Upscale Supermarkets and Cheese Abuse

[hjshorter]

The Glover Park Bread & Circus (now Whole Foods) used to have excellent cheese. Maybe Jenkins visited while it was still under the old management?

Edit: Scott and I assumed that the good selection and knowledgable staff were due to the proximity to the French Chancery on R St. And of course this was before D&D opened.

Edited April 26, 2004 by hjshorter (log)

[HOOLIGAN]

Hooligan, I am new to this board, I had never heard of Nectar, (not a true foodie I guess) but I looked up your website, it sounds wonderful. How is your winelist? Corkage Fee? AND do you serve EPOISSE?

Odd & Challenging

$15

Oh Yeah

[morela]

I like the idea of the evil/spoiled people who would shove me with their carts and baskets to dip the free baby carrots into the jalapeño ranch dressing...

I... I...I like the idea of them and their cheese suffering together. "Go ahead buddy, push me for the cheese and steal my bike while you're at it."

Edited April 26, 2004 by morela (log)

[morela]

Let's get our party-oriented 'socks' out, everybody. A cheesy op-ed.

[jariggs]

Can anyone comment on the cheese at A. Litteri, in the warehouse district in D.C.? I'm not a cheese expert, but they seem to have a decent selection and they do cut to order and wrap in butcher paper. Being an Italian place, they specialize in Italian cheeses, but I know they have some from other European countries. Last time I checked, the Parm. Regg. was at least $.50 cheaper per pound then at whole foods.

[bbq4meanytime]

Can anyone comment on the cheese at A. Litteri, in the warehouse district in D.C.? I'm not a cheese expert, but they seem to have a decent selection and they do cut to order and wrap in butcher paper. Being an Italian place, they specialize in Italian cheeses, but I know they have some from other European countries. Last time I checked, the Parm. Regg. was at least $.50 cheaper per pound then at whole foods.

I'll vouch for their deli cheese and meats, friends and I have purchased both. Since I'm not a big cheese person, I can't tell you, for example, how their gorgonzola ranks, but we were happy with the cheese and deli meat for what it is. If we want artisan cheese, we'd buy from another place instead.

[syzygy8]

The folks at Eastern Market cut to order also, but I've never been thrilled with their selection. Only the older guy there seems to have some level of appropriate knowledge for the trade he's in, but frankly, I've found him so surly that I've never been able to see his knowledge in action.

[John W.]

Aaah. Back on track.

The worst part of ammoniated Reblochon is forgetting you put it in your trash can the night previous. As the sun rises on the apartment (and a mild hangover), well you get the picture. Even the cat stayed away.

If you buy smart and without a grocery list, you can do ok at Fresh Fields. You have to ask questions and prod and sniff. Any time I've asked them to cut anything to order they are generally happy to oblige. If you go needing something specific, you just might walk away disappointed, as in my "I want to eat Reblochon" mandate last night.

I was not present during said ammonia transaction, so I could not take my own advice.

Edited April 26, 2004 by John W. (log)

[DonRocks]

Dudes, I thought the Declaring Cheese In Customs posts and the Auchan Hypermarché posts were worthy of their own threads (though the political comments seemed a bit off-topic), and so they have been moved to the General Food Topics and France forums, respectively.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[maureen]

If you shop the Georgetown Whole Foods when Christopher (a woman) is there, and she knows you are a foodie because you've taken the time to speak with her about what's showing well and what you want, she'll pull special things out for you from the back, where she hides the good stuff from the hoi polloi.

In the very, very early days of Sutton Place, when it was New Mexico Ave. only, the cheese department was killer. They used to get a rectangular log of something called, I think, Belle Epoque that when ripe sloshed around inside the rind and was amazing. Things started going downhill when they started cutting into the log before it was ripe - when I protested I was told, well, customers complained about it being runny - when I suggested they suggest to those customers that they should purchase something else I was met with a shrug. That was the end.

[DonRocks]

(2 posts deleted per poster's request)

[raisab]

DonRocks,

Have you tried Wegmans cheese? I think it is pretty good. (see I am back on topic!) Also Salamanders in Middleburg yesterday had some nice cheeses at great prices! I guess the owner doesn't need the money?!

[JPW]

I haven't been too adventurous in my recent Whore Foods cheese shopping, but I've got to report that someone from Whole Paycheck is watching us.

In light of my constant rants cursing the produce section at Whole Foods in SS, I generally keep an eye on it while passing through on my way to the meat counter with its Niman Ranch pork tenderloin and properly thick (if expensive) NY Strips and other meat products and byproducts.

Lo and behold, what appears before my eyes but at least 5 different types of mushrooms in place of their usual 2! Oyster shrooms! Trumpets!

Could it be a coincidence? I think not!

Now, if those ventworms would only start stocking a full range of peppers !

Man, they might just be cooking with gas then!!!

