Masa and Bar Masa

[docsconz]

I have to admit that before Bourdain's review I had written Masa off as simply being too expensive. It now seems necessary.

[slkinsey]

I hope he knows what he's done here... He's going to wake up next to a severed horse's head if a bunch of eGulleters drop 450 bucks a person at Masa and aren't transported into flights of gustatory ecstasy.

[dr_memory]

I hope he knows what he's done here... He's going to wake up next to a severed horse's head if a bunch of eGulleters drop 450 bucks a person at Masa and aren't transported into flights of gustatory ecstasy.

This is Bourdain. He'd just eat it. :)

[tanabutler]

This is Bourdain.  He'd just eat it. :)

Where do I send the bill for my new keyboard? And adenoids?

[johnnycab]

Tony - I remember reading somewhere that they fly in the fish from Japan. If so - how truly fresh can the fish be? You wrote in A Cook's Tour about eating toro cut straight out of a freshly caught fish. How does or can this compare?

[SobaAddict70]

I won't speak for Tony, but given the fact that your experience at Masa is akin to studying yoga or music or ____________ from the hands of a living master, I somehow don't think that the QUALITY of the fish is a viable issue (and even if in the infintesmally small chance that it was, it'd be an EXTREMELY minor issue at worst).

Obviously, it won't be as fresh as from a fish that was just swimming seconds before. There are so many other aspects of the entire experience that quibbling on the "freshness factor" is a distraction.

Regards,

Soba

[tanabutler]

It didn't sound like quibbling to me. It sounded like an honest and good question, but I can see that the use of the phrase "truly fresh" might be a hook (pardon the pun) for some readers.

[johnnycab]

I'm not trying to be a heathen here, and I do understand that there's aspects to the food preparation that I have no inkling of, but nonetheless, since Tony points out that Masa is pretty much only focused on the ingredients, letting them speak for themselves, I do find it curious that he's willing to use fish that's been say, around a day old (door-to-door). I'm not quibbling here - I'm really trying to satisfy my curiosity (and slightly skeptical). And with obsessives like Keller and Masa, it would seem to me that having the absolutely freshest ingredients would be a really important issue.

Let's say we're talking about sashimi for a minute. Apart from going to the market (or purveyor) and getting what he considers the freshest fish, is there something a master sushi chef does to the fish which makes it better? I know he can cut it, perhaps improve texture and flavor in a particular bite-sized piece.

In a blind taste test, would a connoisseur choose Masa's toro over freshly caught? My impression from reading Tony's book is that the freshly caught would have been bought sometime in the morning in some fish market in Japan and served later that day.

And would Masa's toro sashimi really be any better than that of a high-end sushi restaurant in Japan? Or LA? Which have the advantage of fresher fish, especially if you go at lunchtime.

[SobaAddict70]

I'm not trying to be a heathen here, and I do understand that there's aspects to the food preparation that I have no inkling of, but nonetheless, since Tony points out that Masa is pretty much only focused on the ingredients, letting them speak for themselves, I do find it curious that he's willing to use fish that's been say, around a day old (door-to-door). I'm not quibbling here - I'm really trying to satisfy my curiosity (and slightly skeptical). And with obsessives like Keller and Masa, it would seem to me that having the absolutely freshest ingredients would be a really important issue.

Let's say we're talking about sashimi for a minute. Apart from going to the market (or purveyor) and getting what he considers the freshest fish, is there something a master sushi chef does to the fish which makes it better? I know he can cut it, perhaps improve texture and flavor in a particular bite-sized piece.

In a blind taste test, would a connoisseur choose Masa's toro over freshly caught? My impression from reading Tony's book is that the freshly caught would have been bought sometime in the morning in some fish market in Japan and served later that day.

And would Masa's toro sashimi really be any better than that of a high-end sushi restaurant in Japan? Or LA? Which have the advantage of fresher fish, especially if you go at lunchtime.

Sounds like you have to go in order to satisfy your curiosity.

There are a number of variables that need to be taken into consideration in order to truly make a valid analysis of the Masa experience. (And you can take my input fwiw, given that I've not yet been there. However, to paraphrase Justice Frankfurter, a culinary convert knows perfection when he sees it.)

