Upscale Supermarkets and Cheese Abuse

[DonRocks]

Whole Foods pre-cuts almost all of their cheeses and wraps them in clear-plastic wrap, then puts them in open refrigerated display cases for an unknown amount of time.

This is a big no-no, and I'll go so far as to say that the majority of the pre-cut cheeses (meaning, over 50%) I have purchased from Whole Foods have been damaged, either through being poorly aged (which I cannot prove), or being poorly stored once they've been cut (which is self-evident), or both.

The outstanding mail-order company Formaggio Kitchen discusses the correct way to wrap and store cheeses in this link.

I have suffered through this for years at Whole Foods - otherwise fine cheeses having been clearly damaged due to abuse. Tonight was the last straw: yet another ammoniated Reblochon, its skin mottled with varying color, and a foul smell of ammonia on the nose.

Whole foods should not be offering fine cheeses unless they age them properly (or buy them aged properly) and present them correctly; unless they cut them on demand and not leave them out on display wrapped in plastic. This is a big deal and customers are unknowingly suffering because of the indifference, ineptitude or willful misconduct being displayed by the management in charge of the cheese sections at Whole Foods.

Needed to be said,

Rocks.

[Mark Sommelier]

Cheese abuse is a very serious matter. Rocks, I urge you to notify the cheese district attorney and have him convene a cheese grand jury to look into this grave matter and hopefully hand up some stern cheese indictments.

[syzygy8]

I urge you to notify the cheese district attorney

This actually sounds like it could be a fun job! I wonder if the post is open!

[hjshorter]

Is there a store in this town that doesn't?

Everything I've bought from Dean and Deluca has been overripe to the point of making me nauseous just smelling it, and Whole Foods, as you pointed out, doesn't have a clue either. I used to have some luck at the Bethesda Sutton Place, but no longer.

[Steve Klc]

"This is a big deal and customers are unknowingly suffering because of the indifference, ineptitude or willful misconduct being displayed by the management in charge of the cheese sections at Whole Foods."

Don--isn't the real issue that customers are unknowing and cannot taste or detect the difference? That awareness has to be raised somehow and we can't rely on a vendor like Whole Foods to care enough to do it--so who will? Who else is complicit around town and/or in national media?

Is wine abuse--improper shipping and storage--as big a or bigger problem? Ever been dissatisfied with wine purchased from Whole Foods?

My own brush with Whole Foods willful ignorance toward their own ingredients was over bulk retail chocolate--and by that I mean the chocolate that wasn't packaged by the manufacturer. I mean the broken chocolate pieces: how they'd break up the same big blocks of Valrhona, El Rey or Callebaut a pastry chef might use, wrap them in cling film and re-sell them. In theory, a good thing for consumers, who wouldn't normally want to buy 11 pounds of a chocolate at a time like a pastry chef. However, chocolate is very sensitive to temperature, air and light--and buy removing it from the foil wrapper or foil-lined plastic pouch of the manufacturer--and by re-wrapping it in flimsy cling film, which is very permeable, and by exposing it to the storelights all day and night--after time what the customer bought was usually dull, murky, dry, stale or even somewhat rancid--especially the white and milk chocolates which have a much shorter shelf-life anyway than dark chocolate.

All preventable sensory defects, all due to mishandling.

If that wasn't enough, chocolate was handled by the cheese department--and guess where the bulk retail chocolate in most Whole Foods was located? That's right--piled above the cheese displays. Nothing like a little roquefort aroma in your 100% Venezuelan cacao. (That's actually a combination which can work in the right hands--but buying the two already fused--and then trying to make your recipe with it, no thanks.)

[DCMark]

So true about the amonia smell on the Reblochon. I do perfer the cheese at Dean and Delucca which is generally not pre-packaged.

Has anyone ordered cheese from France? Not really legal but like overseas pharms....?

[Raynickben]

Actually I have ordered cheese from France and it was outstanding.

Fromages

[HOOLIGAN]

Cheese abuse is a very serious matter. Rocks, I urge you to notify the cheese district attorney and have him convene a cheese grand jury to look into this grave matter and hopefully hand up some stern cheese indictments.

First:

It's funny you should mention this because I have a regular guest who is a total cheese slut and is currently presenting oral arguements to to Supreme Court. Perhaps we could tap him to push this though the system. He'd probably do it pro bono if I dangled enough Epossies in front of him.