[syzygy8]

If you shop the Georgetown Whole Foods when Christopher (a woman) is there, and she knows you are a foodie because you've taken the time to speak with her about what's showing well and what you want, she'll pull special things out for you from the back, where she hides the good stuff from the hoi polloi.

I have yet to find the Whole Foods where the person behind the cheese counter knows enough about the cheese they're selling. Even a question like "was this made with pasteurized milk?" can be a challenge and they have to run and look it up in the binder, or when I ask for a recommendation on something, their suggestions are so pedestrian that it seems they have no confidence in their customer to eat something "real" or no confidence in themselves to sell it.

I've only been to Wegman's counter once, and it was the end of the day so I didn't completely fault the counterfolks there. I'll have to try them again.

There's a woman at D&D (whose name I can't recall) who does a kickass job and really knows her stuff. In fact several of the folks there will test your tastebuds with some quality cheeses. Same thing at Arrowine.

[babka]

Does anyone in the region carry Cowgirl Creamery cheeses? Mr. Jared is responsible for a horrific long-term craving, and I can't find them.

[Busboy]

If you shop the Georgetown Whole Foods when Christopher (a woman) is there, and she knows you are a foodie because you've taken the time to speak with her about what's showing well and what you want, she'll pull special things out for you from the back, where she hides the good stuff from the hoi polloi.

I have yet to find the Whole Foods where the person behind the cheese counter knows enough about the cheese they're selling. Even a question like "was this made with pasteurized milk?" can be a challenge and they have to run and look it up in the binder, or when I ask for a recommendation on something, their suggestions are so pedestrian that it seems they have no confidence in their customer to eat something "real" or no confidence in themselves to sell it.

I've only been to Wegman's counter once, and it was the end of the day so I didn't completely fault the counterfolks there. I'll have to try them again.

There's a woman at D&D (whose name I can't recall) who does a kickass job and really knows her stuff. In fact several of the folks there will test your tastebuds with some quality cheeses. Same thing at Arrowine.

I dealt with her on Saturday. She seems to know her stuff and, for what it's worth, I have almost never had a problem with her cheeses.

[Lisa1349]

Does anyone in the region carry Cowgirl Creamery cheeses? Mr. Jared is responsible for a horrific long-term craving, and I can't find them.

You might try ordering direct, Cowgirl Creamery has such a large minimum order, many retailers don't carry it. You might seek out Lazy Lady Farm in Vermont, the cheeses are more readily available and wonderful.

Cheese prepacking is OK on rare occasion. For example, we sell 1/2 wheel a day in the store of Prima Donna, a 2 year old gouda. Every morning, we cut some and put it in the case. Cut pieces are rarely left for the next day. If there are some left, we cut it for samples. Normally, large retailers cut a whole wheel of things and throw them into inadequately cooled displays. I have seen this at Steven Jenkins' Fairway market in NY.

Another cause of poor cheese quality is markets buying large quantities of the same cheese to save money. Many retailers do use the same suppliers. Cheese is usually all in great condition when it arrived at the store. However, if the market bought 20 cases and sells less than 1 case a week of a particular cheese, quality will decline. Do not be frustrated if your favorite cheese place is out of something for a week, it means they don't have skids of it in storage.

I have a lot of customers making the trip to Philadelphia just for great cheese. I inform them we also do mail order, btu lost like the experience of the cheese counter.

[hjshorter]

If you buy smart and without a grocery list, you can do ok at Fresh Fields. You have to ask questions and prod and sniff. Any time I've asked them to cut anything to order they are generally happy to oblige.

Every Whole Foods/Fresh Fields that we've been to has been more than happy to cut things to order for us. They have even let me open packages if I want to inspect more closely.

Does D&D have crottin? I've been craving some funky goat cheese.

Babka, I have found Cowgirl creamery cheeses at Whole Foods in Gaithersburg, of all places.

[brioboy]

Marie Anne Cantin (12 Rue De Champ de Mars in the 7th) will vacuum pack your raw milk unpasturised cheese aged less than 60 days (that's practically all they sell) so that no beagle will bark. The proof to their superior packing came when $70 of various high-pong cheeses were checked in my baggage (to get the lower temperature) and then BA lost the bag for two days. You can imagine my dread. But not a whiff permeated the packaging until, in my mindless hope (and greed) I cut the bag to see if anything was salvageable. Two days on the tarmac in spring had not been kind. Now I just get the little St. Marcellin's at duty free (three euros and you don't have to pay for that stupid crock) and they are perfect after the seven or hours of travel - but this post is making me reconsider mail order.

