An interface between the two languages

[_john]

One correction:  not nigiri sushi but nigiri zushi.  When preceded by certain words, sushi changes into zushi.

Thus,

chirashi zushi

inari zushi

temaki zushi

If you read Japanese hiragana, this may be easier to understand:  su す changes to zu ず.

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Some more examples:

mawari zushi

kaiten zushi

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can we call kaitenzushi guruguru zushi too?

[Kaitenzushi]

can we call kaitenzushi guruguru zushi too?

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Of course, be my guest.

[Hiroyuki]

Kaitenzushi is the most common term in Japan, followed by kurukuruzushi. Guruguruzushi is the least common. In fact, I had never heard of it until John mentioned it.

[Kaitenzushi]

Kaitenzushi is the most common term in Japan, followed by kurukuruzushi.  Guruguruzushi is the least common.  In fact, I had never heard of it until John mentioned it.

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Guruguruzushi is the same as kurukuruzushi, but with extra beer. Please believe us.

[_john]

Kaitenzushi is the most common term in Japan, followed by kurukuruzushi.  Guruguruzushi is the least common.  In fact, I had never heard of it until John mentioned it.

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Guruguruzushi is the same as kurukuruzushi, but with extra beer. Please believe us.

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To me kurukuru means something small and spinning and guruguru means something large and turning.

guruguruzushi is a kind of slang that that I have heard used here among 20-somethings. I use it, it sounds less mechanical than kaitenzushi. Beer/sake and chawanmushi is usually involved.

[Hiroyuki]

To me kurukuru means something small and spinning and guruguru means something large and turning.

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That's not necessarily true. I find it hard to explain their difference in brief. Maybe some other time...

[torakris]

To me kurukuru means something small and spinning and guruguru means something large and turning.

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That's not necessarily true. I find it hard to explain their difference in brief. Maybe some other time...

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This was the way I also differentiated between the two words, I am also looking froward to your explanation.

Damn you guys post a lot! I spent the past two weeks out with a case of pneumonia and I am really trying to catch up on the posts here...

[Hiroyuki]

To me kurukuru means something small and spinning and guruguru means something large and turning.

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That's not necessarily true. I find it hard to explain their difference in brief. Maybe some other time...

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This was the way I also differentiated between the two words, I am also looking froward to your explanation.

Damn you guys post a lot! I spent the past two weeks out with a case of pneumonia and I am really trying to catch up on the posts here...

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Oh , odaijini (take care of yourself) .

***

I talked to my kids (10 and 7), and I have come to this conclusion: Intensity. The size of the object rotating, spinning, turning, etc. really doesn't matter.

I had a feeling that we could never say things like "guruguru kawaru" instead of "kurukuru kawaru" (to change greatly), but I have found that some people write "guruguru kawaru" probably because they think that the intensity of changes require the use of guruguru rather than kurukuru.

[purpleplasticdoll]

Hello there. I need some help ;-)

I'm not sure if this has been asked before... anyway, I went to this Korean beef bbq restaurant and had a beef bbq bento, my Japanese friend ordered the set for me but this time I'll be on my own. I don't remember the words for less marbled beef, I don't want too much fats in my beef. Can some one type the japanese characters here for me? I'll copy it and try to match them with the menu ! TIA.

[Hiroyuki]

Hello there. I need some help ;-)

I'm not sure if this has been asked before... anyway, I went to this Korean beef bbq restaurant and had a beef bbq bento, my Japanese friend ordered the set for me but this time I'll be on my own. I don't remember the words for less marbled beef, I don't want too much fats in my beef. Can some one type the japanese characters here for me? I'll copy it and try to match them with the menu ! TIA.

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Hmmmm...

You simply want the words for less marbled beef?

Here is one example:

霜降りが少ない牛肉

(霜降り shimofuri

marbled meat

牛肉　gyuuniku

beef)

But I don't think this is very practical. You can copy it and show it to the staff, though.

