Corkage Fees at Top NYC restaurants

[Beachfan]

In California, just about every restaurant has a corkage policy, which is a good thing.  Usually ฤ or less. Furthermore, they smile just as much when you bring a bottle as when you order off the list.

 Although many NYC restaurants used to turn icy when asked ("Sir, we Have a liquor license!"), others now have a policy.  Jean George,  was ์ (or was it ๠), very steep, but still ok if you bring the right wine (any policy is better than none).   Tasting Room has a great policy - buy one of the list, bring one in (and give a taste to the chef!).

Any top restaurants with corkage fees ษ or less?

[Preet Baba]

At the restaurants where I do a lot of eating the informal policy is that they will let a good customer bring a bottle and waive the corkage. I do not know of any restaurant in the City though that will charge a low corkage to a non repeat customer. Not at the highest levels of dining at least. In another thread it was discussed that New Jersey has many such restaurants many of which are excellent.

[Rosie]

It is illegal for a BYO in New Jersey to charge a corkage fee. If the restaurant has a liquor license they can charge a corkage fee. However, with the majority of restaurants in NJ being BYO why bother to bring a bottle to a licensed restaurant?

[861728]

All of the restaurants in the Union Square Hospitality Group charge ฤ per bottle corkage.

[Beachfan]

Are any restuarants  in the Union Square Hospitality Group in the upper echelons of fine dining?

[Preet Baba]

Union Square Hospitality Group equals Gramercy Tavern, Union Square Cafe, Eleven Madison Park and Tabla. I would put Gramercy Tavern or Tabla forward as a top echelon restaurant and the others are good despite a horribly meal at Eleven Madison Park that I hope was an anomaly.

Funny that this group would charge the most reasonable of corkages. They also happen to charge most reasonable wine prices. So it is the least likely candidate for bring your own. It doesn't happen often I would think.

[Bux]

I'd say that in NYC, on the whole, if you walk into a good restaurant with a bottle of wine, they'll look at you as if you were carrying a pizza in a box and asked for a table. Preet's probably correct that if you're a respected and important regular, they would not charge for a special bottle on a special occasion. I suspect they'ed rather not charge and let you know it's a favor, than to charge and set a precedent. I've never done it and would never think of doing it without calling ahead.

I've only eaten at 11 Madison Park, three times and two of those times I was with people known to the staff, but all of my meals were quite successful. I may have noticed some inconsistency, but the range was all in the very good to better level. Danny Meyer's restaurants not only seem to have excellent wine prices, but an interesting selection, but ฤ still seems like a bargain for corkage. The last time we were at 11 Madison Park, they had a very inexpensive Jurancon sec. Which turned out to be a great buy for those willing to drink the cheapest wine in the house.

To answer Beachfan, upper echelon is a bit subjective, but all of them are about the food. Gramercy Tavern is the flagship and the one that's most often named as the best American restaurant in NYC. The offerings may seem a bit simpler than those in the top French restaurants, but the cooking is as skilled and consistent. The service is also less formal or less European, but the staff is as knowledgeable as any in the city and as professional.  

[Beachfan]

That's one fine group, those Hospitality folks!

Gramercy is in an echelon of its own!  And I couldn't be happier about Tabla, loved it the first time, going back Saturday, I will bring a Domaine Schoffit Riesling Rangen de Thann Clos St. Theobald 1997 .  If you haven't tried Alsatian wine with Asian food, it's the only way to go (other than beer).

Turns out Zagat (the book, not online) has a list of Corkage Fee restaurants.The guide I have out of date (2000), but it lists Aquavit, Chanterelle, Gotham, Il ulino, Jean George, La Caravelle, Le Perigord, Nobu (and NND), Oceana, Picholine, Union Pacific as well as Danny Meyer's world.  They list prices but I won't repeat them since I know Jean George is about ำ more than they mention.

[Ruby]

Last Spring, for a birthday dinner for eight people, we all showed up at Ping's on Mott Street, looking like yentas, with two shopping bags holding about 10 bottles of wine. We were originally going to have dinner at Funky Broome but they said we couldn't have the wine there because they were awaiting a liquor license and told us "inspectors" from the New York Liquor Board might show up at any point. When I had made the reservation at Funky Broome, I'd mentioned we were bringing our own wine and they said it was okay but I guess things changed that day. So we walked over to Ping's which does have a liquor license.