[frogprince]

The folks at Eastern Market cut to order also, but I've never been thrilled with their selection. Only the older guy there seems to have some level of appropriate knowledge for the trade he's in, but frankly, I've found him so surly that I've never been able to see his knowledge in action.

i concur wholeheartedly. whilst not the best one can do for cheese, i'd go to eastern market for an above average selection, priced admirably and always always always they take a great hunk off (well for my orders...) of whatever specific wheel/sphere/oblong/triangular of milky creamy bliss you happen to order.

hooligan: neal's yard. brindisa. la fromagerie (islington). how i do miss them. nothing approaches them here.

donrocks: cheers for the mail order suggestions.

is classy cheese possible in dc in retail? well not by my personal european experiences, far from it, a distant cry moo bleat (what noise would a goat make?) baa stiffled by the ironic transparency of clingfilm; to see the poor fruits of human and bovine and ovis and capra ingenuity and brilliance suffocated to a most unflattering banal trite death, cryingmooingbleatingbaaing at the moribund moment: "but i deserve so much better! i had been so delectable! curse you whole/whore foods capitalists!" it makes me weep.

at the moment, i put my monetary faith in the cheese people at eastern market and to a lesser extent to litteri's. but then again i'm a local boy so perhaps i should get out more.

[DonRocks]

Don--isn't the real issue that customers are unknowing and cannot taste or detect the difference?

....

My own brush with Whole Foods willful ignorance toward their own ingredients was over bulk retail chocolate--and by that I mean the chocolate that wasn't packaged by the manufacturer.  I mean the broken chocolate pieces: how they'd break up the same big blocks of Valrhona, El Rey or Callebaut a pastry chef might use, wrap them in cling film and re-sell them.  In theory, a good thing for consumers, who wouldn't normally want to buy 11 pounds of a chocolate at a time like a pastry chef.  However, chocolate is very sensitive to temperature, air and light--and buy removing it from the foil wrapper or foil-lined plastic pouch of the manufacturer--and by re-wrapping it in flimsy cling film, which is very permeable, and by exposing it to the storelights all day and night--after time what the customer bought was usually dull, murky, dry, stale or even somewhat rancid

I feel embarrassingly qualified to answer your question: I know cheese much better than I know chocolate. A couple of times in the past, I've bought the broken blocks of Valrhona chocolate in the little clear plastic tub, and have enjoyed them as an occasional grab-and-munch, much like someone would walk by the M&M's jar and sneak an occasional handful.

Doubtless, by your standards, this chocolate was damaged, but I really had no clue, and admit to having enjoyed it.

But in my defense, I think bad cheese is just plain gross, and bad chocolate is sort of like bad sex. Well, actually, there's the really bad candle-wax chocolate, but that doesn't apply to this discussion.

Or does it?

Rocks.

[frogprince]

question: what did the smothered block of cheese sing wail prior to fatal asphyxiation?

answer:

"oh mother, i can feel the plastic falling over my head, and if i climb into a cold shelf, oh well. enough said. i know it's over - still i cling, i dont where else i will be sold. see the punter wants to take me, the knife wants to cut me, do you think you can help me? ... its so easy buy, those pre-shrink wrapped masses, its takes strength to be ripe and fresh. cheese is natural and real but not for you... oh mother i can feel the plastic falling over my head, oh mother i can feel the plastic falling over my head...

[drjane]

As a long-time Philadelphia now living in Annapolis, one of my biggest disappointments has been the lack of access to a good selection of cheese and "good" bread. In fact, I'm one of those folks Lisa Alois mentioned, those who make the pilgrimage to Philadelphia to buy cheese at regular intervals. In between visits I usually make do with odds and ends from Trader Joe's. It's also prepackaged, but the turnover is pretty high probably because the selection is somewhat limited. Prices are at least 20% less than Whole Foods, also. Some cheese are better than others--you have to expect a few failures in order to find the ones that work.

I bet DC could support a couple of outstanding cheese vendors. The ones in Philly (and there are a few) are always packed on weekends, and Philly is much smaller than DC. One would have to raise people's expectations. There must be enough Europeans in town at the various embassies etc to form the nucleus of a consistent clientele. If anyone decides to open a shop, let me know!!!

Dr. Jane

[hjshorter]

question: what did the smothered block of cheese sing wail prior to fatal asphyxiation?

answer:

"oh mother, i can feel the plastic falling over my head, and if i climb into a cold shelf, oh well. enough said. i know it's over - still i cling, i dont where else i will be sold. see the punter wants to take me, the knife wants to cut me, do you think you can help me? ... its so easy buy, those pre-shrink wrapped masses, its takes strength to be ripe and fresh. cheese is natural and real but not for you... oh mother i can feel the plastic falling over my head, oh mother i can feel the plastic falling over my head...

Thank you for the huge laugh. I needed it this morning!

[DCMark]

question: what did the smothered block of cheese sing wail prior to fatal asphyxiation?

answer:

"oh mother, i can feel the plastic falling over my head, and if i climb into a cold shelf, oh well. enough said. i know it's over - still i cling, i dont where else i will be sold. see the punter wants to take me, the knife wants to cut me, do you think you can help me? ... its so easy buy, those pre-shrink wrapped masses, its takes strength to be ripe and fresh. cheese is natural and real but not for you... oh mother i can feel the plastic falling over my head, oh mother i can feel the plastic falling over my head...

Cheeselifters of the world, unite and take over!