Second:

This same gentleman has spoken with me at length about one day hanging up his trial suits to open a cheese shop. Now I'm not big on snuff'n out other peoples dreams but it had to be said how stupid an idea that would be. It's not his fault, it's a great idea that I've had as well and we would both lose our shirts. Why? No one would show up. Now you're all saying I Would! I Would! Really? how often and how much? (rememeber no change for twentys at any artisan shop inside the beltway) But really, The population of DC would never go. This isn't Paris or for that reason any big European city or even NYC of San Fran. Nope this is one stop shopping at Safeway to drag back to your maudlin suburban existance in time for FRIENDS. As a general rule (and as E-gulleters you do not apply) no one in this day and age in this city would be found stopping off at the butchers, then cheese shop, the farmers market, then maybe breadline for a loaf and over to Amernick's dessert on a more than monthly bias. Here it comes again, I Would! I Would! Really? how often and how much? And I already told you you don't apply. If you go to London you could stop in at Bloomsbury Cheeses, The Cheese Block, The Cheeseboard, Cheeses, International Cheese Centre, Rippon Cheese, Teddington Cheese, The Real Cheese Shop, Hamish Johnston, Jeroboams, La Fromagerie, Neals Yard or my favorite Paxton & Whitfield who also conduct their own affinage. None of which would stand a chance here. DC isn't London and thank the sweet baby Jesus for that. But in this regard and that of cab drivers they got us beat and bad. Damn near everyone has got us beat. But we can't sure up the defenses and make a stand as you'd only be cutting your own financial throat. To disagree with me is noble but you'd still be wrong. However if you bankroll, it council and I will drive it into the ground for you.

Food For Thought

[DCMark]

Actually I have ordered cheese from France and it was outstanding.

Fromages

I saw that website before. Thanks for letting me know it works. Now did you order from the French site or the US-legal site?

[Joe H]

I've had problems over the past five years buying Mauri Gorgonzola Dolce from Sutton Place which was prepackaged. As a result I've learned to ALWAYS have it cut to order-never buying it prepackaged. I've also followed this practice with Wegmans who also carry it. Having said this I'm buying one pound + at a time and generally have the "luxury" of having them open a new package. For a smaller amount I probably could not do this. Reggiano is ALWAYS better when cut from a new wheel. It is also better when cut from a new wheel which is moist in the center as I've found in Italy. Still, this is almost impossible in America so I always end up buying it prepackaged.

My experience with Whole Foods has varied from store to store. Simply, for me, it depends on the turnover. I've found their Vienna store to be superior to any other that I have been in; in fact although I live in Reston I'll drive to Vienna for cheese, meat and produce. Actually, I should say that I use to drive to Vienna; now I drive to Sterling and go to Wegmans whose produce I actually prefer over any Whole Foods that I have been in. In most cases it is not superior, rather it is the breadth of their inventory and the pricing that justify it. Also, they are going to carry local farm grown produce once it is available.

Dean and Deluca is the best cheese shop in the area. It is also the most expensive and inconvenient for me. Thus, Wegmans and the Vienna Whole Foods.

[Mrs. P]

Here here to the previous posts. The cheese selection at Whole Foods has left me pining for better cheese. The Dean and Deluca reblochon has been good in past tastings.

The pre-packaged cheese dilemna has another dimension. Sometimes you don't want to buy the size that they are trying to sell you, but you do it anyways because you want the cheese! Often I want a slice of cheese half the size that I am forced to purchase. Has anybody else had this problem. For the store it probably provides some reliability in stock turnover, but it can be really frustrating as a customer to but 2+ times as much as you want (spending 2+ times as much as well!!!).

[HOOLIGAN]

Cheese is a funny thing. All the restaurant seem to be doing it now. And they like Whole Foods and countless others have no clue. Lots of people tell me "Nectar has the best cheese." And I smile and thank them. But the thing is I get it from the same places as everyone else. I can't take the credit. That's for some farmer halfway around the world. I'm only there to not muck it up. It's a lot like making wine. It's made in the vineyards as they say. The winemaker if they're worth their salt or potasium metabisulfite as it were simply helps him into the bottle. It's also a lot like babysiting. After 12 years hard labor in Juvee I learned life (and death) lessons from "The Saran Wrap Incident" that I've taken with me as I've reintergreated into society and have served me well even with cheese. Maybe others should put some time in on the chain gang before taking a stab at it. Maybe they too will learn to serve it at the right temp. at the right time and leave off the kumqaut gellee confit compote jam with squirrel urine reduction.

[bbq4meanytime]

Can't you just ask them to cut a fresh wedge for you? The butcher at Safeway has done this for me in the past with regard to meat. Most people can't tell the difference between abused and un-abused cheese is my guess anyways.

[raisab]

Hi,

I thought I might make a few of you just a little jealous. I fly to Paris every week with work at AA. I always bring a little cooler with me. Then I hit the fromageries! Sometimes I just go to Auchon or Monoprix (cheeses still sooo much better than anything here!). I bring back my favorites usually an Epoisse, chevre en robe, Brie de Mieux, roquefort for my hub. The cheeses stay fine on the flight over. I keep them in the cooler in the refrigerated compartments on the plane. One of the great perks of my job!

