Café Gray - Closed Now, But 2009...

[Bicycle Lee]

a cook I work with just went and he said while the food was good, the front o fthe house seemed very disorganized...I mean, a course was dropped off at the table with no verbal on what it was or how it was prepared...When you're paying good money for a tasting menu, I think that sort of thing should be standard IMO.

[R Washburn]

a cook I work with just went and he said while the food was good, the front o fthe house seemed very disorganized...I mean, a course was dropped off at the table with no verbal on what it was or how it was prepared...When you're paying good money for a tasting menu, I think that sort of thing should be standard IMO.

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Tasting menu? All I saw was a 3-course a la carte, plus amuse bouche, petit fours and the occasional comp (red bass with lavender and honey foam or pasta with white truffles).

We didn't experience any service problems last night, although I am sure there are some problems.

[Fat Guy]

Would love to hear more about your meal, Robert.

[coughy]

I called early this morning and was shocked to have gotten a reservation for the day and time I wanted. Can't wait to go because I was such a big fan of Lespinasse.

[johnder]

My wife and I had dinner there this past Wednesday for an 8pm slot. We arrived a few minutes early and had some cocktails at the bar. The bar was pretty full, mostly with people eating at the tables surrounding the bar area. The bar itself is very dark, with most of the light coming from a strip light below the bar. We ended up having to hold the cocktail menu under the bar to read it. Between the font they chose and the lighting it was quite the task to pick a drink.

We ended up having a Kaffir Mojito and the Cafe Grey Sidecar. Both very delicious.

We got got seated in the main dining room along the long banquet looking out over the kitchen and the park. One of the first things we noticed is the amount of service staff around. It really was a flurry of activity, between the buspeople, waitstaff, wine stewards, floor managers it was like grand central station.

After looking over the menu we decided to get 3 starters, one each, and one to split, along with two entrees.

Appetizers:

Her: Wild Mushroom Risotta

Me: Vegetable Ragout

Share: Cafe Grey Jicima Salad

Entrees:

Her: Salted Cod and Langostine

Me: Braised Short Ribs w/ Grits

Desert:

Her: Carmelized Pear with Olives (!)

Me: Cheese Course

Turns out after we ordered, the 4-top next to us asked our waiter if there was a tasting-menu and must to our surprise (and disappointment-- considering we just ordered) there was. It was a 7 course menu at $125.00 that changes on the chefs whim. So if you are going to CG soon, be sure to ask them for the tasting menu if you want it.

Overall the dishes were pretty good. The Risiotto was fantastic, as was the Ribs and Cod/Langoustine. The Ragout and Jicama were good -- nothing I would seek out and order again. The ragout was a selection of seasonal vegetables topped with a crispy spiced filo-like tangine cover.

The Jicama salad was batonnets of Jicima and Crispy noodle like pieces in a yogurt and tarragon dressing. We couldn't quite make out the spices, but there was definitely a hint of sesame oil in it.

The cheese course was excellent, a selection of 5 cheeses, with some quince paste, fig cake and a very bizarre shredded-spiced pear relish. As much as I tried, I couldn't find a cheese on the plate that worked with the pear relish.

The winner of the evening was the Carmalized Pear that was served with w Fromage Blanc ice cream and candied olives. It sounds bizarre but it was amazing. The brine/saltiness of the lives played excellent off the caramel poached pair, bringing back memories of fantastic salted caramel squares I used to have as a kid.

Service wise -- they need help. Even though they had service people everywhere, it was really easy as diners to be overlooked. We ordered a bottle of white to go with the first few courses and a glass of red (the Shiraz) for my ribs at the start of the meal. When they brought our entrees, they forgot my red. We ended up asking 3 people for my glass of wine and only after 10 minutes did it show up.

The one outstandnig service person there was out busman. He was very astute, always filling our water glasses, checking the bread and butter. He was one of the best, most attentive bus-people we have ever dealt with -- the only person there who was really on top of the game.

Overall I would have to say:

Food: Above average, it can be great if you stick to "his" dishes.

Sound level: is on the loud side. Especially if you are in the center of the room.

Service: lets just say it needs improvement.

Wine Service: Great. The brought the Sommelier over from Danube. Her really knows his Austrian wines.

Price: 3 appetizers, 2 entrees, 1 bottle wine ($64), 2 glasses wine, 2 cocktails, 2 deserts: $280 not including tip.

[Fat Guy]

Before the sommelier, Alexander Adlgasser, was at Danube (and several other places) he was at Lespinasse under Kunz.

