Best restaurant in Philly?

[KatieLoeb]

Is there anything I need to know about Morimoto? I presume (and hope) that they only take reservations one month out?

You might want to investigate local parking lots for a space you can reserve for the Brinks truck you'll need to have with you to pay the bill.

If you really want to drop that much coin for your birthday you can surely do better than Morimoto. Style over substance and service.

[stephenc]

Just so you know, Morimoto is crazy expensive. I've been there twice: once for a birthday, and once for a company-comped meal. It's neat and the food is good, but I had to get Wendy's down the street afterwards because I wasn't full. And it cost over a hundred per person.

[sara]

I'm sorry to disagree again guys, but honestly are you really saying Morimoto is much more expensive than Vetri or Le Bec's prix fixe menus? Granted, you will NEVER go away hungry from Le Bec, but it's mostly because you stuffed yourself on the dessert cart. Me, I went away hungry from Vetri. Mostly 'cuz what I had there wasn't worth eating, but also the portions are quite small.

I've been to Morimoto 4 times, and only once spent more than $100-- and I love sushi. Order the chef's combination (comes in the $30, 50 or 70 range)--even the $30 has quite a bit on it. That, an appetizer, a dessert, one drink--that's about $100. Sure if you insist on doing the omakase, or a full dinner including sushi + entree, it's more, but you're not obligated to do that. Katie, I know you feel Morimoto is a ripoff compared to Matt's place, but Matt's way out in the suburbs, lacks birthday-appropriate atmosphere, and at least when I went, lacked some of the fish selection Morimoto always has. I can't imagine Morimoto would strike a New Yorker as expensive. Me, it does, a bit, but only a bit. We've got a place here in DC--Sushi Ko-- where I can get exactly the assortment and quality I get at Morimoto in a less-flashy setting, for about $50/per person. Wish that'd come to Philly (I can't believe I just said DC had something better than Philly!! ) . But until it does, I would never call Morimoto "lacking substance" (or service actually--they've always been polite and know their stuff)--the sushi is fantastic there. Plus it's fun for birthdays-- if he's there, the chef will come over and visit with you.

Edited July 14, 2004 by sara (log)

[davidbdesilva]

I'm a little confused here. Blue Hill NOT IN THE TOP 50 IN NYC? I had one of my best dining experiences ever there, which means that either I'm pretty stupid (a real possibility! ) or that me and a lot of other NYers are quite deceived. Azula10, you liked Fork? Fork is OK but light years behind Blue Hill. PLEASE, tell me the 50 NYC restaurants (in the same price range as Blue Hill) that are better so that when I'm there I can eat at them!

Also, while I absolutely love food and wine I refuse to spend obscene amounts of money on a meal (I recently read that someone spent $600 at Per Se for 2 people! Even if I could afford that, my conscience wouldn't let me!). And concerning "poor stemware", is nice stemware preferrable? Absolutely. Will I let ordinary glasses like those served at Django stop me from enjoying my wine or cause me to get angry at the restaurant, of course not! The fact that I spent $88 for 2 apps, 2 entrees, 2 desserts and coffees for the level of taste and creativity of food was incredible and I will try to return to Django as often as I can! It sounds like you want much more formality and glamour for your meal and in that case I don't think Django fits the bill for you.

[Azula10]

I'm a little confused here. Blue Hill NOT IN THE TOP 50 IN NYC? I had one of my best dining experiences ever there, which means that either I'm pretty stupid (a real possibility!  ) or that me and a lot of other NYers are quite deceived. Azula10, you liked Fork? Fork is OK but light years behind Blue Hill. PLEASE, tell me the 50 NYC restaurants (in the same price range as Blue Hill) that are better so that when I'm there I can eat at them!

Also, while I absolutely love food and wine I refuse to spend obscene amounts of money on a meal (I recently read that someone spent $600 at Per Se for 2 people! Even if I could afford that, my conscience wouldn't let me!). And concerning "poor stemware", is nice stemware preferrable? Absolutely. Will I let ordinary glasses like those served at Django stop me from enjoying my wine or cause me to get angry at the restaurant, of course not! The fact that I spent $88 for 2 apps, 2 entrees, 2 desserts and coffees for the level of taste and creativity of food was incredible and I will try to return to Django as often as I can! It sounds like you want much more formality and glamour for your meal and in that case I don't think Django fits the bill for you.

I did enjoy Fork although I didn't intend to draw a comparison between Fork and Blue Hill. I also didn't qualify my rating of Blue Hill not being in the top 50 in NY with any sort of discussion of price. To be sure, dollar for dollar Blue Hill would be in my top 50 in NY, and likely in most New Yorkers' when price is a significant factor in the ratings process.

