Yogurt-making @ home

[torakris]

So you don't have to heat the milk at all beforehand?

nope!

It couldn't get any simpler.

[Fat Guy]

It could get simpler: you could wrap it in a sweater, like FoodMan does, instead of in that high-tech contraption.

[torakris]

It could get simpler: you could wrap it in a sweater, like FoodMan does, instead of in that high-tech contraption.

yes, but he has to boil his first.

[Fat Guy]

Boiling a sweater is easy; it's cleaning the pot afterwards that's hard.

[balmagowry]

It could get simpler: you could wrap it in a sweater, like FoodMan does, instead of in that high-tech contraption.

yes, but he has to boil his first.

Which, given the typical rate of wool shrinkage, must mean he goes through an awful lot of sweaters.

[Edit: Waaaah! Fat Guy beat me to it!]

Most fortuitously, just last night I started my own yogurt experiment, for the first time since my old Salton set went AWOL about 25 years ago - it isn't looking any too successful thus far, so I was awfully glad to see this thread rise to the surface today. At the moment I have mine in a big Pyrex bowl in the oven (thanks to the well-loved pilot light), but I have a nasty feeling it ain't goin' nowhere, and that I'll be starting again from scratch, armed with the accumulated wisdom found here.

I started out from a recipe found on the web a while back (sorry, haven't been able to retrace it - probably not a good sign...). Used Axelrod NF as starter, because I happened to have a bit handy - wasn't sure whether or not to include the whey which had separated in the container, so I didn't; I have a feeling this was a mistake. Scalded the milk, cooled it down to 110, gently stirred in the yogurt (my notes said not to stir much for fear of bruising the cultures - but there's plenty of evidence here to suggest that's nonsense). Covered, left in warm place - top of same stove, which is well protected from drafts.

Next morning - no discernible change. Phooey. Based on the fact that the starter yogurt was still lying lumpenly on the bottom, I cleverly deduced that I should indeed have whisked it in. With nothing to lose but time, I did then whisk it in, and then put it in the pilot-lit oven. No idea whether it's too late to make a difference - but time will show, I guess.

Gut feeling: the lack of whey is likeliest real culprit. In which case what I did to it today will make no difference whatsoever.

I used skim milk, not because I care about the fat level but because I like the tart flavor of non-fat yogurt. But I think I'll try the next batch with maybe 1% - and I can pick up some Brown Cow for starter. Can't decide whether to go ahead and try the dry milk trick as well or to be a little more scientific and wait for the next batch. Well - I shall wait and see what if anything this one does before I commit. Tomorrow is another day....

Edited March 24, 2004 by balmagowry (log)

[helenjp]

use a warmer box that takes one carton of milk, as is

Sorry not to have responded -- flu and exam marking hit, and then I forgot...

My yogurt maker works on the same principle as Torakris' does, with a more solid box. It's National brand (Panasonic in the US???) but I couldn't find it in English under that name. Here's another very similar yogurt maker -- scroll well down for the "Miracle "In the Carton" Yogurt Maker Model ME72" ( "M" is often the first letter in National product codes, so maybe it is the same brand? Who knows?).

http://www.fernsnutrition.com/hmyogurt.html

I have used a thermos to make yogurt. This plug-in type is definitely more consistent, especially in winter.

I recommend a Bulgarian culture such as the New England Cheesemaking place sells. I use a Bulgarian culture here, and it produces a thick yogurt that is tasty but not over sour.

We did make Kefir for a couple of years. Now THAT is sour...

[Marmish]

I finished some yogurt yesterday following my Greek friend's mother's directions. It took me awhile to figure them out - translation issues, as my friend does not cook - but I like the results.

Basically, heat 1 gallon milk (2% or whole) to 180 or so degrees. Cool to 120-130 degrees and stir in 1 cup yogurt (I use Dannon plain) that has been thinned with a little water and strained.

Cover tightly, wrap in a towel and keep warm for 7 hours (I put it in a very large pyrex bowl with lid, warm the oven beforehand, and leave the light on).

Skim off the water with paper towels and refrigerate. Keep skimming the water off the top with paper towels. (I found the paper towel business a bit messy, so I lined a strainer with a paper towel and drained off the liquid for an hour or so instead.)

[Fat Guy]

So far so good: the stuff I just took out of the machine and put into the refrigerator looks and smells like yogurt. Official tasting tomorrow morning.

[balmagowry]

At the moment I have mine in a big Pyrex bowl in the oven (thanks to the well-loved pilot light), but I have a nasty feeling it ain't goin' nowhere, and that I'll be starting again from scratch, armed with the accumulated wisdom found here.

