Iron Chef America (Part 1)

mikeycook · May 6, 2004

So, when are we going to see more episodes? Do we have to wait for a while or are they currently taping more? Seems like a lot of effort to have the four episodes, do all that promotion, then lose audience by not having more in the queue.

TrishCT · May 6, 2004

No trolling going on gang....just really pissed that undeserving "chefs" get unwarranted kudos.
My home cooking leans toward southwestern styles, and I do believe that I could do a better job than Flay. I am sorry if some of you think that I was trolling...that was not my intent, but as I already stated I was pretty pissed off. I wrote those comments after watching Flay "outcook" the Iron Chef......and I am still mad....Grrrrrrrrrr

I apologize for the trollinization, glad you aren't! :smile:

Did you read the post on here from Jason Perlow quoting Ted Allen, one of the judges? Ted said Flay/Morimoto did a great job and deserved to win. Jeffrey Steingarten also commented negatively about some of Batali/ Sakai's offerings on the show (remember the 5 minute abalone comment?).

As for Bobby's individual match v. Sakai san, it was reported by someone on one of these ICA threads that Sakai overcooked one of his trout dishes. There was a lot that we as viewers didn't get from the judges' comments on that battle, so your criticism that viewers couldn't understand why Flay won is a valid one.

TrishCT · May 6, 2004

So, when are we going to see more episodes? Do we have to wait for a while or are they currently taping more? Seems like a lot of effort to have the four episodes, do all that promotion, then lose audience by not having more in the queue.

Mikey, I believe Food Network planned this is a pilot for a series, depending on its success. I don't know what the ratings were...but I am guessing it did pretty well. A lot of people I know watched at least one of the battles, as opposed to the absolute zero I know who are watching "The Restaurant."

ExtraMSG · May 6, 2004

I'm hoping they don't try to do a weekly series so much as a maybe a set of specials every couple months. Make it more intriguing. Don't want them to turn it into Who Wants to Be a Millionaire.

Also, I wonder how much time people like Batali and Puck can devote to such a thing. And if it was less regular, it might be easier to get some of the most respected chefs, though I'm not sure if anyone like Trotter or Keller would ever be willing to do something like that. What do they have to prove? It can only hurt them. Whereas when Flay did ICJ, it could only help him. And Siegel was still up and coming. It might be cool to see one of Trotter's chefs or one of Keller's chefs compete, though, like you always had in ICJ. Although, the best battle I ever saw was the one with -- what was his name? Kandagawa? -- in the runup to the Flay battle where he shaved his head, did the fish headchop move, and cried when he won. That was absolutely fantastic. That guy lost so many times through his surrogates. If a Trotter, or a Keller, or a Ripert brought in one of their chefs and cheered them on, they'd get the publicity and praise, without the chance of personally being defeated. And their chef would get publicity, too.

A friend suggested that they have a cook off among chefs, sort of like an NCAA tournament, where you pair off a bunch of professional chefs and they go up against each other and the winners take on the iron chefs.

judiu · May 6, 2004

So, when are we going to see more episodes? Do we have to wait for a while or are they currently taping more? Seems like a lot of effort to have the four episodes, do all that promotion, then lose audience by not having more in the queue.

(whispering) sweeps week is coming...

sanguinella · May 7, 2004

I loved the Kandagawa episode! So, so much like a true battle, almost medieval in tone.

sanguinella · May 7, 2004

This harkens to an earlier post.

I determine the value of a dish based on flavour not flag colour, and I would think, that regardless of personal preferences as well as cultural influences, a true tasting judge would appreciate the savour and the skill of a dish even if isn't exactly catering to their bias. I would definitely expect that they would not consider unfamiliar tastes and textures disgusting. (Flashback to the raw fish response) Not everyone likes all of Picasso's works, but everyone sees the genius. Jingoism does not belong in the kitchen, nor anywhere for that matter. Pride in one's heritage and cuisine is one thing, but it should not blind one to the merits of other culinary traditions. The dish that best exalts and expresses the theme ingredient is what, ultimately, is the key, again, regardless of favorite flavour pairings. I only have one problem, I don't know of any judge that isn't somehow in some small way, biased. That's why there should be a multicultural panel of tasters. Hopefully, the individual preferences would negate themselves then, and fairness rule.