However, on a pure ratings basis with cost as no object, Blue Hill in my opinion doesn't rise to top 50 status.

Regarding the rest of your post, I'm sure you will find people that agree and plenty that don't. Having spent $300 pp at Per Se I can tell you that I found it well worth the expense and one of my favorite dining experiences of the past year.

And as far as stemware, I am by no means "angry" at Django, they can certainly run their restaurant as they see fit and it appears that they are filling the tables. I saw the BYO policy as an opportunity to splurge on wine, and for me, that is pointless if the stemware isn't befitting the bottles. I have no doubt that Django serves many purposes well, but perhaps not my birthday. And finally, stemware to me has nothing to do with glamour and everything to do with pure enjoyment of wine.

[ylm23]

I just have to put in my $0.02 regarding LBF. I wouldn't hand my money to them for anything.

First, you would/should expect the food to be perfect, and it wasn't. Some dishes were downright mediocre (although, to be fair, the cheese tray was phenomenal). Second, for a special occasion, you expect tip-top service. My dining companions were 1/2 hour late and I was not offered water, bread nor a menu to read. They could have sold an extra glass or two of wine had they bothered to acknowledge my existence. Finally, after the waiter spilled a full glass of kir royale over my stepmother, they did replace the drink, but charged us for the spilled one!

There are plenty of other "experience" restaurants in Philly, go to one where you are confident you will enjoy yourself.

[R Washburn]

I just have to put in my $0.02 regarding LBF. I wouldn't hand my money to them for anything.

First, you would/should expect the food to be perfect, and it wasn't. Some dishes were downright mediocre (although, to be fair, the cheese tray was phenomenal). Second, for a special occasion, you expect tip-top service. My dining companions were 1/2 hour late and I was not offered water, bread nor a menu to read. They could have sold an extra glass or two of wine had they bothered to acknowledge my existence. Finally, after the waiter spilled a full glass of kir royale over my stepmother, they did replace the drink, but charged us for the spilled one!

There are plenty of other "experience" restaurants in Philly, go to one where you are confident you will enjoy yourself.

You should have sent a letter or emailed management. They are very responsive.

I know Le Bec-Fin bashing is a popular local past time, but it really is the only restaurant in Philadelphia I would rate as "worth a trip" from New York. If Le Bec-Fin was in NY, I would rate it among the 10 best NY restaurants.

[KatieLoeb]

I'm sorry to disagree again guys, but honestly are you really saying Morimoto is much more expensive than Vetri or Le Bec's prix fixe menus? Granted, you will NEVER go away hungry from Le Bec, but it's mostly because you stuffed yourself on the dessert cart. Me, I went away hungry from Vetri. Mostly 'cuz what I had there wasn't worth eating, but also the portions are quite small.

I've been to Morimoto 4 times, and only once spent more than $100-- and I love sushi.  Order the chef's combination (comes in the $30, 50 or 70 range)--even the $30 has quite a bit on it. That, an appetizer, a dessert, one drink--that's about $100. Sure if you insist on doing the omakase, or a full dinner including sushi + entree, it's more, but you're not obligated to do that.  Katie, I know you feel Morimoto is a ripoff compared to Matt's place, but Matt's way out in the suburbs, lacks birthday-appropriate atmosphere, and at least when I went, lacked some of the fish selection Morimoto always has.  I can't imagine Morimoto would strike a New Yorker as expensive. Me, it does, a bit, but only a bit. We've got a place here in DC--Sushi Ko-- where I can get exactly the assortment and quality I get at Morimoto in a less-flashy setting, for about $50/per person.  Wish that'd come to Philly (I can't believe I just said DC had something better than Philly!! ) . But until it does, I would never call Morimoto "lacking substance" (or service actually--they've always been polite and know their stuff)--the sushi is fantastic there.  Plus it's fun for birthdays-- if he's there, the chef will come over and visit with you.

Sara:

If you'll read carefully I didn't even mention Fuji (or Sagami). Obviously I didn't need to as my opinion is well documented . However, in my limited experience at Morimoto I found the portions precious, and certainly of no higher quality than could be had elsewhere. I find the drinks overpriced and the specialty cocktails pretty lame. Also, the servers I saw were clueless about the menu with the exception of the canned little speech they had very well memorized that pushed the overpriced specialty cocktails and upsold the more expensive specials to pump up the check. Any questions that deviated from the "script" were met with a blank stare. The food and a knowledgeable waitstaff are as much a part of the "ambiance" of a meal as the high priced designer that picked out the spectacular and expensive light fixtures. Perhaps even moreso.

