Italian in Vancouver

[snacky_cat]

Gosh, all the times I have eaten there it seems I have never had to use the ladies (I clearly wasn't drinking enough!) I will have to remember to not go before I leave home next time so I can check it out!

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Go to the far stall - the one with the thing that looks like a Nintendo controller stuck to the wall - and experience the finest in Japanese toilet hygiene technology!

[kissmekate]

OK, next time I have a hankering for Italian, Quattro it is! I swear I have been in their loo's and never noticed anything strange...

They have a pasta dish on their menu that they served as staff dinner all the time and it made it onto the menu. Very spicy, excellent! I have worked in/for a few restaurants now where a favourite staff meal has made it on to the menu. In fact, the cover of Rob Feenie's first cookbook is a pasta dish that his old Sous Chef Marnie cooked for staff dinner all the time.

Jamie, I thought Enoteca was Sushi, why did I think that? I love roast chicken, order it all the time up at Provence. I will have to give Pino's a try.

Cate

PS I have a very crude, and I think funny..., story of an experience I had at Cipriani's a couple of years ago. I was on a really bad date. I think I have to drink lots of wine before I can actually write it down and have the nerve to share it in public! Naughty words! Stay tuned...

[peppyre]

Oh Cate, now that you've sparked interest you must share the story!

Please, do not go to Nick's. The last time I was there for my Dad's birthday, I swore that it would be the last. This has been a favorite haunt of my grandmothers for over 50 years, and I don't think it's been cleaned in that time either. I finally had convinced my grandma that there were better Italian restaurants in her neighborhood that weren't overly priced,(like Da Francesco's, and it closed) and had fresh well-made food with quality ingredients. I have a horrible feeling that I will be darkening the doors of Nick's once again.....and of course, due to the nostalgia that old-timers in that part of town have, Nick's will live on forever.

[Keith Talent]

I kinda like Nicks. Ducky said, "Of course the utter tackiness of the decor could be high-camp if intended ironically - but neither the surly staff nor the truckers, Hells Angels enforcers, and longshoreman that make up the clientele suggested to us that there was any irony at play here. Nor was any other humour in evidence" Uhh, that's what makes it good. If the irony was intended, it'd be just another group of irritating retro-hipsters. And we already have Main Street to satify that demographic. The fact that the clientele consider the food good, and the decor authentic makes it somewhat charming.

And I didn't want to post this, but discression isn't a strong suit. Does Vancouver really have a SINGLE good Italian spot? Yes we have restuarants that purport to serve Italian food that are quite good, but truthfully in all my time in Italy I've never seen anything resembling supposed Italian cuisine here in Vancouver, particularly in the casual low end. Yet the restaurantuers are Italian. Thet clearly know what they're doing.

In my opinion the biggest disconnect between a cuisine in it's homeland and the exported version is Italian. Chinese is like China, French is (almost) as it is in France, same with Japanese. Italian? Completely and totally different.

[the g-man]

And I didn't want to post this, but discression isn't a strong suit.

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discression trailing closely behind spelling and use of smilies.

[Keith Talent]

I guess to answer my own question is that Italian food more than any other seems to be a cuisine of Place. You could probably piss a Frenchman off really bad by telling him that Italian food has more terroir than French.

Then again to contradict my own contradiction, Italian food in private homes here in Vancouver seems very Italian to me.

It's a weighty issue. Better minds than mine will need to adress it.

[canucklehead]

This is getting OT - but I would add two more cuisines to KT's list of disconnected cooking - Indian and Greek (I mean I cannot think of ONE Greek Restaurant in Vancouver that I like). Perhaps some cuisines don't translate well to restaurants. Availability of ingredients and a the culture's local attitude towards eating out I think also has an impact.

For Chinese people (especially HK'ers) eating out is a very natural part of daily living - and restaurants that are able to best exemplify 'home cooking' are the most well received. My Indian friends, however, are adamant about the best food being home cooked food. My understanding is that Indian restaurant culture was not very developed due to caste concerns of who is in the kitchen

What about Dario's? They seemed pretty relaxed and 'natural' about their Italian cooking. Are the closest to the real deal in terms of attitude and execution? I've heard from Italians friends that their food is pretty close to real Italian.