In addition to Alex's presence, there are a number of instances of overlap between Cafe Gray and Lespinasse: a few dishes, the pastry chef Chris Broberg, a number of other staff, and of course Gray Kunz himself. Cafe Gray, however, is not Lespinasse. This will be Gray Kunz's major challenge as he fights to establish the market perception he needs in order for Cafe Gray to thrive.

If you're going to Cafe Gray as a Lespinasse fan and hoping to witness the resurrection of Lespinasse, you're going to be disappointed. Were Lespinasse still open, this would be easy for people to accept: Cafe Gray would be the "second" restaurant, as Daniel has Cafe Boulud. You can go to Cafe Boulud and, with very precise navigation of the menu, you can get a meal that's similar to a Daniel tasting menu. You can do the same thing at Cafe Gray, or you can put together a menu of Lespinasse signatures. But that's not the restaurant's raison d'etre. Cafe Gray is a cafe.

As a result of its cafe mission, most of the dishes on the Cafe Gray menu simply aren't intended to represent the same species of decadent luxuriousness and dizzying complexity that ran through most every dish on the Lespinasse menu. They are, rather, meant to represent upscale cafe food designed by Gray Kunz to be less luxurious and less complex than the Lespinasse dishes. This is a restaurant meant to be open for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, where you have a range of ordering options and where they turn tables and do volume.

The challenge will, I think, manifest itself in a couple of ways.

First, the prices are rather high. Gray Kunz has been gone from Lespinasse for half a decade, and in that time the bar has been raised on luxury restaurant prices by Ducasse and Keller. Were Lespinasse still operating under Kunz, chances are it would be significantly more expensive than it was. But those who remember Lespinasse remember what it cost then, and are comparing it to Cafe Gray now. By that yardstick, the more expensive of the Cafe Gray dinner dishes seem to be in the same price range as they'd have been at Lespinasse. So people have Lespinasse expectations, which can't be fulfilled at the majority of tables -- that's just not what the restaurant was designed to accomplish.

Second, because Gray Kunz has no "first" restaurant in operation at this time, there is no restaurant against which to position Cafe Gray as a "second" restaurant. So there will be continuous pressure for Cafe Gray to service those who want to be eating at Gray Kunz's "first" restaurant. Some of that can be accommodated. But if that becomes the overwhelming customer priority, Cafe Gray won't be able to function as it was designed to function, as a higher-volume, lower-cost, simpler place than Lespinasse was.

We'll talk more about the burning question of "how do I get the Lespinasse experience at Cafe Gray?" It can be done, and will become easier as time goes on and the code gets worked out. I'll try to stay on top of cracking that code, and will surely dine there a few times in the process. I'm sure the rest of us will have information to share in that regard as well. In the meantime, I would suggest getting to know Cafe Gray for what it is, not for what it isn't.

[juuceman]

gray was on last night..

we arrived just before nine for our reservation and were seated at a four top immediately.. i was a bit disappointed as i'd asked for a reservation for four and been told they could only accomodate two of us, but this was the only downside to the evening.. they offer a selection of house cocktails, nothing earth shattering, but a nice way to begin the meal.. their draft beer is not yet available..

service was great throughout the meal.. the waiter, without hovering, was around throughout the meal.. a few management type people stopped by throughout the meal to check in with us and make sure everything was ok.. service was seamless throughout in an effortless kind of way.. unlike per se, where the formality of the service is part of what they're selling, here it was comfortable and polished without any attitude.. dishes were delivered and removed without any disruption of conversation or intrusion whatsoever.. explanations of the full menu were offered.. wine service was fine- they matched glasses for us, since our odd order really didn't allow for a bottle to work through the meal..

the room is out of whack with current ny design trends.. it felt like a nyc incarnation of LA in the 80's.. lots of mirrors and just odd surfaces.. i was comfortable and enjoyed it fully though..

the food was amazing.. nothing was less than exquisite, whether a specialty or a regular menu item..

while the meal is an amazing value (on top of which they comped us both wine and a fourth dessert) it's not the $65 that i've seen it priced out at a few times..

the bar was full throughout the meal.. we were definitely the youngest people in the dining room, but the bar was filled with a solid mid-20's crowd.. people were being turned away from eating in the dining room throughout the evening, with seating being offered in the bar area tables for walk ins.. a table of three sat down for dinner after 11 p.m. and there was no mention made of anything being unavailable, or otherwise indicating any stations had been closed as yet.. as we left i made another reservation in two weeks..