Style over substance. Performance art with food and a cast of waiters and sushi chefs. Not a special occasion place in my book.

[sara]

If you'll read carefully I didn't even mention Fuji (or Sagami).  Obviously I didn't need to as my opinion is well documented .  However, in my limited experience at Fuji I found the portions precious, and certainly of no higher quality than could be had elsewhere.  I find the drinks overpriced and the specialty cocktails pretty lame.  Also, the servers I saw were clueless about the menu with the exception of the canned little speech they had very well memorized that pushed the overpriced specialty cocktails and upsold the more expensive specials to pump up the check.  Any questions that deviated from the "script" were met with a blank stare.  The food and a knowledgeable waitstaff are as much a part of the "ambiance" of a meal as the high priced designer that picked out the spectacular and expensive light fixtures.  Perhaps even moreso.

Style over substance.  Performance art with food and a cast of waiters and sushi chefs.  Not a special occasion place in my book.

Hi Katie

Yes, I noticed you didn't mention Fuji, but assumed you were thinking it, based on prior posts. And I assume you were describing Morimoto in your post this time, here, tho you said Fuji (Freudian slip? ). We've had very different experiences with service at Morimoto-- my servers were both wine knowledgeable and sushi-knowledgeable--apt at recommending interesting fish, describing particularities we weren't familiar with, etc. Also, we never felt pushed to order more expensive items. In fact, one time we underordered by a lot, and it would've been ok for the server to suggest we'd need more food, and he still didn't push. Finally, I can't imagine comparing the quality of the sushi at Morimoto to any other place in Philly, except maybe Fuji. No better than at Nara, or the conveyer-belt-place in West Philly who's name I've willingly forgotten, or the place on 15th, or Kisso? Really? We've eaten different sushi then.

R. Washburn:

Re: Le Bec Fin being in the same ranks as NYC restos, or being the best of Philly-- I dated a waiter from LBF for 2 years, and ate their food and desserts all the time (brought home mostly, sometimes I went in). Not ONCE did I have an entree or app I thought was particularly special. The desserts are usually too sweet and overdone. Everything I've had by Steve Klc here in DC has vastly exceeded all but the LBF chocolates. Really, for 1970s-style French food, with little innovation, Georges has it done. But what's new or special about that? They lost their star due to service--arguing in front of the reviewer! The service is overly formal and often dismissive to those not on Georges special list. And no, they do not always respond to complaint letters, in fact I overhead many discussions of said letters and a 'special filing can' for them while hanging out there. and really, I promise my relationship with the waiter has nothing to do with my opinions on the place-- he knew how I felt even as he worked there.

Edited July 14, 2004 by sara (log)

[KatieLoeb]

And I assume you were describing Morimoto in your post this time, here, tho you said Fuji (Freudian slip? blink.gif ).

Duly edited. Thanks for catching that. No Freud - just a lousy typist working on a lousy night's sleep last night and completely lacking focus today.

Certainly Morimoto is better than Mr. Starr's other sushi restaurant, Pod, they of the conveyor belt and color changing booths ("Oooooooohhhh! The booths change color!" BFD in my book. And eating sushi that's been spinning around on a conveyor belt? Gah!) and again, way more style than substance. The selection of fish at Morimoto was better than *most* other places, but I wasn't as blown away by the quality of the fish as I felt I should have been at those prices. The preparations were creative, but suffered with the quality of fish IMHO. Sushi and sashimi are all about the freshness and pristineness of the fish itself. No matter how skillfully sliced or artfully placed on the plate, if the fish isn't sublime then I'm just not so impressed. Fuji excels at both the preparation and selection of high quality fish at half the price of Morimoto. No waiters hawking silly Saketinis because it's BYO or acting like it's my privilege to be in their restaurant for the night, in spite of the fact that they can't answer a relatively simple question because it isn't part of the little skit they perform at each table dozens of times per night. Was this a limited statisical sampling? Sure it was, and I'll be the first one to admit that. I was there once to eat and one other time for drinks. Haven't been back since because the place didn't live up to the hype or sadly, it's potential. As far as the entire stable of Starr restaurants goes, I find the food a Tangerine to be the most interesting and the most legitimate value. Morimoto is certainly good, but since other alternatives exist I won't bother going back. If there were no Fuji or Sagami as close by as they are then I suppose Morimoto would be the best Japanese that Philly has to offer. But the service issues and the price would still bother me.

[stephenc]

On the subject of sushi, there are a couple suburban sushi places that are pretty good. I've always found the fish at Osaka and Bluefin to be consistently fresh. Osaka has good straightforward sushi, while Bluefin has a dazzling array of inventive and delicious rolls that will infuriate sushi purists.