Well, I'll be damned.

Had to take the bowl out again last night so I could use the oven. Left it in warm spot on top of stove overnight (NOT over oven while it was on or cooling). This morning an exploratory finger produced no joy - ditto a taste of what was on the finger. With (again) nothing to lose, I then plunged a hand to bottom of bowl. Found starter yogurt at bottom, still lying lumpen. Wanted to believe there was a bit more of it than formerly, but sternly controlled that hope as improbable. Well, what the hell, I was going to be out for most of the day, so I shoved the bowl back in the oven and took off.

Pulled the bowl out this evening, and... damned if it wasn't full of yogurt! Texture looked and felt about right, far as I could tell. Some whey around the edges, not an inordinate amount. Didn't want to disturb the new curd yet, but tasted the whey and it tasted like - whey. So far so good. Shoved bowl into fridge and sat back full of wonder.

So now, oy do I have questions! because I certainly intend to keep doing this, but will be even happier about it if I can get it to work in 12 hours rather than 48.

I can't remember how specific I've been about describing the process - ingredients, amounts, temperatures, etc. But maybe one of you long-running yogurt pros can cut to the chase and tell me whether you can name any one factor that would be likeliest to slow the process so dramatically. Ah, hell with it, might as well run through it all again. Scalded 1/2 gallon skim (no-fat) milk; cooled it to about 105F; poured it into Pyrex bowl; poured a little into container of starter yogurt & stirred it in; poured that back into the scalded milk; stirred gently; covered bowl w/ towel; put in warm place (top of stove, above pilot light) overnight. By morning no change, so whisked it a bit, re-covered it, and put it in oven (pilot light - temp is about 105) for thre day. Had to leave it out again overnight; no apparent change by morning; left it in oven today: yogurt.

It occurs to me that when I went to get the starter yogurt (Axelrod NF) there wasn't as much of it left as I had thought; somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 cup. Also it wasn't terribly fresh.

Next time around, I'll be doing it differently- but I'm not sure which factor to change first! Maybe I should wait till I've tasted it before I worry about that part.

And another question - lately I've taken to straining my yogurt. At the rate things are going I could end up having a hell of a lot of whey, which leads me to wonder: anything useful to be done with yogurt whey?

Meanwhile - Fat Guy, how was yours?

[fifi]

stirred gently

I don't know for sure but maybe this is the problem. If you look up-thread to my "gospel of yogurt according to mother" she did all of this manic whisking. When stirring in the starter culture, that has a lot to do with separating the little buggles so that they can "romp free and propogate". The fact that you had this goop on the bottom indicates to me that your culture was not well dispersed. But the 48 hours baffles me. I am beginning to think that your culture was really weak. In my food microbiologist days, I have studied the population curves in various fermented foods, like yogurt, and what you saw is not normal. Temperature control, viability of the starter and dispersion are the key parameters.

[Fat Guy]

I've just transfered my second batch of yogurt from the machine to the refrigerator. The first one was very successful, but in tasting it side-by-side against Stonyfield I felt the professionally made yogurt was thicker and more sour. So I've gone 2 hours longer this time, hoping to create a little more body and sourness in my yogurt.

The design of these old-style machines is pretty silly, though. The jars, each 1/5 of a quart in capacity, are too small to hold a reasonable portion of yogurt. And you can't make yogurt again until the jars are available. So you really need two sets of jars (which, thanks to Suzanne, I almost have), and even then there are too many pieces of glass and plastic to deal with -- why didn't they just make these machines with a single 1-quart container? Or, even better, with a heating element that, Torakris-style, can just be wrapped around any container or jar? I assume Torakris's sleeve thingy would fit nicely around a 1-quart mason jar, which would seem the ideal vessel.

[Fat Guy]

balmagowry, if the starter yogurt was lying lumpen at the bottom then surely you could have combined it more thoroughly with the milk. I'm also wondering about the nature of your starter yogurt: was it fresh from the store or was it from old yogurt that had been sitting around awhile?

The reason I wanted to use a machine for this process was to avoid any issues related to inaccurate temperature control. Everything I've read indicates that if you depart much from the 110-degree (F) mark you risk slow or no culture-action. Maybe your environment was just not warm enough.

[Anna N]

...

The design of these old-style machines is pretty silly, though. The jars, each 1/5 of a quart in capacity, are too small to hold a reasonable portion of yogurt. And you can't make yogurt again until the jars are available. So you really need two sets of jars (which, thanks to Suzanne, I almost have), and even then there are too many pieces of glass and plastic to deal with -- why didn't they just make these machines with a single 1-quart container? Or, even better, with a heating element that, Torakris-style, can just be wrapped around any container or jar? I assume Torakris's sleeve thingy would fit nicely around a 1-quart mason jar, which would seem the ideal vessel.