For instance, as in ADNY, the table is yours for the evening. Secondly, practically all of the dishes and implements have been designed by him. Thirdly, consider that dining at Masa is probably the equivalent of dining at Trio except that you're being personally served by the chef every single instance that you visit. (Not many chefs can make that statement.)

In my opinion, we can debate ad infinitum whether the freshness issue adds to or detracts from the Masa experience. Let's face it, freshness will always be an argument given that a fish begins degrading the moment it's taken out of its element. I suppose if you really wanted a truly fresh specimen, you gotta do as Gollum says, "eat it when it's raw and wrrrrri-gggling!"

Thomas Keller, the chef at Per Se at the Time Warner Center and the fabled French Laundry in the Napa Valley, who invited Mr. Takayama to join him here, is a devoted fan of his restaurant.

"It's one of those experiences where if you have to ask how much you probably shouldn't go," Mr. Keller said. "The food is astounding but that's only part of it. Masa brings you into his world and it's hard to put a price on something like that. You're feeling the sushi bar, almost a satiny kind of feeling, you're watching when he grills a matsutake mushroom in front of you and he puts parchment on top, the paper turns colors, he lifts it and you see a beautiful silhouette. It's almost like art. But some people will go and not be ready for it, not understand it. He's very specific. It's like going to see a great performer."

He's not only impressed Tony but also Chef Keller, so that's good enough for me.

Soba

[Gary Tanigawa]

I believe you're paraphrasing Justice Potter Stewart

[bourdain]

Best quality fish I've ever experienced. If he can't get it as fresh as he likes? He doesn't serve it. (He had no uni, for instance).

I don't know where or how he gets his tuna--but it was far, far superior to anything I've ever even seen.

[SG-]

This site sucks!!!! Looks like I'm going to spend $900 for dinner!!! If I end up filing for bankruptcy I'm gonna sue this site!!!!

[Mayhaw Man]

As someone who can pretty regularly have tuna (mostly yellowfin, less often black fin) that is literally "still dripping" with salt water I can honestly tell you that yes there is a difference in the texture and taste of fish that is cut and consumed on the back of the boat (it's fun to eat like that-everyone standing around with strips of sashimi and bloody hands standing over the carcass of a frshly caught tuna ) and fish that has been cut, refrigerated, and is sold the next morning and served that evening (24 hours). I actually prefer the fish that has been refrigerated as the texture is more pleasing to bite and the flavors that develop with the slight aging of the fish are a good thing.

Everyday tuna caught in South Louisiana is gutted, washed, packed in these cool coffins with chipped ice (flakes-they only use one specific kind of ice) and shipped out of Louis Armstrong International Airport for Tokyo. This fish, they tell me, is in that cool giant fish market and being sold many time within 24 hours of being caught.

My point here is not about Louisiana Seafood (although I highly reccomend it ), it is about the availability of fresh fish in the world today. I can pretty much assume that some one living in NY, London, Paris, Tokyo, Dubuque, and San Berdoo can get anything that he wants any time that he wants it- fresh, well packed, delivered from the dock to the sushi joint - as long as he is willing to write what can be a very large check. I see no reason that Wasa is not serving unbelievably fresh fish as I am sure he has the resources and the checkbook to get it. It is a pretty good bet that the man is serving the best he can get and it is as good or better than anyone else in the city is handling right now (according to these and other reports). Anything inside 24 hours is fresh. Period. Sure it is going to start deteriorating as soon as it leaves the water, but as long as it is well treated, it won't suffer much for the first twenty four hours-at least.

I hope that I get the opportunity to find out for myself some time this summer.

Edited for bad typing and even worse spelling

[slkinsey]

And would Masa's toro sashimi really be any better than that of a high-end sushi restaurant in Japan? Or LA? Which have the advantage of fresher fish, especially if you go at lunchtime.

I am given to understand that top grade sushi/sashimi grade tuna is better slightly aged (we're talking a day or two here). This is no doubt true with respect to other kinds of fish as well. When one is considering the ingredients at a place like Masa, which is clearly getting the best of the best, I think it is a given that all the fish will be at optimal freshness. Then, the handling of the fish, as well as its provenance, etc., becomes much more important.