Some other words you may need to know:

赤身 akami

lean meat

脂身 aburami

fatty meat

[purpleplasticdoll]

^Thank you. Yup I think it has more to do with parts of the beef, right? Or I could just go with the cheapest option ;-) cos I think marbled beef is more valuable right

[Hiroyuki]

^Thank you. Yup I think it has more to do with parts of the beef, right? Or I could just go with the cheapest option ;-) cos I think marbled beef is more valuable right

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Why don't you study what parts are available with a site like this?

Or, won't somebody provide purpleplasticdoll with some good information?

Sorry, I'm no fan of yakiniku.

[purpleplasticdoll]

Yeah, actually I was looking through hotpepper for some korean bbq places & using an online translator to translate the menu just to see what it says, doesn't really say anything less marbled & etc but thats okay. I'm also worried about picking up wrong flavours of onigiri.. but I'll look through the threads here! thank you for your help anyway! =)

[torakris]

At yakiniku shops there are usually 3 types of beef:

harami ハラミ　(the least fatty and cheapest)

karubi　カルビ (this is usually a belly cut with layers of fat)

rosu ロース(this is the usually the marbled kind of fat and most expensive)

Harami is my favorite as it has the best beef flavor. The amount of fat on the karubi and rosu can really vary from restaurant to restaurant.

[purpleplasticdoll]

^

Thank you!

I searched some Korean Beef Bbq restaurants' menu &

http://www.hotpepper.jp/A_20200/strJ000039416_hmd0.html

now I know what to order 塩ハラミ ! Thanks

[_john]

I was browsing the flour aisle today when I came across this flour that looked interesting:

日清　びっくり!!

顆粒小麦粉（450g）

当社独自の技術で小麦粉を顆粒状にしたことで、ダマにならず、水溶けがよく、粉が舞わない、使い勝手の大変よい魅力的な小麦粉です。

Is this just flour where the wheat is ground to a larger granule or is it similar to Wondra flour in America? Either way it would be useful for cooking so I'd like some help figuring it out. It is the bottom item on this page.

[Hiroyuki]

I was browsing the flour aisle today when I came across this flour that looked interesting:

日清　びっくり!!

顆粒小麦粉（450g）

当社独自の技術で小麦粉を顆粒状にしたことで、ダマにならず、水溶けがよく、粉が舞わない、使い勝手の大変よい魅力的な小麦粉です。

Is this just flour where the wheat is ground to a larger granule or is it similar to Wondra flour in America? Either way it would be useful for cooking so I'd like some help figuring it out. It is the bottom item on this page.

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I didn't know anything about these two flours, but judging from the description, I think it's like Wondra.

[Hiroyuki]

Which is the right pronunciation of 中巻き here, chuumaki or nakamaki?

I found some answers here.

It seems that chuumaki is better, but I am still tempted to say "nakamaki".

[torakris]

In this case to my foreign brain chuumaki makes more sense. I can't be sure though what I would say though if I just saw the characters and not in the context of which they were used.

I did ask my (Japanese) husband last night and he said it was nakamaki as well....

I guess I assumed it was chuu because I see it as a size differentiation, it is the middle size of 3 sizes.

[Blether]

Chuumaki - yeah, I can't think of a case where chuu 中 used to refer to size would be pronounced 'naka'. If it was meant to mean 'rolled up on the inside', naka would make sense, but any other sushi you order that's rolled up is simply 'maki', sometimes 'temaki' if you like the ice-cream-cone effect. Then the kun-on-kun sequence throws you off... but the bloke in Hiroyuki's reference sounds authoritative, explaining that there is a different, specific preparation called 'nakamaki'. I'm left wondering idly what it might be.

But I came here to ask a different question. I was in the o-nigiri thread looking at another of your nicely-executed photos, Yamaguchi-san, and I thought, "scallion ? Away you go, that's leek", as I've done a couple of times looking at Japanese & English foodie web pages this week.

In my world 'scallion' is a spring onion, no two ways about it, nothing much like negi (quite like asatsuki, though). Negi is a leek. (Do I remember right that true western leek is poronegi ?).

