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Gelato Tips & Techniques

38 posts in this topic

I made some gelato the other day- taste was lovely. I used dark chocolate bits and glazed walnuts and some vanilla beans for flavor. The only problem was a little icyness.

I heated the milk and cream and then mixed it into the eggs and cooked it on medium high over water for several minutes maybe about ten.

I'm wondering if I cooked it too long.

Any thoughts?

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I would think that, the icyness probably has more to do with either your recipe or freezing process rather than cooking of your custard. You usually want to cook your custard to about 185F, after cooking it should be smooth and thickened.

Whenever my ice creams come out a little icy its usually do to the freezing, for example while its it the ice cream machine i add something to the custard (alcohol, chips) that lowers the temperature and melts some of the custard. So I would suggest that you always make sure that all of the ingredients you add to the machine are cold. I usually refridgerate the base of my ice cream over night. You should also keep anything you plan to add to it cold.


Mike

The Dairy Show

Special Edition 3-In The Kitchen at Momofuku Milk Bar

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well the recipe calls for freezing the custard for an hour or two until its frozen about an inch away from the side of the pan. Then to take it out and mix in the chocolate bits and stir it up(At that point it's kind of part frozen part soupy). Then stick it back in and freeze until set.

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well the recipe calls for freezing the custard for an hour or two until its frozen about an inch away from the side of the pan. Then to take it out and mix in the chocolate bits and stir it up(At that point it's kind of part frozen part soupy). Then stick it back in and freeze until set.

so your not using a machine?


Mike

The Dairy Show

Special Edition 3-In The Kitchen at Momofuku Milk Bar

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well the recipe calls for freezing the custard for an hour or two until its frozen about an inch away from the side of the pan.  Then to take it out and mix in the chocolate bits and stir it up(At that point it's kind of part frozen part soupy).  Then stick it back in and freeze until set.

so your not using a machine?

Nope no machine. I thought perhaps that might be a part of it.

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Did you refrigerate the custard first for a few hours? That will allow it to freeze quicker without it forming ice crystals. Also, did you use enough sugar?

For as long as they said until it was frozen about an inch away from the sides-about 1 hour and 40 minutes.

The sugar about 3/4 cup to 1 1/4 cup of milk and 2/3 cup of heavy cream and 2 1/2 oz of chocolate bits and a few walnuts.

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You will never get a smooth texture without ice crystals without using some kind of fast-freezing ice cream maker. The inexpensive home models that have the inner canister you put in the freezer work quite well for small batches. The faster the freeze, the smoother the finished product. Also, it is important to agitate as it freezes to break up the forming ice crystals.

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1) Though I posted this in the general food thread, I might get a different view here: what is being measured when someone says gelato is X% butterfat? The butterfat as a percentage of the total volume of the gelato by weight? Volume?

2) I'm trying to get the smooth, gooey texture in my fruit (non-dairy) gelati. I've tried cornstarch as a thickener, but they're not there yet. Egg whites, gelatine and simply a higher sugar content are other options. Ideas here?

3) In Italy, many of the gelati, dairy or fruit/nut only, had a shiny sheen to it, though I did notice that the better products had less of this. What is it? This was true in northern as well as middle Italy, where their gelato styles are a bit different.

Thanks!

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Just bumping this topic back up to see if anyone can help Michael M.?

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I don't have answers to this, but do have a suggestion (though possibly you have already tried it...)

There are a number of websites that sell professional gelato machines (and lots of 'mixes' that go with them, too...). Some of these have 'help' sites or at least a contact e-mail. Surely they would have these answers...

Good luck! Gelato, mmmm, yummy! :smile:

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The smooth gooey texture is difficult to get without dairy.

Some recipes call for gelatine or "fish glue" -

The more the product is beaten, the more air that is whipped into it, the smoother it will be.

Beating whipped egg whites into the mixture also give a smoother texture.

What source are you using for recipes?

This site has a few: Italian recipes

This is an explanation of the differences: Italian frozen desserts

I have made both the Lemon Ice in lemon cups and the peach granita at this site

They are both excellent. The peach granita uses gelatin.

Italian ices


"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

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Thanks. I just made a trip up north where there were still sour cherries, so will be continuing the experimentation with gelatine as well as egg whites (leftover from the yolks used in milk gelati, of course!).