Ask for fish specials at both places, and they may surprise you.

[R Washburn]

R. Washburn:

Re: Le Bec Fin being in the same ranks as NYC restos, or being the best of Philly-- I dated a waiter from LBF for 2 years, and ate their food and desserts all the time (brought home mostly, sometimes I went in). Not ONCE did I have an entree or app I thought was particularly special. The desserts are usually too sweet and overdone.

It might have tasted a bit better fresh off the line. In my experience Le Bec-Fin is very close to Daniel in both quality and style. In fact my favorite captain at Daniel commented to me that when Perrier is in the kitchen at Daniel it is like having "two Daniels".

As I mentioned above, if you don't like Daniel and ADNY, you won't care for Le Bec-Fin.

Everything I've had by Steve Klc here in DC has vastly exceeded all but the LBF chocolates.

You are right that the desserts are only very good, but not spectacular. Still, they are about 1000 times better than what you will find on the dessert cart at the Fountain.

Really, for 1970s-style French food, with little innovation, Georges has it done. But what's new or special about that?

I know people in Philadelphia claim this, but it is not remotely true. Perrier is conservative and he is a perfectionist, so his menu does not change as fast as some, but I would bet that the current menu doesn't remotely resemble what was being served at the old Le Bec-fin in the '70's and 80's. Was "Roasted salmon, hearts of palm, cherry tomatoes and fava beans fricassee, green asparagus, lemongrass and ginger emulsion" really the way Perrier served salmon in the '70's? How about "Sautéed lobster with spiced pineapple and vanilla oil? Is that a recipe from Escoffier?

I bet I have never tried at least 80% of the dishes on the current Le Bec-Fin menu.  

 

They lost their star due to service--arguing in front of the reviewer!

Not really, and the service problem that lead to the complaint was because Chef Perrier was trying to do a favor for the busboy in question (a recent immigrant from the Ivory Coast. IIRC) by hiring him even though he lacked sufficient experience. Repeated mistakes by the busboy provoked the captain into losing his temper.

The main reason they lost the star was because so many new great restaurants had opened in recent years and Mobil wants to keep the list of five stars very short.

The service is overly formal and often dismissive to those not on Georges special list.

Actually, one of my criticisms of Le Bec-Fin is that the service is overly familiar, rather than formal. I would say that the service is closer to Grammercy Tavern in style then ADNY.

I would also say that one of the things you are paying top dollar for at Le Bec-Fin is an incredibly high level of service for EVERY customer. This is not Le Cirque, where they treat you like earwax unless you are a regular. They are trained to attempt to fulfill any reasonable request from the patrons, regular or not. Would they prepare a special menu for an unknown customer? I don't know, but I have never inquired.

And no, they do not always respond to complaint letters, in fact I overhead many discussions of said letters and a 'special filing can' for them while hanging out there.

I emailed a minor complaint about the quality of a lunch at Le Bar-Lyonnais, and received an immediate response and apology. I didn't bother taking the manager up on his invitation to ask for him on my next visit.

Sara,

Le Bec-Fin may not be for everyone, but it is a fantastic restaurant that was years ahead of anything in NY when it opened at its new space on Walnut street in the late '80's. Now the bar has been raised, and there are restaurants in NY that surpass it, but Perrier is still competing and trying to make Le Bec-fin the best restaurant in the world.

Philadelphians should be proud to have a restaurant of this caliber.

Edited July 14, 2004 by R Washburn (log)

[SG-]

Sara,

        Le Bec-Fin may not be for everyone, but it is a fantastic restaurant that was years ahead of anything in NY when it opened at its new space on Walnut street in the late '80's.  Now the bar has been raised, and there are restaurants in NY that surpass it, but Perrier is still competing and trying to make Le Bec-fin the best restaurant in the world.

Philadelphians should be proud to have a restaurant of this caliber.

Had my first michelin star experiences at Le Grand Vefour and Carré des Feuillants in Paris last week and have to conclude that LBF still lags these places in terms of service and food. Granted you'll be looking for a second job after the bill. And for the first time my wife had no complaints about the food, other than portions were too large.

[mantee]

Each and everyone of those are my favorites. How about North on Third? The bar can mix and the kitchen knows their stuff, please don't leave them out.

[herbacidal]

Each and everyone of those are my favorites. How about North on Third? The bar can mix and the kitchen knows their stuff, please don't leave them out.

You mean N 3rd, right?

As opposed to North, the bar on South St.

[MarketStEl]

If you'll read carefully I didn't even mention Fuji (or Sagami).  Obviously I didn't need to as my opinion is well documented .