[edsel]

I can pretty much assume that some one living in NY, London, Paris, Tokyo, Dubuque, and San Berdoo can get anything that he wants any time that he wants it- fresh, well packed, delivered from the dock to the sushi joint - as long as he is willing to write what can be a very large check. I see no reason that Masa is not serving unbelievably fresh fish as I am sure he has the resources and the checkbook to get it. It is a pretty good bet that the man is serving the best he can get and it is as good or better than anyone else in the city is handling right now (according to these and other reports). Anything inside 24 hours is fresh. Period.

Jeffrey Steingarten wrote about his obsessive pursuit of fresh tuna in "Toro! Toro! Toro!", reprinted in The Man Who Ate Everything. He wound up on a charter boat off the Carolina coast. After catching a yellowfin tuna he requested that the otoro be handled with special care. The charter operator and the other sport fishermen found this highly amusing, since they regarded the belly meat just behind the gills (otoro to us) as too fatty to eat. They routinely threw it to the dogs on the pier!

If Masa buys his tuna from Tsukiji (as some have suggested) I wonder if it has made a near round-trip to get to New York. It's my understanding that much of the tuna sold in Tokyo originates off of the North American coast. Maybe Masa should contact those Carolina charter operators.

[Mayhaw Man]

As I mentioned above-much of the tuna (yellowfin and blackfin), bonita, lemon fish (ling), shrimp, blue crabs, speckeled trout, redfish, etc. that is offloaded after a nights fishing in the Gulf of Mexico is packed and shipped to Tokyo by flights that are specifically designed for this purpose. New Orleans Int. is one of the largest fresh seafood exporters in the U.S.

Also, almost all fish shipped to Japan from New Orleans is on the hoof (or in the case of crabs-live) meaning that it has been gutted and rinsed, but EVERYTHING else is left in tact, as that is how the buyers seem to prefer it.

It is entirely possible that some of the seafood being sold in Sushi places here has made the round trip.

[SobaAddict70]

There is not much in the way of à la carte ordering of fish at Bar Masa, but a stunning presentation of vibrant, pristine sushi "canapés" for $28 — on one recent evening, diced tuna tartare, yellowtail with black truffles, scallops with sweet shrimp, and diced salmon tartare — takes the notion of sushi deluxe to an entirely new and welcome level. Sushi and sashimi tasting menus, at $85, can take it even higher, depending on what fish are on ice for the evening — ask.

Bar Masa (Sam Sifton) (from this weekend's DIGEST update. You may have to scroll down for the appropriate link.)

Interesting that price points, usually a staple of the $25 and Under column, would be mentioned no less than four times in the space of two paragraphs in this Diner's Journal.

It's almost as if the Times is trying to make a point....

[Jinmyo]

I've recently read reports elsewhere that Masa (the restaurant) is turning out to be disappointing for some long-time Ginza/Masa (the chef) fans.

The meals are primarily sushi, excellent sushi but not as creative as the cooked dishs preceeding the sushi at Ginza were. Also that service is awkward. And that every diner is getting the same dishes instead of the indivualized approach that Masa (the chef) is famous for.

[phaelon56]

worth dragging a rusty blade across your best friend's throat

That review really makes me want to go but I'll have major problems explaining this to my best friend's family.

[Jinmyo]

Yes, bourdain's review is exciting.

But he eats iguana and scorpion and fried frogskin and stuff.

[phaelon56]

But he eats iguana and scorpion and fried frogskin and stuff.

.... and your point is....?

I'll try most things once but I've seen Bourdain eat a few that even I wouldnt dream of going near. That said... his description of the Masa experience is enough to make me want to pony up the cash and do it - I typically spend far less money in a month on food and dining than he's talking about for one meal but I'm still ready to do it.

[herbacidal]

Yes, bourdain's review is exciting.

But he eats iguana and scorpion and fried frogskin and stuff.

Your problem being???

I'll try anything once. I think the only thing I've heard of thus far that I'd decline would be the Thai monkey brain.

[mikeyrad]

You know, I think I have an idea for Mr. Bourdain's next Food Network series: $400 -- no make that $1000 (Or More) A Day. Yes, it's the upscale version of Rachael Ray's show. Tony Bourdain tours the world and shows you where to go if you have an unlimited budget and want to eat the best of the best. Even more important, he explains what makes a great restaurant great.