Negi = scallion ???! Or am I being too much of a Brit ?

[torakris]

In my world 'scallion' is a spring onion, no two ways about it, nothing much like negi (quite like asatsuki, though).  Negi is a leek.  (Do I remember right that true western leek is poronegi ?).

Negi = scallion ???!  Or am I being too much of a Brit ?

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Or maybe I am too much of an American...

I believe the actual translation for the Japanese (naga) negi is Japanese bunching onion. I avoid using that word because it is long and most people wouldn't know what I was talking about. Where I come from in the US scallions are much more commonly used than leeks, especially in Asian cuisines, which is why I chose to use the word scallions.

Of course it also depends on the day... I am sure I have referred to negi many different ways over the years.

[Blether]

"Japanese bunching onion" ? Pythonesque. What a daft name

[Hiroyuki]

So, does anyone know a preferred English term for negi?

I did some googling and found these two Wikipedia pages.

This page in Japanese suggests that the English term for negi is scallion, and

this one in English suggests that Welsh onion is the English term for negi.

Note also:

They are also known as green onions, spring onions, bunching onions or scallions, especially in the U.S., but those terms have also been used for other kinds of onions.

I just can't come up with a right conclusion!

[Blether]

Hiroyuki, thanks for "pricking the sides of our [collective] intent". To be rigorous,

Allium Fistulosum

(from Wikipedia in English)

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Welsh onion (Allium fistulosum) is a species in the onion genus Allium. A perennial, Welsh onions never form solid bulbs and the scape, like the leaves, are hollow (fistulosum means "hollow") as well as fragile. In taste and odor they are very like the garden onion and hybrids between the two (tree onions) exist. They are also known as green onions, spring onions, bunching onions or scallions, especially in the U.S., but those terms have also been used for other kinds of onions. Historically, the Welsh onion was known as the cibol.[1]

Although larger varieties – such as the Japanese negi – of the Welsh onion resemble the leek, and smaller species resemble chives, and all plants are used in similar ways, the Welsh onion is a different species of vegetable.

In addition to their use in cooking, they are often grown in a bunch as ornamental plants.

The name is a misnomer in modern English, as Welsh onions do not come from Wales. "Welsh" preserves the original meaning of the Old English word welisc, "foreign". The plant originated in Asia, possibly Siberia or China. Welsh onions are known as 蔥 (pinyin: cōng) in Chinese, 葱 or ネギ in Japanese (the Japanese transliteration, negi, is another term for Welsh onions), and 파 ('pa) in Korean.

In Asian cuisine, especially in East and Southeast Asia, Welsh onion is an important ingedient.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_onion

Kenkyusha says

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ねぎ 葱

a leek; 〈わけぎ〉 a spring [Welsh] onion; a scallion; 〈あさつき〉 chive(s)

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Wakegi ? I'm still going to call them leeks (and scallions, spring onions).

Edit: ouch, same page as you, Hiroyuki. Sorry 'Spring onion' is used in the UK for what is caled 'scallion' in the States. And to me, as I said, it's not like negi at all.

If I explained to a UK-er in most casual cases I'd use 'leek', even if 'welsh onion' is technically correct. I never heard of 'welsh onion' before I'd been in Japan for a number of years. Before that, if I'd heard it I'd have thought, "hmm. Maybe that's supposed to mean 'leek'". If I was trying to explain a recipe to someone outside Japan who couldn't get negi, we'd have to figure out how to handle it.

I'll leave the US perspective to those who know.

Edited February 7, 2007 by Blether (log)

[torakris]

I had never heard the word Welsh onion until I came to Japan either, I probably would never use it to describe a negi as most people would have no idea what it is was.

In the midwest part of the US at least scallions are about all they've got, when I need a negi in the US I would use a scallion over a leek every time.

Maybe if we all keep using the term negi all the time, it will become as well known as daikon and kabocha and then we will no longer have to translate it.