[coughy]

we had dinner here tonight and it was a wonderful experience. i forgot how great it is to have real service. the staff was extremely attentive without being smothering. the food was terrific.

my husband who can't get lespinasse out of his system ordered the mushroom risotto and short ribs - he wasn't disappointed.

i had a delicious vitello tonnato and fluke which was on a bed of spinach and topped with gingered spaghetti squash.

our friend also had the risotto and then the warm lobster salad which she loved.

we didn't find the bill too bad and can't wait to go back.

mr. kunz was in the kitchen and found time to come out to say hello.

[newguy]

I was in this week with 3 other friends. I had never been to Lespinasse, so I have no comparison. However, I just wasn't that impressed, and we ate the same dishes being mentioned above.

I found the room confused. The lights didn't match the mirrors. It was like being in a few different places at one time. Having to walk almost outside the restauraunt to use the restrooms are quite inconvient, and I was caught in some kind of traffic jam of waiters and customers trying to get in and out of the dining room on the way back in. I also believe that the servers were just as confused. They stand around, hovering, looking, but were not attentive, as we had to ask for someone to take a wine order and then ask again to refill the glasses.

I also saw possibly the smallest appetizer I've ever seen, even for ny standards. I believe it was the yellowtail. This entire dish could have been finished in 2 bites, and it was $19.

None of us ordered any of the same dishes, so we were able to try a wide variety of things. A few were good. I was dissappointed in 2 appetizers, 1 entree and 1 dessert.

[oakapple]

Bob Lape awards three stars to Cafe Gray in today's Crain's New York Business:

Gray Kunz's new $6 million restaurant in the Time Warner Center is a luscious Viennese cafe with David Rockwell flair. It's a fitting showcase for the prodigal chef's return to the top of the New York restaurant scene.

... ... ...

The cafe-length menu has nine appetizers and as many entrees. The portion size is modest to occasionally downright small. However, flavors are big, complex but distinct, and chef Kunz's trademark Asian accents delight the palate.

[Felonius]

I also saw possibly the smallest appetizer I've ever seen, even for ny standards.  I believe it was the yellowtail.  This entire dish could have been finished in 2 bites, and it was $19.

On my first visit to Cafe Gray, I dined alone at the bar. I ordered this appetizer on the bartender's recommendation. It's a sort of carpaccio with yellowtail marinated in satsuma juice and garnished with a dash of caviar if I remember correctly. I generally enjoy smaller portions but the minute size of this dish was a bit ridiculous in my opinion. It was about the equivalent of one piece of sushi, more of an amuse than an appetizer. This dish was refreshing, and was reminiscent of the "crudo" served at Esca. I wouldn't order it again, however, as I'd bet that some of the other appetizers are more complex and interesting (and bigger!).

I followed up with the shortribs as a main course, which were fantastic. I love shortribs, have eaten many in my life, and would say that Gray's version might be the best I've ever had.

Dessert was a poached pear coated in olives and pine nuts I think (another bartender recommendation). It was interesting, but didn't quite satisfy my dessert cravings.

The shortrib and the dessert were also quite small. I was rather surprised to leave Cafe Gray still hungry after three courses. I seldom eat large portions and can't remember ever being hungry after three courses at any other New York restaurant. The portions I received at Cafe Gray from the a la carte menu were similar to the "downsized" ones offered at Jean-Georges, Daniel, or Cafe Boulud when one is ordering a multi-course tasting menu.

I've only been to Cafe Gray once, and I be interested to hear if the other menu items similarly skimpy.

Edited November 22, 2004 by Felonius (log)

[newguy]

They yellowtail appetizer had tremendous flavors, but the size of that dish was just amazing. To serve something that small is embarrassing. I too, don't mind smaller portions. I don't believe in giving these gigantic portions just because they are very expensive, but when I left Cafe Gray I was starving and had to eat a bunch of junk food at home.

[oakapple]

Is Café Gray open for breakfast yet, and if so, has anyone had breakfast there?

[ajay]

I plan on dining at Cafe Grey soon, and I was wondering if anyone has gotten any closer to cracking the code on how to get the most Lespinasse like experience out of Cafe Grey?

The only two signatures that I know about are the risoto and the short ribs, but since I don't eat beef for religuous reasons, I was wondering if anyone could recommend another Grey Kunz classics or dishes with the complexity and intricate flavors that one would have found at Lespinasse. I have a bias towards substantial portions, but am willing to consider smaller sized dishes that are particularly worthy.