[DCMark]

Cheese is a funny thing. All the restaurant seem to be doing it now. And they like Whole Foods and countless others have no clue. Lots of people tell me "Nectar has the best cheese." And I smile and thank them. But the thing is I get it from the same places as everyone else. I can't take the credit. That's for some farmer halfway around the world. I'm only there to not muck it up. It's a lot like making wine. It's made in the vineyards as they say. The winemaker if they're worth their salt or potasium metabisulfite as it were simply helps him into the bottle. It's also a lot like babysiting. After 12 years hard labor in Juvee I learned life (and death) lessons from "The Saran Wrap Incident" that I've taken with me as I've reintergreated into society and have served me well even with cheese. Maybe others should put some time in on the chain gang before taking a stab at it. Maybe they too will learn to serve it at the right temp. at the right time and leave off the kumqaut gellee confit compote jam with squirrel urine reduction.

Thanks for your input. Are you telling me that a restaurant buys it cheese from the same source as the grocery store? Aren't there specialty cheese shops (especially in NYC) that sell only to restaurants?

Funny story. On our recent trip to france I bought about 5 lbs of cheese. I decided to put it into my checked bags as the temp would be lower. Certainly worried that the beagles would smell it at Dulles.

At the baggage return pre-customs at Dulles. Bag comes out. No need for dogs there, you could smell the cheese from 10 feet away. WOW. Luckily our customs agent had a cold!

[DonRocks]

Dean & DeLuca has had its share of misses over the years with me too, but it's the only game in town as far as I've seen.

At Whole Foods, Sutton Place, etc., there's no choice except to buy "safe" cheeses: cheddars, whole disks that are underripe, sturdier items such as blue and parmesan. As a general rule, anything that's soft, smelly and pre-cut isn't worth the gamble.

But I've had tremendous success over the years ordering from Formaggio Kitchen in Massachusetts (888-212-3224). They import cheeses from all over Europe while they're still young, and age them in-house. When you order, they air-freight the cheeses in refrigerated styrofoam, and they arrive at your doorstep the next day, properly chilled and in perfect shape. I've found that if I order $50-75 of cheese, the price actually comes out lower than what I'd pay at Dean & Deluca (there's a small shipping fee, but no sales tax). It's always best to call them rather than order from their website because their selection changes all the time. Just call them, and ask to speak with someone who can help you put together an order. Tell them a dollar amount you wish to spend, the types of cheeses you've liked in the past (specifying type, ripeness level, etc.), and five minutes later you're done.

The drawback to this? You have to order sufficient quantity to justify the shipping charges, and you have to plan your cheese party at least one day in advance since they won't arrive until the next day, but other than that, it's no harder than ordering from Land's End.

I'll also mention Artisanal in New York (877-797-1200). I've never ordered from Artisanal, but knowledgable friends tell me that it's a peer with Formaggio Kitchen, and that these two places rock head-and-shoulders above everything else.

They both have websites which you find easily enough through Google, but I emphasize that your best bet is to pick up the telephone.

Cheese,

Rocks.

[DCMark]

The Formaggio website seems to be down.

[Raynickben]

Actually I have ordered cheese from France and it was outstanding.

Fromages

I saw that website before. Thanks for letting me know it works. Now did you order from the French site or the US-legal site?

I order from the US site. It arrives the next day and it is well packaged and at a nice, cool temperature.

[Joe H]

I'm really surprised at all of these problems with Whole Foods cheese. I've been buying almost weekly from their Vienna store since it opened four or five years ago and can count on one hand the number of times I've been disappointed. I would trust mail order cheese far LESS than I would Whole Foods or Wegmans. I've had mixed results with various over night mail order from Urbani to chocolate; despite packaging precautions I've still had far too many packages opened with blue ice that was warm.

I've also carried cheese back from both France and Italy. This is the link to a post of mine from Chowhound almost two years ago about an experience I had in a Bologna cheese shop:

http://www.chowhound.com/boards/general13/...ages/41002.html

Because I travel a lot (1K, Million Mile Flyer on United) I probably benefit from considerations that some others might not. Still, I've brought cheese packed in blue ice on board planes and asked attendants to refrigerate it for the whole flight which they courteously have. I should note that with eppouisses the refusal to might have a smell that would overwhelm the plane! (Although you can now buy eppouisses here I do not believe it is tasty as that purchased there.)

For the person who mentioned Auchan: they have built several fantastic stores including one in Val d'Europa near Disney that rivals the Wegmans in Sterling. It's not quite as big, not quite as good but perhaps because it is IN France and has so much inventory available it is fantastic. I would guess that it is about 110,000 square feet while Wegmans Dulles is 130,000.