This is the reason I rarely make my own yogourt - it's just too silly! The thing works but all those silly little containers drive me nuts!

[fifi]

All of those silly little jars is why I never got a "yogurt maker". I just used those glasses with the lids that I referred to up-thread because they were convenient. I have also just done it in quart Mason jars. With the individual glasses, I would dump some of them into my draining contraption to produce "yogurt cheese". Then the glasses would go back to their original duty of containing various cocktails.

Using whole milk (4% fat?) and adding the dried milk supplement makes a much richer product. This especially shows up if you drain off the whey to make "yogurt cheese". I like my butter fat and I will swear that the yogurt product was a legitimate subsitute for sour cream.

balmagowry... I used to add the whey to my beloved basset hound's dry kibbles. She seemed to enjoy it. I never got beyond that. But you ask a good question.

[balmagowry]

stirred gently

I don't know for sure but maybe this is the problem. If you look up-thread to my "gospel of yogurt according to mother" she did all of this manic whisking. When stirring in the starter culture, that has a lot to do with separating the little buggles so that they can "romp free and propogate". The fact that you had this goop on the bottom indicates to me that your culture was not well dispersed. But the 48 hours baffles me. I am beginning to think that your culture was really weak.

Yup, I'm inclined to agree. What I didn't recap in my post for fear of tedium was the relationship of events to my reading of this thread. See, the reason for the gentle stir business was that the recipe I was working from took a different approach to mixing in the starter - some nonsense about the culture being so fragile (???) that violent stirring would kill it. Seemed dubious, but I figured, who am I to question it? By the time I'd read the very different views and recommendations expressed here, I was already in my what-the-hell-nothing-to-lose phase on this batch - which is why I then whisked it as per your mother's method and let it stand longer. As I think I said last night, the starter was not very fresh and there was less of it than I had planned on using (one of the pitfalls of starting these things at night; I'm lucky in that I have 24-hour markets nearby, but my stamina for schlepping doesn't always match them! )

Frankly, the only surprise to me in the whole business is that the stuff ever clabbered up at all!

I'm not too worried about the problem of a consistent heat source. I think I should have put the incipient yogurt IN the oven to begin with, that being the whole point of insisting on a pilot light. (The need to use the oven in the middle of the process was unforeseen - but then again whoda thunk the yogurt process would still be going on after 24 hours? Anyway, that sort of thing is normally preventable.)

On the butterfat question, I'm of two minds; as a rule I like mine, too, but with yogurt I've generally found that the no-fat ones have a tangier flavor, and Stonyfield at least doesn't sacrifice texture. (And none of them sacrifices texture if you strain them!)

Whey: yes, I had read somewhere that it was good for animals, so I offered it to mine; made the mistake, however, of giving it to them straight. Cat turned up his nose. Cocker spaniel delightedly snarfed it down... then barfed it right back up. Chowhound.... I'll try it in the kibble. But I'm still interested in other uses.

OK. Next time: fresh starter, and enough of it, violent whisking.

And now to taste the stuff....

[balmagowry]

And now to taste the stuff....

OK, I tasted it. It's yogurt. I'm not saying it's great - because it isn't - but it is yogurt. Straining it now.

Next batch: fresh starter, 1% milk.

And on a happier note, I think I'll go over to the onion confit thread and make my confessions there!

[slkinsey]

...why didn't they just make these machines with a single 1-quart container? Or, even better, with a heating element that, Torakris-style, can just be wrapped around any container or jar? I assume Torakris's sleeve thingy would fit nicely around a 1-quart mason jar, which would seem the ideal vessel.

Steven,

Have you ever thought of using a electric medical heating pad (like this one) wrapped around a big carton of milk? I have an adjustable one you could try out. Makes yogurt and it's good for earaches and muscle pains!

[Jensen]

I've just transfered my second batch of yogurt from the machine to the refrigerator. The first one was very successful, but in tasting it side-by-side against Stonyfield I felt the professionally made yogurt was thicker and more sour. So I've gone 2 hours longer this time, hoping to create a little more body and sourness in my yogurt.

Additional time will add to the sourness of your end product but, if you want it thicker, you will need to add some dry milk powder.

I've been making mine with the powder in my yogurt maker (see style here ... it's got one big container) but always wishing that it wasn't quite so firm as I prefer the European style yogurt. I finally made a batch on Tuesday without the milk powder (having just found out why all the recipes call for it) and I'm happy.

