not that kind either!!
←

Actually, not only are we thirsty, but we need the free refills to take our expensive prescription drugs down here.

Gifted Gourmet: I am convinced that you are a true southern lady, but as I look at your email address, I would have to say that you are also a goodman melissa.

Seriously, there a lot of fair minded patrons who enjoy going to restaurants and paying a fair price comparable to value and who appreciate good service and reward the server accordingly, but...............$2 for a REFILL of iced tea that does not require any of the extra work that you mentioned nwyles? And I'm talking US dollars>

boulak · October 31, 2004

Oops, I just came across the thread for hidden restaurant extras and want to apologize for starting an identical thread. Rookie mistake.

TheFoodTutor · October 31, 2004

"no thanks , could I have a cup of hot water with lemon ?" ( traditionally no charge )
Here is the thing. This is what it takes to get that.
Teapot ( we would always serve the hot water in a teapot )
2 lemon wedges ( one seems stingy )
2 side plates - 1 under teapot , one for lemon
spoon
2 paper napkins
sugar
I have never worked in a place that charged for this but it is quite a lot of work if you have a full section with lots of running around.
As there is no charge , people would forget to tip on that,

Oh my god! Have you been reading my mind or something?

Hot water with lemon is a guaranteed huge amount of work with nothing added to the check, and the sorts of people who order it are definitely not going to tip any amount on anything for which you don't charge. At the restaurant where I currently work, while it doesn't happen often, if I have two ladies who order hot water with lemon, that means I must make two trips to the table just to process their uncharged beverage orders without being able to provide beverages to the rest of the table!

Never, ever, ever have I seen people tip on this uncharged expense to the restaurant, plus the amount of work the server must do. In fact, an order of hot water with lemon, if it comes from the person who's paying the tab, almost guarantees that you'll get, at the most, a 12% tip for exemplary service, above and beyond the normal call of duty. 12% on the tab charged, of course, not including running to get them more hot water and lemons for their free beverage.

If it's just a matter of someone living in the hot, hot South and being thirsty, I'll provide all the water you want to quench your thirst. We even provide free filtered water at the restaurant where I work, poured chilled from the filtering mechanism in chilled glasses. So it's really not a matter of people being thirsty because it's hot, especially if they're ordering hot water with lemon in the middle of a Georgia July.

Actually, I really don't get it at all. If someone would explain the whole "ordering hot water with lemon while it's 110 degrees outside" phenomenon, I'd be really, really glad to hear it.

nwyles · October 31, 2004

Dear Mr. Tutor,

It was not about hot water in Southern climates as I stated in my first post that this is a parallel beef that I have in CANADA ( sometimes having a slightly cooler climate ). I mearly stated that I thought that this was a pain for no $$, like the original " free refill " complaint

We are on the same page though , there is a certain type of person that orders that and there is never a reflection in the gratuity for humping all that extra stuff around the dining room. For me , it happens when the last lemon has been used and I have to run to the kitchen to get some more, I look to see that the honey is crystalized, someone spilled coffee on the stack of napkins by the coffee station and there are no sideplates to serve this on, and the cup has a coffe ring stain on it. Holy CRAP , the top of my head just about comes off :angry:

I love people who order coffee.

" How do you like that ?"

" Black , please "

:biggrin:

glenn · October 31, 2004

How do you know if people aren't tipping on hot water?

=Mark · October 31, 2004

I've noticed a steady increase in tip requests at establishments that did not useed to expect them. Dunkin' Donuts is a prime example. A few years back the paper cup with the tag "Tips" taped to them appeard on the counter. A few months back the practice seemed to gain institutional approval as in all my local Dunkin' Donuts shops started sporting identical glazed ceramic mugs emblazoned with "Tips for Exceptional Service!" slogans at the counter and the drive-up. Wonder if the parent company is encouraging this to supplant actual wage increases...

And no, you don't get free refills. :hmmm:

Edited for speeling.

Edited October 31, 2004 by =Mark (log)

boulak · October 31, 2004

If the dialogue is going to turn to tips, I would say that quite often it seems that a server initially sizes up the patron and determines what percentage said patron is going to tip. The service then reflects that pre-determination. If you would worry about the service instead of the tip, the tips would flow. I realize that this is a generality and that there are exceptions. But retailers have an expression called "income averaging." Maybe servers should too. When servers view their jobs as a profession rather than a job, patrons take notice and tip accordingly. Tip jars are a real can of worms. I saw one in an employee cafeteria in a resort where I worked. Workers asking co-workers for a tip for doing their job. Or the one that I saw that said "For colledge" (sic) at an ice cream counter. A tip on a $3 scoop of ice cream? Do the people working in these positions tip when they line up for small ticket items? It seems to be a part of our culture now that we are not only expected to tip, but we are glad to do so simply for manners, a friendly smile, and a thank you. Oh, Bob Dylan, you were right in more ways than I knew.