And of course, if Mr. Bourdain ever needs a researcher or dining companion, I gladly volunteer my services.

Edited April 2, 2004 by mikeyrad (log)

[Cpalms]

You know, I think I have an idea for Mr. Bourdain's next Food Network series: $400 -- no make that $1000 (Or More) A Day.  Yes, it's the upscale version of Rachael Ray's show.  Tony Bourdain tours the world and shows you where to go if you have an unlimited budget and want to eat the best of the best.  Even more important, he explains what makes a great restaurant great.

And of course, if Mr. Bourdain ever needs a researcher or dining companion, I gladly volunteer my services.

stopped by bar masa Tuesday... after just having read bourdain's report it looks like I should saved my money and had the real deal. the sushi was very good, fresh but uninspired. It was kind like the sushi you have at nobu (back when nobu had the goods) after you had his wonderful creations the sushi was anticlimatic.... one thing that pissed me off was on the menu outside bar masa said the sushi tasting was $50 and when we sat down we were informed it was $85 (a little bait and switch)...sushi tasting (16 standard pieces), beef skewers, corn fritters, a tuna roll, grapefruit granite (a highlight)and bottle of water with tip $200

a couple notes a tunas....i've spent good deal of time fishing the northeast canyons for pelagic fish and inshore for bluefins and have sold bluefins and bigeyes to japanese fish buyers (something i'm not proud of)....all tuna when prepared properly for sushi needs to be cured aleast overnight. The filaments in the flesh need to breakdown before it has the proper mouth feel. Bluefins are bought on consignment, blast frozen and fedexeed to japan for consumption. the fish o-toro comes from are bluefins over 300 pounds with highest fat content that killed quickly, bleed properly and iced properly. the fish buyers do the testing you saw the guys at the japanese fish market do on bourdains show. They are refered to as giants. They are considered to be by many the be one of the most difficult and prized sportfish to catch due to their persnickety nature and insane strength. Quite often their hearts explode during the fight. You have no idea of the strength of these creatures unless you witness it yourself Giants no longer exist for whatever reason in NJ and very rarely in montauk. Up until the late sixties (then called horse mackeral) they were extremely abudant in our waters but had no commercial value. The NJ record is over 1000 pounds and the world record over 1400 pounds. Most commercially sold giants are caught from block island to nova scotia, glouster (sp) probably having the best fishery

the atlantic bluefin is the most regulated animal in the world. the season opens and closes at the whim of fisheries managers, sometimes even in the middle of the day.... To the great consternation of fisherman. the fish are highly migratory and the around the northeast between june and october with the season closed often. There is a recently discovered winter fishery of north carolina where no commercial fish are allowed to be sold. these fish are skinny (low fat content). The bahamas once had a great fishery which is almost non existant these days

Fisherman think the bluefin stocks are healthy, enviromentalists think the bluefin should be put on the endangered species list, read the book song for the blue ocean, Safina and decide for yourself.

If you want fresh tuna virtually no restaurant can get...go the montauk marine basin or brielle yacht club(nj) some august or september afternoon and buy fish directly from the boats...usually you will have yellowfins and longfins (albacore) but never bluefins with bigeyes of you lucky...if the bite is on, most boats will have more tuna than they no what to do with it. make an offer

here are some pics that I found (not me) Bluefin Photos

Note:edited to create photo hyperlink

Edited April 3, 2004 by phaelon56 (log)

[Jinmyo]

Yes, bourdain's review is exciting.

But he eats iguana and scorpion and fried frogskin and stuff.

Your problem being???

I'll try anything once. I think the only thing I've heard of thus far that I'd decline would be the Thai monkey brain.

Ha ha.

No problem. I just threw that in.

My point was just that bourdain's enthusiasm aside, Masa (the restaurant) seems not to be fullfilling the expectations of those who know him (Masa) from Ginza and that his (Masa's) statements about what Masa (the restaurant) will be are falling short. For example, the individualized experience.

Not that I know myself.

I'm just trying to be helpful to the discussion.

What about Viet monkey brain then?