Edited May 7, 2004 by sanguinella (log)

ExtraMSG · May 8, 2004

So much of taste is based in familiarity and culture, though. A friend told me a story about going to Portugal and his Portuguese roommate having never seen cold cereal. My friend showed him how we eat it and the next day the roommate was putting Tang on his cereal. Disgusting to us, but the guy insisted it was better. He had no cultural/traditional reference. The tongue and nose play a big role and we largely share that physical context. But the brain plays a very big role as well.

markovitch · May 10, 2004

So i finally saw three of the four battles (batali v morimoto, puck v. moriomto and the two on two) and something strikes me as odd: the judges received the food from the american chefs better ecause, inall three cases, the american chefs were able to talk the judges into the food. I distinctly remember Puck, leaning on the table describing why his food was so cool, reminding them that there was a barely poached egg in the middle . Compare that to Moriomoto, whose english is so halting that they dub it.

this bothered me in ICJ too. it struck me as PR, not cuisine; the Food TV gurus, who are already good at selling cuisine, got a better chance to sell their food to the judges.

ExtraMSG · May 10, 2004

markovitch, food/taste is subjective enough, though, that if you did blind tastings, I don't know that it would make the result much more fair. Allowing the chefs to give context, like having an artist explain their work, can easily be seen as a good thing. Didn't the Morimoto and Sakai have interpreters?

chefsteban · May 10, 2004

No trolling going on gang....just really pissed that undeserving "chefs" get unwarranted kudos.
My home cooking leans toward southwestern styles, and I do believe that I could do a better job than Flay. I am sorry if some of you think that I was trolling...that was not my intent, but as I already stated I was pretty pissed off. I wrote those comments after watching Flay "outcook" the Iron Chef......and I am still mad....Grrrrrrrrrr
I apologize for the trollinization, glad you aren't!
Did you read the post on here from Jason Perlow quoting Ted Allen, one of the judges? Ted said Flay/Morimoto did a great job and deserved to win. Jeffrey Steingarten also commented negatively about some of Batali/ Sakai's offerings on the show (remember the 5 minute abalone comment?).
As for Bobby's individual match v. Sakai san, it was reported by someone on one of these ICA threads that Sakai overcooked one of his trout dishes. There was a lot that we as viewers didn't get from the judges' comments on that battle, so your criticism that viewers couldn't understand why Flay won is a valid one.

:smile:

Trish, I was not at all offended by your comments...after all this is a place for eveyone to voice their opinions......but thank you for the apology anywho. I do believe that the reporting by the commentator and the interaction between the tasters and the chefs could be greatly improved.......

your insightfulness into the ICA series is well taken.

Singapore · May 11, 2004

Is there any word as to whether this will become a regular series?

Chris Cognac · May 11, 2004

Is there any word as to whether this will become a regular series?

I don't know, I know that the ratings were off the chart, so it would be a good bet...but with all the talent involved having other commitments I could see it as a "special" a few times a year. If I find anything out I will post it....Maybe Alton Brown will know more...he is doing a Q and A starting the 24th here on e gullet.

mongo_jones · May 11, 2004

Not everyone likes all of Picasso's works, but everyone sees the genius.

do they? you don't think genius, in the art-gallery or the kitchen, might be culturally determined and recognized?

bsan · May 11, 2004

Didn't the Morimoto and Sakai have interpreters?

I knew Sakai had one, and I thought that Morimoto could speak English (but they dubbed his voice with some person).

Chris Cognac · May 11, 2004

Didn't the Morimoto and Sakai have interpreters?
I knew Sakai had one, and I thought that Morimoto could speak English (but they dubbed his voice with some person).

Sakai did have one...he had a full on entourage....Morimoto did not, I did find it hard to speak with him...You have to listen hard to understand what he is saying, he has a heavy accent

dankphishin · May 12, 2004

I determine the value of a dish based on flavour not flag colour, and I would think, that regardless of personal preferences as well as cultural influences, a true tasting judge would appreciate the savour and the skill of a dish even if isn't exactly catering to their bias. I would definitely expect that they would not consider unfamiliar tastes and textures disgusting. (Flashback to the raw fish response) Not everyone likes all of Picasso's works, but everyone sees the genius. Jingoism does not belong in the kitchen, nor anywhere for that matter. Pride in one's heritage and cuisine is one thing, but it should not blind one to the merits of other culinary traditions. The dish that best exalts and expresses the theme ingredient is what, ultimately, is the key, again, regardless of favorite flavour pairings. I only have one problem, I don't know of any judge that isn't somehow in some small way, biased. That's why there should be a multicultural panel of tasters. Hopefully, the individual preferences would negate themselves then, and fairness rule.