I'll say it again. I want my iced tea. And I want a refill. And it is no more trouble than pouring another glass of water for the server. And with all of the money I am spending in restaurants, it is not a drain on the proprietor's profits. I have never seen anyone charged when more bread has been delivered to the table whether requested or not. How is iced tea so radically different?

Shelley G. · October 31, 2004

I don't charge for one iced tea or lemonade refill, but have started charging $1.00 for hot water and lemon. There were too many people enjoying the benefit of our full tea service, and not paying for it. The labour involved in providing the bone china cup and teapot with tea cosy etc, is definitely a cost to the restaurant.

TheFoodTutor · October 31, 2004

If the dialogue is going to turn to tips, I would say that quite often it seems that a server initially sizes up the patron and determines what percentage said patron is going to tip. The service then reflects that pre-determination. If you would worry about the service instead of the tip, the tips would flow.

Unfortunately, while that seems like a nice idea, it isn't really true. Most of the servers with whom I work are very, very professional, they treat every table exactly the same (with perhaps the exception of the regular who comes in every day and gets his iced tea delivered before he sits down) and we provide consistently good service to everyone. But let me tell you, about the umpteenth time you've heard someone say, "Thank you so much for the excellent service!" "Wow! You're the best waitress, ever!" "Service was superb! Let me drop a note to the manager." at the same time as the person is handing you a tip that is just under 10% of their bill, which does not reflect their water with lemon, hot water with lemon, or the lemonade they made at their table with their sugar caddy, then you know it's them and not you.

Really, try waiting tables for a while and you will see.

As far as tip jars at counters, I really don't like this practice any more than anyone else does. I see no reason to drag fast food workers into the classification of tipped profession, since we already have enough people working for tips. In my opinion, it's really not the best way to pay people for their work.

As far as free refills on any type of beverage other than water, I really don't see what the point is. Generally, when I eat in restaurants, I'm drinking beer or wine anyway. On the rare occasion that I have a soda or another beverage, I'm fine with just one. If I'm really thirsty, I can drink water. But if free refills on non-alcoholic beverages is something that's important to you, I'd recommend that you patronize establishments that provide them and avoid those that don't. In my experience, this is the decision of the owner of the business, and I'm sure they'll notice if people start staying away in droves because of the lack of free refills.

Carrot Top · October 31, 2004

Dear Mr. Tutor,
←

Mr. Tutor is a she, by the way. :biggrin:

irodguy · October 31, 2004

Free drink refills are a distinctly southern thing.

On the west coast it's hit an miss for instance. May places charge for drink refills.

On the east coast it seems that I was always charged for soft drink refills but tea was hit or miss.

There is no question that it's extra work for the server. There is also no question that this is frequently a basis for the tip.

I ate lunch Friday at a restaurant that a friend of mine owns. There was a new server there so I played dumb, did not go hang out in the kitchen or anything. The server was quite slow with the Tea :sad: It was amazing how things changed when my friends sister came to my table and sat and bs'ed for a while.

I ended up giving a good tip (bordering on great), and quietly told them they might want have a little talk with the new server.

TheFoodTutor · October 31, 2004

Dear Mr. Tutor,
←
Mr. Tutor is a she, by the way.
←

Thanks for clearing that up. :smile:

There is no question that it's extra work for the server. There is also no question that this is frequently a basis for the tip.

This is one thing that I've found a little problematic. I have worked in places that charge for refills on coke, and I currently work in a place that does not charge for refills. I've observed lots and lots of customers and am very, very familiar with a wide range of tipping habits - I work in a very busy restaurant - and this is almost universally the behavior I see:

For 1 beverage with 4 refills in the place that charges $2 each time, tab = $10 and tip on that portion of the tab = $2 (if the person is a 20% tipper.)

For 1 beverage with 4 refills in a place that doesn't charge for refills, tab = $2 and tip on that portion of the tab = 40 cents (if the person is a 20% tipper.)

Both tables were exactly the same amount of work, but one tip is significantly higher. I'm not giving an opinion on this, and it really doesn't matter if I do, because that's simply the way people behave. People tip on what appears on the bill, end of story.

boulak · October 31, 2004

OK, I guess it is just me. But I will say this; I have worked in the business for many years, and believe in generous tipping for professional, courteous service. I would much rather leave a restaurant feeling good about the experience and compensate the server accordingly. I empathize with many of the comments from owners and servers, but every diner is not out to beat the system. As far as patronizing establishments that do not charge for a refill, I feel that that is the crux of the thread. How would I know? I guess I could ask, but remember that a proprietor is a host and in the hospitality business.

Food Tutor: I will admit that I never considered the difference in the tip on four glasses of tea as you illustrated. That is a good point, I am glad that you made it,and I concede that point. But again, it seems as if the first concern is the tip and not the service. What about extra butter, sour cream, salsa, etc. that I never ask for? I am just looking for consistency.

There are a lot of great comments here and I appreciate hearing the other side. Thanks.

kellycolorado · November 1, 2004

Is this common, hot water with lemon? I've never seen it, except for hearing of a few spendthrifty women who were going to bring their own teabags. :shock: Do people drink it at home too or just to save $$ when dining out? Things that make you go hmm...

