Rethinking tasting menus

[Margaret Pilgrim]

In March we visited a new restaurant that was receiving tremendous notice.  We each ordered three courses from the carte.  We loved what we had respectively selected and were delighted by the offerts that appeared between each course. The meal was memorable in every detail, the evening was charmed.

We didn't get around to reserving in June, but made an effort to get a table in October.  We decided to give the chef his rein this time, and ordered the tasting menu.  It was disappointing to find that a signature dish started the progression.  Unfortunately, its components are readily available in our area, and we had used it as a lunch dish at home for several months.  Of the next three courses, one was bland/ordinary; another was very good; and the third was in our opinion quite awful, badly conceived, although its components were interesting and could have been knockout in different contexts.  The dessert was enormous and extremely heavy to be part of a many coursed meal; the waitperson, when taking away my almost untouched portion, shook her head and commented that it was very, very rich.

Could we have enjoyed our meal and evening more had we ordered a la carte?  I have no doubt.  I have always been able to enjoy a set menu when it has been the only option, but am rethinking choosing one after this rather miserable disappointment.  Although a tasting menu usually costs less than three courses chosen from the carte and sometimes sounds like a no-contest choice, we will continue to read both sides of the menu studiously, but will probably choose to create our own menus.

Thoughts and experiences?

[robert brown]

Margaret, In general I agree with you that ordering a la carte yields better results. However, there are times when I will order a tasting menu; usually when I am in a place, most likely overseas, that I know I will never return to, and if the tasting menu offers dishes that I am able to recognize from the literature or word of mouth that are the "big deal" dishes. In New York I almost always avoid tasting menus since there's inevitably a limit as to how good the cooking is going to be, and I would rather eat a full portion of a product that I stand a chance of enjoying regardless of how the chef might have mucked around with it. I also have an inherent wariness when it comes to "theme" menus. I keep in mind, however, that truly great restaurants often offer a degustation that turns out have been a good choice.

Did you come across any "vide grenier" sales on your trip?

[Bux]

In general I'm inclined to disagree with all statements made in general. ;)

Sometimes we order à la carte, and sometimes we order a menu. Sometimes we get to (have to) choose between several menus of varying size or focus. Sometimes we enter a restaurant exepcting to choose the tasting menu either because of the restaurant of our mood. At other times, the choice becomes obvious after looking at the carte. Robert offers some of the same thinking that goes through our head, except that he has a much lower opinion of NY food than we do. The consideration of cost and the fact that we are able to return often lead us to choose à la carte, even when I know the tasting would be a treat.

[Wilfrid]

I have the strong impression, from what Margaret says, that she chose a 'blind' tasting menu, in which you only find out how the muse has struck the chef when the dish appears at your table.  Which of course raises slightly different issues than the straightforward choice between a tasting menu and the carte when the dishes for both are fully listed.

If you haven't eaten in a restaurant before, and don't have a reliable recommendation, eating a 'blind' tasting menu has to be a gamble based on your overall impression of the place.  I can remember two occasions on which I've been lucky.  One was a menu at the Auberge de Provence in St James's, London.  I haven't eaten there in several years, but in the early '90s at least, I think this was about the most overlooked fine dining location in London.

The other fond memory is of a restaurant in Bologne, La Liegoise.  A friend and I selected it after peering through the windows and reading the carte.  A beautifully decorated dining room, in a turn-of-the-century Chinoiserie tradition (think understated Whistler); reassuringly populated by very well fed and very well off members of the local, middle-aged bougeoisie.  We took the 'surprise' menu, which turned out to be a perfect example of classic French cooking spread over some seven or eight courses.  I have found the card, and see the proprietor and/or chef was one Alain Delpierre.  I wonder if the restaurant is still good?

[Bux]

Wilfrid, dining out is always a gamble. A blind tasting at an unknown restaurant is a risk--a long shot at best. However, in defense of Margaret, she noted that she had loved not only what she ordered the last time she was there, but found the complimentary courses memorable as well. She understandably felt the chef had earned free rein.

I'm wondering if this is a restaurant we know.

[Fat Guy]

To use New York as an example:

Some restaurants are better for "surprise" tasting menus: Daniel

Others are better a la carte: Gramercy Tavern

I doubt any experienced diner will disagree with either of the above statements, though there are always a few iconoclasts out there. Some people just hate surprise. Others don't like to taste too many dishes in one evening. Fine.

But I do think, primarily, if you're an open-minded diner who likes to eat in a variety of ways, the best choice will vary by restaurant.

[robert brown]

Bux, maybe I'm eating in the wrong places here in NYC! However, we came across the broiled live shrimp in garlic and oil at Dim Sum Go Go recently and have had them twice this past week. There almost as good as the San Remo ones, and you may even think you're eating on the beach in Golfe-Juan!! But more important, if the meal you described at Ducasse of Paris is competitive with his place here, I had better bite the bullet and go there (ADNY) Add what Steven writes and maybe I'll have a conversion. I hesitate because the Louis XV has gone from great to mediocre and thought maybe Ducasse was spreading himself too thin. I guess he's ignoring Monaco or the Prince is worried about money. But how close do you really think the two Ducasse places are food-wise?

To answer your e-mailed question, I got the "Bad Trans B" virus and don't want to send out e-mails until it's fixed. I got e-mails from other e-gullet people I never sent private e-mails to; only just invoked their names on the site. Maybe some techie can tell me how that happened.

(Edited by robert brown at 7:47 pm on Nov. 29, 2001)

[Jason Perlow]

Robert there is no way that eGullet could have possibly caused the spread of the virus, since eGullet runs LINUX and not Windows... what I am guessing is someone who you have corresponded with via email who uses this site (maybe Bux, Steve Klc, any number of folks) contracted this virus, sent you an email on something (maybe a reply to an email you sent) and when you opened the mail up in Outlook, the embedded script in the email launched the virus that infected your system.

BadTransB is a particularly nasty Windows e-mail virus (click here for info). I know this because I just spent the whole day re-formatting my dad's computer that was infected with it. BadTrans originates from Europe. He got it from an art dealer in Paris who he buys antiques from. BadTrans B is especially serious because it installs a keystroke logger on your system (which reads the log of every key you press on your keyboard) and emails it to a hidden email address. That means if you sent anyone credit card information as of the 24th over email or any personal information I would immediately call your various financial institutions and let them know about any unusual charges that might be on your accounts.

A virus scanner might not be able to get this off your system if you are already infected because it locks access to your file system, and the only recourse is to erase your hard drive and reload the operating system.

I would try downloading McAffee Viruscan (ww.mcaffee.com) which is a very good virus scanner program, which you can evaluate for free for 30 days, and this can kill the BadTransB, as can Norton Antivirus (http://www.symantec.com).

[robert brown]

Jason, thanks so much for your insight. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. The virus can from a guy sending an attachment with some old posters illustrated in it, which we couldn't open.. I meant to say that Bux, Peter W. Rosie and Helena sent me messages saying they got e-mail from me that they couldn't open or that got tagged as infected. But I never sent the girls e-mail in my life and, therefore, Rosie and Helena weren't in my address book. I downloaded Norton today and it deleted three of four infected files (but one-by-one; i.e one each time we ran a scan.)I hope the remaining one can be exorcised. But you really know what you're talking about. All things considered, I'd rather be chatting about tasting menus.

(Edited by robert brown at 12:34 am on Nov. 30, 2001)

[A Balic]

Jason and Robert, I have also received an email from Robert with the BadTransB virus in it. I haven't ever emailed anybody from eGullet, nor has anybody from eGullet emailed me. Any idea what's going on?