Well, since I'm new here and haven't yet gone to the trouble of sifting through the back posts on these forums to find your opinions of Fuji and Sagami, I will just have to assume that what follows backs you up on the latter.

I was at a birthday party for a friend (a former student of my partner's) in Roxborough (I really don't think of the area around Wissahickon Regional Rail station as Roxborough, but there were banners on Ridge Avenue proclaiming it so, so that's what I will call it) this afternoon, and I got into a conversation with a fellow from New York who was raving about the sushi he had at a restaurant in Fort Collins, Colo.

After proclaiming myself a similarly inclined sushiphile, and asking him about some of the varieties he has had, I suggested to him that the next time he is in the Philly area, he must visit Sagami.

It's a fabulous restaurant, intimate and cozy--maybe almost too cozy; the ceilings there strike me as a bit low, and I'm only 6'0"--busier than Grand Central Terminal on weekends, and the best sushi I've had in the area.

I also warned him that it's in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it location on Route 130 in Collingswood. For the public-transit-minded (like me), it's a bit of a shame that it's right next to the PATCO High-Speed Line, but just far enough away from the nearest station (Ferry Avenue) to make a walk uncomfortable. (Or maybe I'm just reacting to the look of the territory between Ferry Avenue station and US 130.)

Edited July 25, 2004 by MarketStEl (log)

[MarketStEl]

One more comment: I've yet to experience Carman's--usually I'm shopping for groceries when I'm in the area, and I generally don't like to go into restaurants with my shopping cart in tow--but I have had some really good experiences at Sam's Morning Glory, not too far away from there. Downside: I've had to wait a while for almost all of them. Then again, I hear that it's hard to get into Carman's too.

[mrbigjas]

It's not that hard; just call first.

[bunny]

the best restaurant in philly- stripedbass

[herbacidal]

One more comment: I've yet to experience Carman's--usually I'm shopping for groceries when I'm in the area, and I generally don't like to go into restaurants with my shopping cart in tow--but I have had some really good experiences at Sam's Morning Glory, not too far away from there. Downside: I've had to wait a while for almost all of them. Then again, I hear that it's hard to get into Carman's too.

I was just talking about this earlier today.

I haven't been to Morning Glory for a while, in part for the same reason, the crowd. Sabrina's is the same way of course.

Bella Vista must have had a population increase in the past 8 years or so.

On the good side, Fitzwater Cafe, just reviewed in Phila Weekly/City Paper, is still relatively undiscovered, and there's Cafe Sud on Passyunk.

Also yet to experience Carman's. Need to stop waiting for an occasion.

[KatieLoeb]

the best restaurant in philly- stripedbass

Only according to Philadelphia Magazine. Have you checked the amount of high ticket advertising the Bass (and Steven Starr's entire empire) does in Philly Mag? Full back and inside front covers, as well as several pages in between....

The Best of Philly awards are a lot like The Wine Spectator awards in many cases.

Rouge got "Best Burger", but we have many times in the past as well. Not doing much advertising in Philly Mag of late, but I wonder if they actually tried the Burgers at Good Dog, Abbaye or Ten Stone? I like all of them but am partial to ours because I eat them so often.

[Holly Moore]

One more comment: I've yet to experience Carman's--usually I'm shopping for groceries when I'm in the area, and I generally don't like to go into restaurants with my shopping cart in tow--but I have had some really good experiences at Sam's Morning Glory, not too far away from there. Downside: I've had to wait a while for almost all of them. Then again, I hear that it's hard to get into Carman's too.

Not so, if you make a reservation. The rules, only two.

1. Call the morning of the reservation. The earlier the better.

2. Be on time.

2 1/2. Leave the kiddies at home.

[stephenc]

the best restaurant in philly- stripedbass

Only according to Philadelphia Magazine. Have you checked the amount of high ticket advertising the Bass (and Steven Starr's entire empire) does in Philly Mag? Full back and inside front covers, as well as several pages in between....

The Best of Philly awards are a lot like The Wine Spectator awards in many cases.

Rouge got "Best Burger", but we have many times in the past as well. Not doing much advertising in Philly Mag of late, but I wonder if they actually tried the Burgers at Good Dog, Abbaye or Ten Stone? I like all of them but am partial to ours because I eat them so often.

I eat bar food more than half the time I eat out, and my personal opinion is that Good Dog's burgers are better than Ten Stone, better than Monks, better than Standard Tap.

They have those sweet potato fries too that are superb.

oh yeah, I'm gonna hype the pulled pork sandwich from Ten Stone yet again. One of the best pulled pork sandwiches I've had in the northeast.

Edited August 4, 2004 by stephenc (log)