wd-50 2004 - 2007

[Pan]

If we had to actually purchase artwork in order to experience it, there would be a much smaller audience for it. Aren't we lucky it's much cheaper to have a meal than to buy a painting or sculpture?

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This comment is interesting in light of something Michael Kimmelman (I think) wrote in the Times on Friday (I think). He quoted a visual artist to the effect that painting has changed significantly owing to the fact that artists frequently paint now with the expectation that their work will end up in a museum rather than a private collection. Accordingly, the visual artist said, they frequently go for a quick effect rather than something deeper or more subtle; they don't paint as if the work will be lived with.[...]

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I would like to disassociate myself from this idea. It's foolish for artists to believe that pieces exhibited in museums aren't lived with, or try for quick effects instead of actual content that changes and deepens as you move your eyes around it -- that is, unless you are trying to appeal only to those who are ignorant or uneducated about art (the McDonalds of artists??). Nor do I think Warhol ennobled those Campbell's soup cans, etc. If and when I go to WD-50, if I think of Warhol while eating anything, I'll know it failed. And thereby, we see the limits to the utility of overly specific analogies between food by specific chefs and art by specific artists. If you like Warhol, you think that comparing someone's food to his work is a compliment; if you think Warhol's work was mere self-promoting crap that successfully tapped into a Zeitgeist of a moment, comparing someone's food to that work is damning.

In terms of conceptual art, as far as I'm concerned, the whole idea is that one is being asked to judge it as a concept, not as art that should do something artistic when you look at it. If you do that with food, it won't work because, as was pointed out upthread, food has to taste good for people to accept it. However, if you have an interesting food concept and do it deliciously, more power to you! Similarly, I have no problem with art that includes an interesting concept, as long as it also works on some artistic level. If it's only a concept, write a manifesto or ad copy or something.

Gee, I sound cranky, don't I? Well, I'm a musician and my father's a painter, so what do you expect?

Carry on.

[Pork Neck]

Heading to WD-50 with a group of 8 next weekend-I've read on the thread that groups have received two separate tasting menus in a "2X2" format, as at FL or Per Se.

The reservationist i spoke to said that such an arrangement wasnt possible-is this just available to VIP's? If not, any suggestions on how to proceed?

Essentially, we'd like to enjoy the tasting format(w wine pairings) but sample more than 9-10 dishes, as we have such a large party...thanks

[docsconz]

Alex Talbot aka twodogs has posted a must read article on WD-50 in his and his wife's blog ideas in food.. The article discusses what makes Wylie's and Sam's cuisine great, but also why the experience can be uneven at times.

I returned to my seat to enjoy my habanero cocktail and the meal began.  We started with a piece of tuna with powdered coconut, green mango puree and bell peppers.  Tasty.  I will write the whole menu in a separate presentation.  We saw, tasted and experienced an array of dishes, only a few of which were on any written menu.  The meal progressed and we were laughing and truly enjoying ourselves.  We were there it seemed to enjoy our time and completely erase the experience of our prior meal.  And we did just that.  The only hiccup of the evening was that two thirds through the meal our service slowed.  The kitchen faced an onslaught of orders and because of this the previous routine of getting a new dish every ten minutes slowed to twenty minute gaps.  Is this a huge issue?  Depends who you are and what is going on.  We were in Wylie's hands and happily relaxed with our wine.  But I mention this for several reasons.  Wylie still works a station every night in the kitchen.  That means he is both cooking and overseeing the entire dining rooms food from the the thick of the kitchen.  That means when you eat at wd-50 Wylie is cooking your food.  That means that when the kitchen is knee deep in orders trying to make the food perfect the chef is not only overseeing but cooking it as well.  Aki and I have been in small restaurants where we cook everything.  That is because we have been in remote locations in intimate settings, not New York City cooking for 90 to 120 people each evening.  I had time as our meal evolved to wonder if the food and entire experience at wd-50 would be elevated to a new level if Wylie gave up the reigns of a station and created one of his own where he could finalize everything, no questions asked.