Back to the original topic, it bothers me too getting charged for ice tea refills, *especially* when the tea is so weak as to be colored water. (One of my pet peeves)

joiei · November 1, 2004

If I am paying $2.00 for each glass of iced tea, then my consumption will drop dramatically. And if I am not forewarned of the charge , either on the menu (and not in small type) or by the server, then I will be pissed and deduct from the tip that I leave. A precedent has been set in the south and to veer from that long established service, it needs to be brought to the customers attention. I do understand from the waiters point of view about the extra work, but isn't that a part of the service that you sell, to take care of the customer.

As for the non tip on the lemon water, think of it this way. That old lady could possibly be your Grandma. If it is not being grossly abused, just take care of her. Sometimes we do things in life just because. Consider it part of your charity.

If it is being abused, then just charge for the water and get on with life. You will probably lose that person as a customer, but there are others to take their place, right?

mb7o · November 1, 2004

The point is that iced tea refills are no more work than water refills in many places--it comes out of a big plastic pitcher. And the food costs aren't high. Sometimes both pitchers are carried at once.

If it's made fresh every time or something, sure, charge for it. And definately for the hot water if it's a frequent request, again it's something which has to be made up.

Then again, I don't drink iced tea or soft drinks. But will easily go through a pot of hot tea at a chinese restaurant.

But as for the tip on total argument, yes, that's the American system. Part of what's strange about tips. Is the service for serving 4 $2.00 iced teas worth four times a $2.00 iced tea with 3 free refills? Is the service on a $100 bottle of wine worth three times more than the service on a $30 bottle of wine?

nwyles · November 1, 2004

Is this common, hot water with lemon? I've never seen it, except for hearing of a few spendthrifty women who were going to bring their own teabags.

In my neck of the woods it is.

I am sorry that I got this off topic so early on this hot water tangent.

It just happened to be a pet peeve and happened very recently.

I do not know what about this that really bugs me - the work for no pay - for either the restaurant or the server or the presumption that people would do this.

Think of this.

"Can I have some water please ? "

" Yes "

" A large pitcher please .

"Certainly "

" Do you have any lemons "

" But of course "

This person then proceeds to squeeze the lemons in the pitcher of water, empties all your sugar packages from the sugar caddy in the water.

They then ask for a straw.

What do you do ?

It is just water and some condiments from your bar garnish tray. They know that and so do you.

Is it as good as perhaps some nice fresh lemonade ? Not really but it is free.

Is hot water with lemon and sugar as good as a nice cup of tea ? Not really but it is free.

We are in the hospitality industry and some people have learned how to play that.

Are we going to change that ? I don't think so as we truly care about people and making them happy. This seems petty, does it not ? It does , but no one likes to be taken advantage of.

TheFoodTutor · November 1, 2004

But again, it seems as if the first concern is the tip and not the service.

Well, in my case, I don't really worry about tips a heck of a lot, and that's really the truth. I wait tables, sure, but I also own my own business, I end up being employed for various other types of jobs, in a consulting position, and my boyfriend works 2 jobs as well on top of helping me run the business. I have money in the bank and I can afford to take a few days off for myself, and I deserve to, since I work a good bit.

I observe people's tipping habits, and combined with their general behavior in restaurants, I look at it as a study in psychology and social interaction. So when I got a tip of $3 on a $57 tab yesterday, which was surprising to me, because the woman seemed to have good taste, I registered it with some amusement but it ultimately made little difference. I still walked with $200 for the day, so who cares?

So I can assure you that no one's service suffers because I've predicted that I'll get a lousy tip. But I can also assure you that I've got a really cool database of tipping behaviors stored in my grey matter.

As far as the refills are concerned, aside from the interesting difference in the tip on free refills vs. refills that are charged, it is very true that people will drink far fewer cokes when they are charged for each one. Some people seem to make a game of sucking down cokes as quickly as they can when they know refills are free, and I don't think this is really a good thing. Drinking that much soda is not healthy for you, even if you're drinking diet soda, and if it's not diet, it can add a heck of a lot of calories to a meal. Also, I don't think it's right for people to think only of the "free" refill, without acknowledging that it really isn't "free" for the server. She's paying for it in wear and tear on her shoe leather.

joiei, what if the person ordering lemon water isn't a little old lady, but it's the mean guy in the cubicle next to you who always steals your office supplies and takes credit for your projects? Should I give him charity, too? In fact, why should servers be obliged to give charity more than someone in any other profession?

At any rate, the people to whom I serve lemon water are rarely old ladies. At least not in my neck of the woods.

kiliki · November 1, 2004

Free drink refills are a distinctly southern thing.
On the west coast it's hit an miss for instance. May places charge for drink refills.

I've lived in the Pacific Northwest my entire life and have never paid for a drink refill (and I am an iced tea fiend). My pet peeve about iced tea is that so many places here make a fruity (usually peach) flavored tea and then serve that without telling you that you are not getting the regular, plain iced tea you thought you were ordering. It's just gross.

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