Ping's allowed us to have our wine for a corkage fee of about Ű per bottle. The manager didn't act fazed at all and reacted as though it had happened before. The wines we brought were only about ฟ each but it was better to pay an additional corkage fee than to buy more wine at the restaurant at marked-up prices. Anyway, I just didn't want to clank out of Ping's with all that wine!

[Ruby]

Quote: from Beachfan on 5:54 am on Aug. 26, 2001

In California, just about every restaurant has a corkage policy, which is a good thing.  Usually ฤ or less. Furthermore, they smile just as much when you bring a bottle as when you order off the list.

 

In San Francisco and southern California, I noticed that restaurants allow and welcome you to bring your own wine. I attribute this partially to the fact that 1) some patrons of deluxe restaurants like The French Laundry also own their own vineyards and 2) so many tourists have visited the adult version of Disneyland; namely, Napa and Sonoma wine country and they want to pop open and sample the cases of wine they bought before they go back home.

[Bux]

I seem to recall reading that the French Laundry discouraged, or did not allow diners to bring their own bottle. Of course if you own Araujo or Colgin or something like that, you can probably get away with it as long as the restaurant continues get a share of your out put.

[SIPiller]

Chanterrelle in Tri-Beca has a corkage fee.  I've brought wine there but several years ago.  I do not know the amount but it is not inexpensive.  Of course, based on their very expensive wine list, it would be embarrasing to bring anything less than spectacular.

[Felonius]

I have also been wondering about this, as I have a hard time finding decent wines of drinkable vintages at NY restaurants without taking out a second mortgage.  I used to live in California, and was never discouraged from bringing a nice bottle to restaurants where I was a regular patron.  I realize that restaurants need to make money on wine, but I have hard time justifying markups of 200-300% at many restaurants in NYC.  I recently got stiffed for 贬 for a ำ bottle of recent vintage burgundy at one of NYC's more famous French restaurants.  

I usually end up eating at Tartine if I want to bring wine, as it is BYOB only.  I have also brought a bottle to Cafe Luxembourg.  They were nice on the phone about it, but seemed a bit miffed when I actually showed up with a bottle - even though I bought another rather expensive bottle off their list as well.  

A few weeks ago I went to Danube when it first re-opened.  I brought two bottles of Burgundy, mainly because it was a special occasion and I don't care for their list of red wines.  I offered to make a donation to their rescue relief effort in lieu of corkage (which they don't usually offer).  The manager accepted without any problem, and decanted and served my wines with the same care as if we had bought them.  We also bought somebottles of Austrian white wines off their list (which were fantastic).

I would like to know if anyone has tried to bring bottles to the other restaurants mentioned in this thread and in Zagat's.  I have the feeling that saying they have a corkage and actually treating you like a human being when bringing a bottle are two different things!  I'm not trying to save money by bringing in a cheap bottle, I just would like to have the chance to drink some of my wine collection with food a bit more sophisticated than that at Tartine, and I don't have time to cook at home these days.  However, I don't want to be treated with contempt by the staff for bringing my own wine.

I have grown very fond of the food at Cafe Boulud, and am wondering if I should approach them about bringing in some wine now that I am a more regular customer.   I would kill to have a great Chambolle-Musigny with their food!  Any thoughts?  

[Fat Guy]

Quote: from Felonius on 10:09 pm on Oct. 16, 2001

I'm not trying to save money by bringing in a cheap bottle, I just would like to have the chance to drink some of my wine collection with food a bit more sophisticated than that at Tartine, and I don't have time to cook at home these days.

If you were typical, I imagine there would be little resistance by the restaurant industry to the occasional customer bringing in the occasional bottle.

If you're a regular at a restaurant -- any restaurant, I guarantee it -- and you regularly drink good wine off the list, you simply will not be challenged or charged if you bring in your own bottle once in awhile. It is polite to call ahead and to bring the bottle into the restaurant in such a way as to avoid letting other customers witness the transaction, but it is routinely tolerated under the circumstances we're talking about here.