I have been fortunate that WD-50 has been consistently excellent whenever I have dined there. As these boards will attest, although vastly positive, the occassional story of disatisfaction does pop up now and again. The direct interaction between Wylie, Sam and their food is one of the things I truly love about WD-50. Perhaps the kitchen might run smoother and a little more consistently if Wylie were simply the overseer, but it might also lose some of the personality that makes it so special to me. I love the fact that Wylie and Sam are directly involved in cooking my meal. That I have not had a less than wonderful experience there may color my perception on this topic.

[ulterior epicure]

But I mention this for several reasons.  Wylie still works a station every night in the kitchen.  That means he is both cooking and overseeing the entire dining rooms food from the the thick of the kitchen.  That means when you eat at wd-50 Wylie is cooking your food.  That means that when the kitchen is knee deep in orders trying to make the food perfect the chef is not only overseeing but cooking it as well.

Not quite true for everyday. Alas, he was not in the night I ate.... Edited April 17, 2006 by ulterior epicure (log)

[rich]

But I mention this for several reasons.  Wylie still works a station every night in the kitchen.  That means he is both cooking and overseeing the entire dining rooms food from the the thick of the kitchen.  That means when you eat at wd-50 Wylie is cooking your food.  That means that when the kitchen is knee deep in orders trying to make the food perfect the chef is not only overseeing but cooking it as well.

Not quite true for everyday. Alas, he was not in the night I ate....

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Normally, I would say it doesn't matter who's in the kitchen. But I think WD-50 is the exception that proves the rule. Wylie's food is so unique, I think it demands him being there for the full experience. I could understand how his absence would affect the food more than a Batali, Ducasse or Keller for example.

[oakapple]

Normally, I would say it doesn't matter who's in the kitchen. But I think WD-50 is the exception that proves the rule. Wylie's food is so unique, I think it demands him being there for the full experience.

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We should be careful to distinguish the concept of the restaurant from the execution of specific dishes. The concept, without question, is Wylie's, and it is so different from anyone else's that one cannot imagine WD-50 without him.

But on individual evenings, naturally he is not always there. I believe it was mentioned upthread that he takes every Sunday off. I'm sure Wylie would tell you, with hand on heart, that he believes his vision is being executed properly on those evenings. And if it isn't, the restaurant shouldn't be open.

Even for so eccentric a restaurant as WD-50, the chef is an incompetent manager if he can't even take a single night off without adversely affecting what is produced.

[ulterior epicure]

But on individual evenings, naturally he is not always there. I believe it was mentioned upthread that he takes every Sunday off. I'm sure Wylie would tell you, with hand on heart, that he believes his vision is being executed properly on those evenings. And if it isn't, the restaurant shouldn't be open.

As I had posted, I suspect that my disappointment with WD-50 had nothing to do with execution. Rather, my objections/disagreements were endemic to the concepts and combinations that Wylie/WD-50 is producing... the execution, I have no doubt, was flawless.

u.e.

[rich]

Even for so eccentric a restaurant as WD-50, the chef is an incompetent manager if he can't even take a single night off without adversely affecting what is produced.

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Not in entire disagreement with that, but I think WD-50's kitchen needs him more than the others I mentioned above.

Maybe I'll try to eat there on a Sunday.

[freshherbs]

Even for so eccentric a restaurant as WD-50, the chef is an incompetent manager if he can't even take a single night off without adversely affecting what is produced.

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Not in entire disagreement with that, but I think WD-50's kitchen needs him more than the others I mentioned above.

Maybe I'll try to eat there on a Sunday.

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being a people manager and a good chef have overlapping similarities but are mostly different skill sets, no? a truly great chef must run a tight, cosnistent kitchen...but a truly inventive chef must only be, well, truly inventive.

at the very least, i would say that the knowledge and professionalism of the wait staff speaks to chef dufresne's management. my own experience there has been quite consistent in execution...just not always to my taste.

i would also agree with rich that his kitchen needs him more than others considering a) the amount of turnover in the industry and b) the complexity/novelty of the processes.

all that being said, i can think of no two people who i would rather learn from/observe/eat from than chefs dufresne and mason. i'll give up a little managerial skill for a bit of rock and roll any day

[ppace]

I posted awhile back about my pregnant wife and if it would be possible for me to do the tasting menu and her ala carte to minimize any complications with her pregnancy diet. As we are "running out of time" for at least while (less than 30 days to go) We have a reservation for Thurs. We were told we could not have one do the tasting menu. My wife explained she was preganant and they asked what she could and could not eat (some items seemed to be a rundown from the tasting menu Foie for example) They said they would make substitutions for those items on her courses. Which is great. But I'm still a little anxious and I think she might have been happy choosing going vegetarian ala carte as her meal. I think she may ask again tomorrow when we confirm.