I have only experienced Lespinasse with Chef Delouvrier at the helm, so this would be my first introduction to Chef Kunz's cokking. If I made it into New York more oftem, I think would hold off on the visit as the restaurant still appears to be working out a lot of its kinks. But unless the lawfirm gods smile very brightly and grant me a job this summer, I will not have another opportunity to visit Cafe Grey in the near future, so any advice or recommendations would be most welcome.

[Fat Guy]

The "brasserie" area up front is open for breakfast pastries from 7:30-11. Full breakfast won't be available for some time. Lunch service begins December 7.

Ajay, I don't want to discourage you, because my recent meal at Cafe Gray was quite excellent, but my belief is that going to Cafe Gray in search of "the Lespinasse experience" is a recipe for disappointment. Cafe Gray is not Lespinasse. Cafe Gray is Cafe Gray. Those who experience Cafe Gray for what it is will almost invariably be happier than those who try to game it so as to make it like Lespinasse Reloaded.

There are, to be sure, several Lespinasse-like dishes on the menu. In addition to the risotto and short rib, there's the rice crusted fluke. And the style of every dish represents Gray Kunz's far-ranging, eclectic style. If you ate at Lespinasse on 10 different occasions, Kunz could produce new dishes most every time. Many of the Cafe Gray dishes would have been at home on Lespinasse menus.

But things are definitely toned down a level, especially in terms of the luxury ingredients. There are no avalanches of truffles, even though it's truffle season. You won't be showered in caviar and foie gras. The service team, while skilled, is simply not geared up for the kind of dining that people did at Lespinasse. So my heartfelt recommendation to you is to enjoy Cafe Gray on its own terms. Someday Gray Kunz will surely open a signature fine-dining restaurant. Until then, we have Cafe Gray, and there is so much to love about it that it would be a shame to hold it up to an inapplicable yardstick.

[nicolekaplan]

i have been in for breakfast twice. it's just pastries, coffee, juice and hot chocolate. the danishes are my favorite. it's a nice place to stop for a bite and the prices are comparable to le pain quotidien, which, although it is closer to my house, makes inferior product.

[foodexile]

Someday Gray Kunz will surely open a signature fine-dining restaurant.

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How are you so sure he'll open up a fine-dining restaurant?

[oakapple]

Someday Gray Kunz will surely open a signature fine-dining restaurant.

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How are you so sure he'll open up a fine-dining restaurant?

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It seems to me a reasonable guess, assuming that Café Gray succeeds.

[ajay]

Ajay, I don't want to discourage you, because my recent meal at Cafe Gray was quite excellent, but my belief is that going to Cafe Gray in search of "the Lespinasse experience" is a recipe for disappointment. Cafe Gray is not Lespinasse. Cafe Gray is Cafe Gray. Those who experience Cafe Gray for what it is will almost invariably be happier than those who try to game it so as to make it like Lespinasse Reloaded.

There are, to be sure, several Lespinasse-like dishes on the menu. In addition to the risotto and short rib, there's the rice crusted fluke. And the style of every dish represents Gray Kunz's far-ranging, eclectic style. If you ate at Lespinasse on 10 different occasions, Kunz could produce new dishes most every time. Many of the Cafe Gray dishes would have been at home on Lespinasse menus.

But things are definitely toned down a level, especially in terms of the luxury ingredients. There are no avalanches of truffles, even though it's truffle season. You won't be showered in caviar and foie gras. The service team, while skilled, is simply not geared up for the kind of dining that people did at Lespinasse. So my heartfelt recommendation to you is to enjoy Cafe Gray on its own terms. Someday Gray Kunz will surely open a signature fine-dining restaurant. Until then, we have Cafe Gray, and there is so much to love about it that it would be a shame to hold it up to an inapplicable yardstick.

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I think that I am going to wait for Cafe Grey to get it's feet on the ground. While I don't know what Chef Kunz's long-term vision is, I suspect that once he realizes that there is such a high demand for tasting his eclectic talent applied to luxe ingredients, he may turn CG into something akin to Joel Rubochon's Atelier in Paris, which reprises many favorites and has plenty of ultra luxe ingredients--price wise, it was quite expensive but not approaching Michelin 2-3 star prices. I'd really hate to miss my last chance in a while to have a haute cuisine meal on a restaurant that isn't quite capable of producing what I'm looking for.

In the alternative, given that it now appears possible to charge comparatively higher prices than during Lespinasse's prime, I would not be surprised to see, as other people suggest, a fine dining restaurant from Chef Kunz.