I also should take a moment to comment on Bux's analogy above, that bringing wine into a restaurant is like bringing pizza (this is one formulation of a point he has made in a couple of places). I don't see wine as analogous to food prepared in the restaurant's kitchen. Wine is a product made entirely off premises and kept in a sealed environment until the moment the cork is removed. True, the very best restaurants devote significant efforts to building wine lists that flatter their cuisines, but it is commonplace for private collectors to have bottles that are both appropriate for the restaurant's cuisine and not on the restaurant's list. I see nothing wrong with a customer asking to be allowed to enjoy such a bottle in the restaurant, and I think the restaurant's staff would be crazy to deny the request on epicurean grounds. I see it purely as an economic issue. Without wine sales, most restaurants would go out of business or need to charge substantially more for their food. Thus a corkage fee is a reasonable solution, one that should be applied to some customers and not to others. Restaurants are very good at treating different customers differently without the word getting out. This is a situation where such conduct is eminently sensible.

(Edited by Fat Guy at 10:45 pm on Oct. 16, 2001)

[robert brown]

Felonious, welcome aboard. It looks like you're a real die-hard who's going to put up some great posts. Just curious, though: Do you have a last name?

Okay, now for the matter at hand. After much contemplation and hesitation, I've decided to reveal my secret about getting ahead in the world of corkage. It's a move that works best when you're trying to establish a corkage foothold in a restaurant that you plan to eat at with some frequency, and it may hasten the day when you can bring in your wine for free. Also, I would only do this at restaurants whose corkage fee does not exceed ษ. The secret then is: Let the person who serves you your wine drink some.

Call me BYOB instead of Robert.

[Fat Guy]

Just to clarify: Most restaurants won't let a staff member drink while on duty, so the way to handle this is to leave a portion of your bottle unconsumed and to say, "I hope you'll enjoy this later," or equivalent words, to your server, or the sommelier, or whomever appears to be the key person in the decisionmaking hierarchy.

[Ruby]

I dunno, unless one is such a wine connoisseur and has such a fabulous wine collection, methinks it would be 'uncomfortable' to bring wine to a swanky gourmet restaurant in New York. Personally, I don't like asking for 'favors' because this puts the restaurant personnel in charge of making a decision for me. Can I or can't I bring a bottle or two of wine? I guess I'm just too controlling to leave that up to a restaurant manager. I have no qualms about BYOB if the place doesn't have a liquor license but this is different.

Restaurants don't even like it when you bring your own birthday cake for a large party as they'd rather charge you Ů-10 for dessert. Guess it's all about profit and perhaps a point of pride with the establishment. I can understand that too.

[Ruby]

P.S. I forgot to add "Charge you Ů-10 EACH for dessert.

[Fat Guy]

I'm a little more sympathetic to opposition to a brought-in birthday cake. There, you're bringing outside food into a restaurant. It just seems like more of an affront.

You don't have to have a fabulous wine collection to have one special bottle, and you don't have to be royalty to be a regular at a high-quality restaurant. My wine collection is little-league compared to that of the average collector, but a couple of times a year I stumble across a special bottle for one reason or another. For example, last year when I visited Argyle winery I was able to get a bottle of the very first sparkling wine Argyle had ever produced. It felt appropriate, to me, to enjoy that bottle at a restaurant where I was a regular (meaning I had dined there maybe five times and knew the names of the key people, and more importantly they knew me). And the wine director I think very much appreciated being able to taste a wine that he'd never have been able to obtain otherwise.

[Felonius]

Robert - thanks for the welcome aboard.  I have been a longtime fan of the Fat-Guy site but never ventured over to this board until yesterday.  It's a great resource I should have tapped into earlier!<p>I second your thought on sharing with the server.   This is something I always offer when I bring wine to a restaurant, and I usually offer a taste to both the waiter/waitress and the sommelier.  I do this as much for the pleasure of sharing a love for wine, as I do to get in their good graces (although that helps too).   <p>This attitude is something I really miss from my days living in California.  More often than not in fine restaurants in CA, I found that the owners and staff really understood and enjoyed wine, and were eager to share this interest with their customers.  The markups were generally much lower than on the East Coast, and I got the sense that restauranteurs were encouraging customers to try new wines or perhaps go for something more special than they had in the past.  Though many restaurants advertised a corkage fee, it was seldom charged, and I can't remember ever being snubbed for bringing a bottle.  Usually, my arrival with something special would lead to an enthusiastic discussion with the waitstaff, and smiles all around as we enjoyed the winemaker's art.   <p>I have never experienced this in Manhattan.  Instead I am forced to pay 2 to 4x markup for immature wines from unimaginative lists (there are notable exceptions such as Babbo).  Some of the high end restaurants such as Daniel have excellent lists, but alas I am neither a tycoon nor a celebrity and can't dole out megabucks for a bottle of wine on a regular basis.  Even if I could, I feel it's a bit obscene to be throwing ? at a bottle of wine, even more so when that bottle may be bought retail for ? or less.   It's sort of a combination of highway robbery and conspicuous consumption at its worst.  <p>All I want to do is enjoy great wines with great food, and to share this enjoyment with others in a low-key way.  Any suggestions from other folks here on places this might happen in Manhattan would be greatly appreciated.