[docsconz]

Even for so eccentric a restaurant as WD-50, the chef is an incompetent manager if he can't even take a single night off without adversely affecting what is produced.

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Not in entire disagreement with that, but I think WD-50's kitchen needs him more than the others I mentioned above.

Maybe I'll try to eat there on a Sunday.

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I'm not sure that I agree. I think that while Wylie does his share on the line his staff is very highly attuned to the cuisine and its technical nature. What Wylie and Sam both add is their presence and personality, something that I particularly enjoy above and beyond their food. Because they are both so visible when they are there, I think it adds to the enjoyment for people such as myself when they are in fact present as they usually are. I highly doubt, however, that the technical aspects of the meal would be significantly different in the absence of either or both. I think the fact that the presence or absence of either of them on any given night is so obvious (I should not exclude Dewey either as his personality also adds alot to the restaurant experience) by virtue of the visibility of the kitchen is both a virtue and a curse without the quality of the food necessarily differing at all. A lot of people simply enjoy knowing that the chef is in the kitchen on any given night. They find it reassuring whether or not it makes any tangible difference. That is easy to ascertain at WD-50.

Conversely there may be a small element of disappointment to some diners when they are not there especially if they may not have been aware of the case before hand.

[docsconz]

But on individual evenings, naturally he is not always there. I believe it was mentioned upthread that he takes every Sunday off. I'm sure Wylie would tell you, with hand on heart, that he believes his vision is being executed properly on those evenings. And if it isn't, the restaurant shouldn't be open.

As I had posted, I suspect that my disappointment with WD-50 had nothing to do with execution. Rather, my objections/disagreements were endemic to the concepts and combinations that Wylie/WD-50 is producing... the execution, I have no doubt, was flawless.

u.e.

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I think this may be an area where we can pinpoint some of the discrepancies in our views towards specific restaurants. A lot of the combinations at WD-50 that you were less than fully enthusiastic about are really classic flavor combinations that are just presented in a novel fashion. In a case like the tongue and mayo, the dish really isn't breaking any new ground in terms of flavor. It is the technique and presentation that give life and inject fun and novelty into this dish as well as others on the menu. While I find the flavor combinations in these dishes enjoyable, it is the inventiveness, fun and whimsy that elevates them in my book. The other side of the inventiveness coin is a dish like the sunny-side egg that takes a very familiar form that ultimately defies its convention and turns out to be something marvelous but completely different than its initial appearance would have had us believe it to be. If the new flavors were not enjoyable in their own right the trickery and whimsy would have been for naught. That they ere new and pleasurable is what elevates the dish to its position as something special in my book. But Wylie and his crew do more than these tricks. In addition to playing with our sense of the familiar they also provide us with totally new and unique combinations that make both our tastebuds and minds delight and wonder, "how did they think of that?!" Does this happen with every dish? I don't know any place that can say that every dish works 100% for every diner. For me though it has been extremely rare that a dish hasn't worked for me on some if not many levels at WD-50.

[ulterior epicure]

I think this may be an area where we can pinpoint some of the discrepancies in our views towards specific restaurants. A lot of the combinations at WD-50 that you were less than fully enthusiastic about are really classic flavor combinations that are just presented in a novel fashion. In a case like the tongue and mayo, the dish really isn't breaking any new ground in terms of flavor. It is the technique and presentation that give life and inject fun and novelty into this dish as well as others on the menu. While I find the flavor combinations in these dishes enjoyable, it is the inventiveness, fun and whimsy that elevates them in my book.

Edited April 18, 2006 by ulterior epicure (log)

[Sneakeater]

I wonder -- this is not a rhetorical question -- whether anyone has really liked WD-50 on their first visit?