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One of the ways to achieve a smooth, creamy non dairy gelato (sorbetto) is to finely control the amount and types of sugar used. By substituting powdered glucose and sometimes powdered dextrose or invert sugar, you should be able to get the texture and mouth feel you want. Boiron, a French supplier of fruit purees, has receipes on their website. Go here to see them. Patisfrance also has a similar set of recipes. Boiron usually adds 10% sugar to their purees, so you should do the same. Just puree the fruit to the desired state, then stir in 10% of the weight in granulated sugar.

Let us know how your sour cherry turns out.


Steve Smith

Glacier Country

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One of my bosses was making orange blossom gelato the other day and right after it stopped spinning he tasted it and exclaimed, "Taste this right now, it is perfect, but it will be ruined after an hour of subsequent freezing because it will crystallize." I mentioned that I had a hunch that the use of sodium alginate would help to stabilize the mixture and that I happened to have a kilo of it at my house and he wants me to try and fix the gelato. Only problem is, I don't really have a benchmark measurement to go by and I was wondering if anyone here has experimented with this and could tell me how much alginate to how much gelato mixture. Thank you in advance to any replies.


"Make me some mignardises, &*%$@!" -Mateo

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I know this won't help you now, but the mixture needs to "bloom" at least 24 hours in the refrigerator, (so the proteins can relax or something to that effect), before adding to the ice cream maker. Otherwise, ice crystals will form. Hope you can fix it with the sodium alginate!


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

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we do allow the mixture to sit chilled for many hours.


"Make me some mignardises, &*%$@!" -Mateo

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Lee--yes, various alginates and carraggenates have been in ice cream and sorbet stabilizers for decades--depends on the brand and blend, along with gelatin, carob bean flour, 0% milk powder, dextrose etc. as well, depends whether you want to stabilize fat in addition to water. Depending on the formulation, measurements are typically 2-6g per kg. (I use Sevarome stabilizers.)


Steve Klc

Pastry chef-Restaurant Consultant

Oyamel : Zaytinya : Cafe Atlantico : Jaleo

chef@pastryarts.com

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thanks...I will try these ratios and see how they turn out.


"Make me some mignardises, &*%$@!" -Mateo

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So how did the ratios turn out


Jeremy Behmoaras

Cornell School for Hotel Administration Class '09

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The figure that we were given, for ice cream and sorbet stabilizers, (at the 3 day Ice Cream and Sorbet class presented at the World Pastry Forum by Sebastien Canonne of the French Pastry School) was .3% of the total weight of the mix. That would be 3gm in a 1Kg mix.


Fred Rowe

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I would use guar gum. It has a natural sense to keep water from crystallizing during the freezing and thaw-refreezing.


Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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I dont know too much about gums, with guar, xanthan, and whatever elese in the market, I'm just starting to learn about it ... Could you maybe elaborate a little more on the different gums and their different properties and when they might best be used?

How about using methylcellulose?


Edited by jbehmoaras (log)

Jeremy Behmoaras

Cornell School for Hotel Administration Class '09

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guar gum dissolves rapidly in cold water, which is useful for this particular need. It creates a more viscous liquid, kind of like xanthan gum. Guar gum does not, on the other hand, form a gel like its counter part locust bean gum. What makes guar better than locust bean gum for this instance is it is more soluble and a better emulsifier. This is due to a greater amount of galactose branch points.

(galactose present in many forms. Galactose is a monosaccharide that is less sweet than glucose. It is converted from Galactan through the process of hydrolysis. Galactose is use for food energy (stores) for the plants these gums are extracted from. .....Galactose plus Glucose = Lactose).

Guar gum is typically not affected by pH, but will be affected with pH extremes. like Locust bean gum, it retards crystallization during thaw-freeze circumstances. Apparently it does not intend to do this as Locust Bean Gum. But I am guessing theprocedure is the same. Locust bean gum forms a gel to protect its food stores. This gel infact blocks crystallization from forming which enables the product to freeze consistently and smoothly.


Edited by chiantiglace (log)

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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could you advise when guar gum would be more suitable than using xanthan gum


Jeremy Behmoaras

Cornell School for Hotel Administration Class '09

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