In the meantime, I might as well go to Cafe Boloud. I've never been showered with luxe ingredients, but chef C rivals Mssr. Boloud's deftness in the art of creating successful, integrated tasting menus.

WHile CB's service doesn't rise to 4 star levels, they've been around for a while and the ship is pretty tightly run. I think it's just going to be a lower risk proposition at about the same price point. It's a shame though; CG sounds like it has a lot of potential.

Edited November 24, 2004 by ajay (log)

[Fat Guy]

Gray Kunz's long-term plans, if Cafe Gray is successful, certainly involve opening other restaurants including a signature Lespinasse-level fine-dining establishment. He's told me as much on more than one occasion, and makes no secret of it. That Cafe Gray is not that signature Lespinasse-level fine-dining establishment is no insult to Cafe Gray. That's not what Cafe Gray is supposed to be.

Restaurants need to be evaluated both against universal benchmarks (quality of ingredients, skill of execution of codified techniques) and against what they set out to achieve (is this a burger joint, a bistro/brasserie, an upscale cafe, or a fine-dining restaurant aiming for four stars). Cafe Gray accomplishes what it sets out to achieve, which is the highest compliment for most any restaurant that sets out to achieve serious results.

[foodexile]

Wow I had no idea about Chef Kunz's future.

Very exciting, no?

I want it to open now if only for the buzz

Fat Guy, I realize I sounded snide, so I apologize.

[Fat Guy]

I suspect that once he realizes that there is such a high demand for tasting his eclectic talent applied to luxe ingredients, he may turn CG into something akin to Joel Rubochon's Atelier in Paris, which reprises many favorites and has plenty of ultra luxe ingredients--price wise, it was quite expensive but not approaching Michelin 2-3 star prices. 

This is exactly the point of Cafe Gray, as Peter Kaminsky (Kunz's co-author on his cookbook) reported in New York Magazine:

Block got Kunz into the Time Warner deal. Kunz’s restaurant there, Café Gray, will be fine dining, but on the casual side—a place along the lines of Atelier in Paris, the creation of another demigod escapee from formal haute cuisine, Joel Robuchon.

“What I tried to do at Lespinasse I want to do at Café Gray in a more casual and affordable way,” he explains. “Not dumbed down, just not truffled up.”

[Fat Guy]

Wow I had no idea about Chef Kunz's future.

Very exciting, no?

I want it to open now if only for the buzz

Fat Guy, I realize I sounded snide, so I apologize.

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No, no, it was a reasonable question. And I don't know that it will happen. All I know is that Kunz would jump at the opportunity if, after stabilizing Cafe Gray into a profitable and excellent enterprise, he felt he could have a shot at a four-star kitchen of his own. My feeling, and this was confirmed by a comment Tony Fortuna made to the New York Times, is that Kunz is pursuing the same strategy that Jean-Georges Vongerichten pursued after leaving Lafayette. Vongerichten opened Jo Jo. It was only later, after building the foundations of a new empire, that he got the backing to open Jean Georges. I hope to see Kunz 10 years from now having a number of restaurants covering the range from snack kiosks (these are planned for next year in Time Warner), to maybe a couple of brasseries (or something on the level of Spice Market, but owned by him), to the upscale cafe concept of Cafe Gray, to a Michelin three-star luxe-modern place along the lines of what Lever House might have been if the Kunz deal had gone through there. I doubt he'll ever proliferate to the Vongerichten or Nobu scale, but Kunz is only 49 years old and has plenty of ambition remaining.

[Pan]

Fat Guy, who is Tony Fortuna?

[Felonius]

In the meantime, I might as well go to Cafe Boloud.  I've never been showered with luxe ingredients,  but chef C rivals Mssr. Boloud's deftness in the art of creating successful, integrated tasting menus. 

WHile CB's service doesn't rise to 4 star levels, they've been around for a while and the ship is pretty tightly run.  I think it's just going to be a lower risk proposition at about the same price point.  It's a shame though; CG sounds like it has a lot of potential.

Sorry to get off topic here, but have you dined more than once at Cafe Boulud? I will say unequivocally that it is my personal favorite in NYC.

When Andrew Carmellini (chef at CB) is on his game, it is a marvelous experience. I would suggest calling ahead and requesting a tasting menu, and dining there on an off night such as Monday or Tuesday, or perhaps lunch if you can find the time. I am confident the experience will not disappoint.

Edited November 24, 2004 by Felonius (log)