[bleudauvergne]

We knew the cheese circuit in Los Angeles like the back of our hand when we were there, we had no choice. One stop to the Beverly Hills Cheese Shop where the perfectly affined La Rustique runs 23€ a loaf and we habitually found ourselves scrounging the bins of Whole Foods. They seemed to have the art of killing semi soft cheeses down quite well. I once unknowlingly picked up a dead Pont Leveque. Of course it had been completely asphyxiated in wrap and rotting in it's own waste. It was dissapointing, but I learned my lesson. Then again there were other cheeses that they seemed to have a much better handle on, cheeses that support wrapping like chevres. Maybe at that particular branch the chevres had a higher turnover, though. On the whole I can agree though with what you said. They did leave things way past their prime there, and pre-cut way too much. As for the reblochon that smelled of ammonia, did you let it breathe for awhile after you unwrapped it? Sometimes if you let it evacuate the stink for awhile it comes back. If you cook with it that too can make the most of a bad situation.

[HOOLIGAN]

Thanks for your input.  Are you telling me that a restaurant buys it cheese from the same source as the grocery store?  Aren't there specialty cheese shops (especially in NYC) that sell only to restaurants?

Yep, We get our cheese from many of the same sources and Dean and Deluca and Whole Foods. We also use Terrance Brennan's Artisanal Wholesale Dept. But in many instances they're also culling from these same sources. Sometimes it's just easier to pay their premium to one stop shop. Along with Steven Jenkins, Max McCalman who heads up artisanal are the US's foremost authorites on the subject. So I know that when I pay the extra scrilla I get the extra love.

[HOOLIGAN]

htmI probably benefit from considerations that some others might not. Still, I've brought cheese packed in blue ice on board planes and asked attendants to refrigerate it for the whole flight which they courteously have. I should note that with eppouisses the refusal to might have a smell that would overwhelm the plane! (Although you can now buy eppouisses here I do not believe it is tasty as that purchased there.)

I believe Epoisses is the only food substance to be banned on public transport by the frog student council... I mean French Goverment

[syzygy8]

Along with Steven Jenkins, Max McCalman who heads up artisanal are the US's foremost authorites on the subject. So I know that when I pay the extra scrilla I get the extra love.

When Jenkins spoke in DC earlier this month he had praise for D&D (naturally) and said aside from there, he recommended Whole Foods. I don't know if he made the Whole Foods recommendation because he believes it, or simply because he knows that there's NOWHERE else to buy cheese around here. Everything else (inc. Sutton Place) is crap in his eye.

I've done okay with cheeses at Arrowine in Arlington, but I've only bought there once or twice.

[Busboy]

Cheese is a funny thing. All the restaurant seem to be doing it now. And they like Whole Foods and countless others have no clue. Lots of people tell me "Nectar has the best cheese." And I smile and thank them. But the thing is I get it from the same places as everyone else. I can't take the credit. That's for some farmer halfway around the world. I'm only there to not muck it up. It's a lot like making wine. It's made in the vineyards as they say. The winemaker if they're worth their salt or potasium metabisulfite as it were simply helps him into the bottle. It's also a lot like babysiting. After 12 years hard labor in Juvee I learned life (and death) lessons from "The Saran Wrap Incident" that I've taken with me as I've reintergreated into society and have served me well even with cheese. Maybe others should put some time in on the chain gang before taking a stab at it. Maybe they too will learn to serve it at the right temp. at the right time and leave off the kumqaut gellee confit compote jam with squirrel urine reduction.

Thanks for your input. Are you telling me that a restaurant buys it cheese from the same source as the grocery store? Aren't there specialty cheese shops (especially in NYC) that sell only to restaurants?

Funny story. On our recent trip to france I bought about 5 lbs of cheese. I decided to put it into my checked bags as the temp would be lower. Certainly worried that the beagles would smell it at Dulles.

At the baggage return pre-customs at Dulles. Bag comes out. No need for dogs there, you could smell the cheese from 10 feet away. WOW. Luckily our customs agent had a cold!

On our last trip home from France, our customs agent told us that cheese was legal, but seized the cured meat that I had inadvertantly left in my carry-on. Some of the cheese had been vacuum packed for the trip, but the stuff we'd been snacking on on the plane was open and quite ripe. Our agent clearly was not a cheese-eater and the look on her face when the aroma hit was pricesless.

[syzygy8]

Actually I have ordered cheese from France and it was outstanding.

Fromages

I saw that website before. Thanks for letting me know it works. Now did you order from the French site or the US-legal site?

I wonder if they would send "the good stuff" if you ordered from the French site for US delivery and not from the specialized US site.