Maybe you, docsconz?

[vivin]

I wonder -- this is not a rhetorical question -- whether anyone has really liked WD-50 on their first visit?

I went there a couple of weeks after they opened. I liked it. I talked to Wylie in the kitchen and told him that he had created something special. The meals got better BUT I have been doing tasting menus since then. The first time was a la carte.

[rich]

I thoroughly enjoyed it the first time. But since I'm not allowed to post anymore, please ignore this. Thank you.

[Sneakeater]

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

[docsconz]

I wonder -- this is not a rhetorical question -- whether anyone has really liked WD-50 on their first visit?

Maybe you, docsconz?

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First time and every time. The people I have been with as well.

[ulterior epicure]

time. The people I have been with as well.

Awwwww.... so that's the way into doc's heart... be present when he's eating Wylie's food!

doc, when's your next visit?

u.e.

[docsconz]

time. The people I have been with as well.

Awwwww.... so that's the way into doc's heart... be present when he's eating Wylie's food!

doc, when's your next visit?

u.e.

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One will have to have already made one's way into my heart to be present when I am eating Wylie's food

[ulterior epicure]

One will have to have already made one's way into my heart to be present when I am eating Wylie's food

Clever.

... so, am I invited next time?

u.e.

[docsconz]

U.E. One of the things that keeps the world interesting is that different people are in fact different with different tastes. Our tastes appear to overlap in some cases and not in others. I was trying to explain above what it is that appeals to me so much about this restaurant, realizing that your take was different. WD-50 and Alinea are two restaurants that are amongst my absolute favorites that you have been less enamored with. Perhaps if I were you I would take my recommendations with a grain of salt

[ulterior epicure]

U.E.  One of the things that keeps the world interesting is that different people are in fact different with different tastes. Our tastes appear to overlap in some cases and not in others.  I was trying to explain above what it is that appeals to me so much about this restaurant, realizing that your take was different. WD-50 and Alinea are two restaurants that are amongst my absolute favorites that you have been less enamored with. Perhaps if I were you I would take my recommendations with a grain of salt

No, I know a sophisticated, appreciative eater when I read one... you're definitely one of them.

Not to belabour my love-fest for the doc, I truly do appreciate your comments. You're right in saying that this world is interesting because of the different ways in which we approach eating. I just really really wish I could appreciate Alinea and WD-50 the way you do... but my stubborn tastebuds just won't budge!

Truly, I do expect to return to WD-50 someday. I really think that with so many people like yourself lovin' it that I owe it to myself, and eGullters like you, to give it another chance.

u.e.

[edited to correct some pretty egregious grammatical nonsense, er, something like that...]

Edited April 19, 2006 by ulterior epicure (log)

[docsconz]

U.E.  One of the things that keeps the world interesting is that different people are in fact different with different tastes. Our tastes appear to overlap in some cases and not in others.  I was trying to explain above what it is that appeals to me so much about this restaurant, realizing that your take was different. WD-50 and Alinea are two restaurants that are amongst my absolute favorites that you have been less enamored with. Perhaps if I were you I would take my recommendations with a grain of salt

No, I know a sophisticated, appreciative eater when I read one... you're definitely one of them.

Not to belabour my love-fest for the doc, I truly do appreciate your comments. You're right in saying that this world is interesting is the different ways in which we approach them. I just really really wish I could appreciate Alinea and WD-50 the way you do... but my stubborn tastebuds just won't budge!

Truly, I do expect to return to WD-50 someday. I really think that with so many people like yourself lovin' it that I owe it to myself, and eGullters like you, to give it another chance.

u.e.

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Thanks, u.e., but you certainly don't owe anything to me. I post on eGullet because I enjoy doing it. I enjoy having a medium with which I can both express my culinary passion and share in others'. If my posts should be informative or (hopefully) consistent enough in expressing my tastes so that someone else may have a benchmark whether in agreement or disagreement so much the better.

[ulterior epicure]

If my posts should be informative  or (hopefully) consistent enough in expressing my tastes so that someone else may have a benchmark whether in agreement or disagreement so much the better.

In this you've succeeded!

Thanks doc!

u.e.