[Keith Talent]

Yeah, although I've never been to Greece I've been told that the food is totally different from Greek here. But the diference, here in Vancouver at least is our greek restuarants are uniformly crappy. We have lots and lots of italian-style resturants that are superb, with the unifying trait that the food is not really italian.

[Keith Talent]

I think in a lot of ways, part of the problem may be endemic to all of North America, our appetite for more. More ingredients, more garnishes, more flavours, just more. The simple preparations would never fly here. The poor restauranteur would be broke in a week as the clueless braying masses would register their disappointment that the proscuitto bruschetta was a piece of ham on toast. Where's the roasted red peppers, the capers the fresh basil? What the hell kind of appetizer is ham on toast?

Plus you could never get bread good enough to pull off such a simple construct here. Maybe better to hide behind a thick smear of tapenade.

[shelora]

Perhaps some cuisines don't translate well to restaurants. Availability of ingredients and a the culture's local attitude towards eating out I think also has an impact.

Well, what I think - encouraging a bit more of OT - is that a restaurateur who wants to make a living eventually must give in to what the people want. Generally speaking.

And subtlety is not a big feature of our culture. It is something we have to re-learn or just simply learn. But subtlety is out there, you just have to seek it out.

Chef Lisa Owen - the person you all are helping to have a great evening out in Vancouver runs a small very exquisite place in Olympia Washington called The Mark.

Her menu and specifically her pasta dishes evolved out of growing up in Berkeley's gourmet ghetto and many, many trips to Spain and Italy. Her dishes are full of subtlety - the tagliatelli with grilled red bell peppers, pine nuts and olive oil she calls Tuscan beach cuisine. Simple flavours, fresh ingredients. Most people would say, "Where's the meat balls?" "Where's the tomato sauce?"

Luckily, not her customer base.

Down the street from her is another restaurant, Trianacria, run for the last 15 years by Eugenio Aliotta, a Sicilian. He is there, cooking every single day. Alone. And usually delivers the dish to your table. The place is always packed. And the prices are insanely inexpensive.

Again, here was another subtle dish filled with flavour and made a huge impact just for it's subtlety - house made fettucini dredged in pecorino romano, topped with crushed black pepper and sauteed pinenuts. Outstanding. Both places served some of the best pasta dishes I've had in years. Stunning subtletly must be encouraged and supported. Seek it out now.

I have sent her your suggestions of where to eat with websites.

Here is the Olympia info, if anyone finds themselves there soon.

The Mark, 407 Columbia St., 360-754-4414 www.themarkolympia.com

Triancria, 113 N. Capitol Way, 360-8892

Edited June 10, 2005 by shelora (log)

[brokentelephone]

I goto La Terrazza a few times a month (often weekly) for their Bolognese. I usually request that it come with spagetti in leau of their tagliatelle as I find the sauce more suited for the thinner noodle.

That being said, is there anywhere else with a decent bolognese sauce? Il Giardino is good, although inconsistent, and I found Feenies to be excellent (albeit unauthentic)! Most restaurants seem to go overboard with tomato paste/sauce which ruins the delicate flavors of the meat (if cooked correctly).

[Ducky]

In my opinion the biggest disconnect between a cuisine in it's homeland and the exported version is Italian. Chinese is like China, French is (almost) as it is in France, same with Japanese. Italian? Completely and totally different.

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I agree with you about the disconnect in the case of Italy - but would add all Mediterranean cuisines to the list. I mean you can go to any restaurant in any village on any island in Greece and have just a Greek salad that will bring tears to your eyes. And you will ask yourself WTF is it about this tomato, cucumber, onion, feta and olive oil that makes it so brilliant - and the answer has to be, as Keith points out, the terroir.

I once had a meal in the mountains of Crete (with some shepherds) which consisted of raw garlic, bread, olive oil and Retsina chilled in a stream. You ate a clove of garlic, followed this up with a large piece of bread dripping in olive oil and an ice cold cup of Retsina. This meal will stay with me as one of my personal top ten. Why? Well "terroir" is as good a reason as any.

Now Italy is a country of regional cuisines, and in Vancouver most Italian places try to be all things to all people. That's the beginning of the problem. I applaud Addesso and a few others for narrowing their focus. (Whatever happened to Piccolo Mondo - which used to be brilliant about 15 years ago?)