I think you're reading too much into this. This is Iron Chef America, and the previous serious was Iron Chef Japan. ICJ had only Japanese judges, so the scales were tipped in favor of the Japanese chefs. Also, the chefs know in advance who the judges will be, and I assume some sort of questionnaire is asked of the prospective judges. Remember, Iron Chef is as much a sporting event as it is a cooking show. I do agree that judges should not be unreceptive to ALL foods that would be considered "odd" by their culture, but some bias is acceptable. Personal preference again. The American chefs have an edge on Iron Chef America, and that's not jingoistic, just common sense. Check out the records of the Japanese Iron Chefs. I'd imagine some sort of armed revolt would occur if Flay's record approached Chen Keninichi's (Mind you, I don't like Flay, nor do I think he is close to being a good cook as Chen).

bsan · May 13, 2004

ICJ had only Japanese judges, so the scales were tipped in favor of the Japanese chefs. Also, the chefs know in advance who the judges will be, and I assume some sort of questionnaire is asked of the prospective judges.

Not really. During the France battles, they had Joel Robuchon and Pierre Troisgros. Some episodes had Julie Dreyfuss tasing, including Kandagawa versus Sakai where Kandagawa put whale tongue in one of his dishes...it didn't go too well with her. Tim and Nina Zagat also tasted twice during the show's run.

And with the statement about the chefs knowing who the judges are, Challenger Mitsuru Saitoh (the first challenger from major hotel) even went as far as to specifically get the taster's preferences!

dankphishin · May 14, 2004

And with the statement about the chefs knowing who the judges are, Challenger Mitsuru Saitoh (the first challenger from major hotel) even went as far as to specifically get the taster's preferences!

Wow, either this doesn't occur in the new show, or someone didn't do their homework when they saw Big Pussy was judging. Or didn't want to downgrade their cooking that much. Sorry, that guy's comments still irk me.

Daddy-A · May 31, 2004

OK so maybe we Canucks are a little slow ... but we just got to see the first episodes of ICA.

I'm not sure if it was covered in this thread, but the floor-guy was Kevin Brauch. He hosts a show on Food Network Canada called "The Thirsty Traveller." A really great show ... but how he landed the ICA gig I don't know ... he knows his booze, not his fois gras!

I've been watching IC for about 5 years now ... and was anxiously awaiting the new version. I DO NOT count William Shatner's version. He should have stuck to Priceline ...

Only comment on tonight's ICA ... where was the audience?? If there's one thing that a North American production could have improved on over the Japanese, it would have been the audience. Could you imagine Kitchen Stadium pounding out "We Well Rock You" or the look on Sakai's face as everyone started doing the wave? They missed a great opportunity there.

We get the next 2 episodes next Sunday ... I tried to avoid reading the results, so please avoid printing spoilers here if you can help it!

DA

doodle · June 2, 2004

as DaddyA said we Cnd fans just got to see ICA this past weekend.

I think Alton did the best he could under the conditions they gave him to work. Even I knew that was foie gras & I've only eaten it once. Maybe next week will be better

What bothered me most was the fact that the judges gave Flay higher points for plating than Sakai. IMO Flay's food looked like gussied-up pub grub. Sakai's showed his wonderful knife skills & was very artistically done. Flay had one theme. Hot & spicy. Sakai had a number of variations from cold to hot.

doodle

ScorchedPalate · August 25, 2004

Third-hand info off the Good Eats email list:

My Hubby asked [Alton Brown, at a book-signing] if he had any plans to host any more Iron Chef America shows & he said YES!! They're planning to do 10 NEW ONES & start filming in October!!!!"

Edited August 25, 2004 by ScorchedPalate (log)

gwilson · August 26, 2004

There was mention of this when Mario Batali did his Q&A also. I've been drinking, so I'm too lazy to look up the link. Sorry.

And they better fix the 'floor guy'. He didn't know squat.

-Greg

**Kevin72** · August 26, 2004

Yes, in fact it was my question to Mario about whether Molto Mario was still doing new episodes. MM is no more, but he will be involved in more ICA, and I think he said it starts filming in September.