[robert brown]

Steven, I have yet to encounter a waiter/waitress or sommelier refuse a taste of a wine I have brought with me, but I'm not talking about a lot of restaurants. What you said, however, is certainly true. I think that offering your wine works best in second-tier and neighborhood restaurants. I have the impression that Italian restaurants are the toughest about bringing your own.

[Fat Guy]

Interesting. I've only ever brought wine to high-end places, and in those I've never seen a server (other than the sommelier) taste a wine in public view. I know of a couple of restaurants where drinking during the shift is totally forbidden -- whether in public view or not -- so all tastes are reserved until after service. Then again, I've brought maybe ten bottles of wine to restaurants in my entire life, so my data pool is shallow.

[Felonius]

I've brought wines to both neighborhood and high-end restaurants.  From my experience in the high-end places, if anyone tastes the wine in the dining room it is usually the sommelier.  This was the case at Danube ("The" Danube?) a few weeks ago.  The sommelier who had decanted the wines brought over a glass and tasted at our table after we had finished our main course.  This was done at my insistence, and no one at the table felt it was inappropriate.  Sommeliers at fine restaurants will often taste the wines they have decanted, to ensure that the bottle is not "off" before serving the customer, so I don't see anything too unusual about this.  As for the wait staff, this is a more delicate issue.  I usually wait until the latter part of the meal, thank them for such fine service, and suggest that they take the remaining wine back to the kitchen for anyone who might like to try it.  This is a bit tricky as one must ensure that A) the wine has not been completely poured during dinner, and B) there is enough wine left to allow for a decent taste without getting to the sediment or dregs if it's an older red wine.

I can't remember having anyone ever refuse such an offer, and usually the waiter or waitress will return later with a sly smile and thank me in an unobtrusive fashion.  I will sometimes also do this if I have ordered a particularly interesting or special wine off the restaurant's list.  While the sommelier has probably tried the wine, I doubt the wait staff has, so I'll offer a bit to them.  I believe it is a useful oppurtunity for them to expand their knowledge of wines, and to get a taste of the magic they are working hard to provide for customers.

(Edited by Felonius at 1:59 pm on Oct. 17, 2001)

[mikec]

It has been my experience that bringing your own wine to a restaurant in NYC that allows corkage (even if it's expensive corkage) usually results in an uncomfortable situation.  When I do it, I call ahead to confirm that it's okay.  However, once I get to the restaurant I'm usually dealing with someone else.  This person, be it the waiter, maitre 'd, etc. usually seems shocked that you brought your own wine  resulting in an uncomfortable situation.  When I go out to eat I want to relax and enjoy myself.  I don't want to go through a stressful scene regarding the corkage policy, who I spoke with to get permission, etc.

FWIW, the only places in NYC that I've been to without any corkage hasle are the Danny Meyer run restaurants.  But that shouldn't surprise anyone.

I've recently moved to NJ.  While I miss the NYC restaurant scene tremendously, I certainly enjoy the preponderance of BYO friendly places in NJ.

[Fat Guy]

Felonious: It makes a lot of sense for a sommelier to nose and taste a wine before serving it, but in my experience dining out in New York City I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times a sommelier has tasted or even nosed my wine before pouring -- whether or not a decanter was involved. Even in France, where the practice of tasting customers' wines is more common, my experience has been that it's quite a rare occurrence. But yes, I would agree that in the majority of restaurants where I'm aware of the policy, a manager (the sommelier or beverage director is usually part of the management team, though not always) is permitted to taste a wine in the dining room but members of the waitstaff are not.

Mikec: Is this your first post here? If so, welcome. I too seek to avoid conflict and uncomfortable situations, yet if a restaurant's authorized representative tells me one thing on the phone and someone at the restaurant tells me another thing, I haven't got the slightest hint of a misgiving about making a stink. That sort of behavior is unacceptable, and I'd rather not let a restaurant dictate my conduct through its bad behavior. In addition, needless to say, the whole corkage issue shouldn't be a problem anyplace where you're a regular.