In the Med. - less is always more. Keep it fresh, simple and almost Zen-like pure. Think of sage-fed lamb cutlets grillet over a charcoal brazier (Greece). Tomato and garlic bruschetta (Italy). Grilled Serrano-ham wrapped sardines with lemon (Spain)....

Is Vancouver ready for a restaurant that sets these priorities? I'm really not sure. But if anyone is interested in this concept - please PM me.

[Feedbag]

In Greece many years ago and was shocked to discover

Greek food is infinitely better here in Vancouver. Which should

tell you something. Probably spent too much time in the Plaka

and not enough in the small villages but was way disappointed.

As for other cuisines that don't translate, don't forget Mexican

(in Canada), but there's a whole other thread on that. Still

waiting for a decent burrito, decent salsa and a damn fine

margarita...

Italian food in Italy is superb no matter where you go, small village

or big city. It's all about the fresh. And simple. I hate fussy food.

[Ducky]

Feedbag:

You are right about bad food in the Plaka. But this is the "clip-strip" where tourists are fleeced in the most shameless way, and the locals always avoid it. If you tell an Athenian that you are going to the Plaka for dinner - they will just shake their head in pity and shame.

We have always eaten very well in Greece. You have to ask your way around a bit and find out where the locals eat. This is critically important in Greece because, unfortunately, given the vast numbers of tourists that Greece sees each year, countless dreadful, soulless restaurants have sprung up to feed rubbish to the tourists. These kinds of establishments are everywhere in Greece and are not representative of what I would consider authentic Greek cooking.

This "let's rip off the tourists" mentality is of course not confined to Greece.

[Keith Talent]

This "let's rip off the tourists" mentality is of course not confined to Greece.

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See most of Robson for further proof.

[Vancouver]

Just wanted to revive this thread and ask if there are any new additions on the casual Italian front anyplace in the Greater Vancouver area. I still haven't found one that I can really get excited about. Someone? Anyone? Please?

[McTee]

Just wanted to revive this thread and ask if there are any new additions on the casual Italian front anyplace in the Greater Vancouver area.  I still haven't found one that I can really get excited about.  Someone?  Anyone?  Please?

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I have found that Capone's has had consistently good food for years, and the live music is a big plus for dinner.

For some reason, lunch is never busy although every other restaurant in Yaletown is packed.

Hmmmm..........

[inanimate]

I have found that Capone's has had consistently good food for years, and the live music is a big plus for dinner.

For some reason, lunch is never busy although every other restaurant in Yaletown is packed.

Hmmmm..........

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I personally found their pizza to be pretty lacking during lunch. Soggy crust with no chew to it. I was lucky to have a proscuitto pie over at lombardos the same week and was much happier with it. Also quite liked their linguine alle vongole as well.

[11son]

Vancouver, have you tried Arriva?

I really can't say enough good things about it (although some folks may point out that I try).

~11

[Vancouver]

I have not. That is on Commercial, right? I'll have to try it.

Cheers!

[11son]

Yup!

On the west side of the street. It's between Gravely and Grant, I believe.

If Paolo (the owner) is around on most peak nights, and if he's there, it's worth calling him over and asking for a recommendation. He loves to meet his customers, will definitely put in a good word for you in the kitchen, and may even make you something off the menu.

And speaking of off the menu, he does a great zabaglione for dessert. If you're into that sort of thing, ask about it when you first sit down. It is time-intensive to prepare, and if it is quite busy or late by the time dessert rolls around, your odds of actually getting it go way down if requested post-meal.

Also, if you are into the vino, Paolo has his own personal stash of premium bottles that also aren't on the wine list (and not necessarily a lot more expensive either). Generally a good idea to ask himj about that as well.

Here's the website, although it is not representative of the experience there, so you have to promise not to take it too seriously:

http://www.arrivaristorante.ca/

Good luck! I look forward to hearing what you think....

~11

[badpesto]

What about Lombardo's on commercial at 1st . Great pizza, cheap spagetti and meatballs and crappy chianti. Perfect! and it's in a weird mall when all the stores are closed around it. Surreal and fun. Presto Panini on Thurlow @ Robson for lunch....cheap and honest.

Go to Frederico's Supper Club also on Commercial and 1st. The food is actually great and the room is awesome. Full big band Fri / Sat. also surreal and fun.