I've also found the best flavour results when I've used organic milk. I sometimes use homo milk and sometimes use 2%. The most recent batch is with 2% organic and it's got a wonderful creamy taste to it.

[balmagowry]

Well, I continue to be astonished by what I have wrought. By the purest happenstance, that is - I take no credit for it. It shouldn't have worked, a thousand times over, but we seem to be backing into something that looks like success. This morning I tasted, and found the flavor good, a nice tang to it - but the texture, not surprisingly, was a bit flabby. Well, I've been straining it for the past three hours or so, and though that process ain't finished yet by a long shot, I scooped me a nice bowlful from around the edges, and hey! it's wonderfully rich and creamy. OK, it's probably giving off more whey than one would normally want to see, but I don't think this is a big surprise given the vagaries of its manufacture - and for this one batch it's a small price to pay, considering that I'm getting a decent batch of very good yogurt where I fully expected to end up with bupkis! Have swirled in some lekvar in the present bowlful, and by gum it really does remind me of the long-lost Prune Whip flavor from my childhood.

Life is good!

Had planned to do next batch with 1% milk, but The Boy misread list and bought whole milk (not an unreasonable error since that's what I normally buy for drinking, coffee, etc.) - so what the hell, the new batch will be all the richer. Shall try organic one of these days (and maybe Brown Cow for starter), but so far I'm happy with what I've got. Dannon for starter; lucky I looked again at an old Stonyfield carton before making shopping list - I'd forgotten that they'd started adding pectin to theirs. Bummer - it was plenty good without.

EDIT: Oh! Just noticed Fat Guy's remark about testing against Stonyfield for texture. As mentioned above, Stonyfield puts pectin in theirs - has done for the past year, I think - so you're never going to match their texture exactly unless you do something similar. The powdered milk thing apparently does the trick, but I wonder how the two methods would compare. IAC, I've become addicted to strained yogurt, or yogurt "cheese" (though when I do it, somehow it seems creamier than I remember from when my mother used to make it) - you want body, you want smoothness, just let go of the whey!

Edited March 25, 2004 by balmagowry (log)

[Jensen]

Having just re-read balmagowry's account of her yogurt-making adventures, I thought I'd type out a list of the tips I've come across in recent times:

* The length of time the yogurt is in the cooker is what affects the sourness of the end product. A shorter incubation period results in a sweeter end product and, conversely, a longer incubation period results in a tangier end product.

* The consistency of the end product is dictated by the amount of milk protein in the batch. For firmer, American-style yogurt, add dry milk powder. For runnier, European-style yogurt, don't worry about it.

* Whey production can be kept to a minimum by making sure the milk is brought right to the boil.

* A great way to cool the milk quickly is to put it in an ice water bath. I put ice cubes in the sink and then add cold water. The pot is put in the sink until the milk has cooled to the appropriate temperature (last time, I used FoodMan's finger test and my yogurt turned out perfect).

And, as with all cooking, if you want a great tasting end product, start with the best tasting ingredients. For me, that means using organic milk.

[balmagowry]

Having just re-read balmagowry's account of her yogurt-making adventures, I thought I'd type out a list of the tips I've come across in recent times:

* The length of time the yogurt is in the cooker is what affects the sourness of the end product. A shorter incubation period results in a sweeter end product and, conversely, a longer incubation period results in a tangier end product.

* The consistency of the end product is dictated by the amount of milk protein in the batch. For firmer, American-style yogurt, add dry milk powder. For runnier, European-style yogurt, don't worry about it.

* Whey production can be kept to a minimum by making sure the milk is brought right to the boil.

* A great way to cool the milk quickly is to put it in an ice water bath. I put ice cubes in the sink and then add cold water. The pot is put in the sink until the milk has cooled to the appropriate temperature (last time, I used FoodMan's finger test and my yogurt turned out perfect).

And, as with all cooking, if you want a great tasting end product, start with the best tasting ingredients. For me, that means using organic milk.

Thank you! This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for! Into my Yogurt Bible it goes.

(And I continue to be astounded that my recent series of misadventures ever produced yogurt at all.)

[Fat Guy]

Having become entirely contemptuous towards all those little jars, I decided to take matters into my own hands and make a gallon of yogurt all at once. Here's what I did:

- Brought a gallon of milk up to 205-degrees (F) in a stockpot, stirring occasionally

- Let it cool to the mark on the yogurt-machine thermometer accessory where it says to add culture (I forgot to measure the actual temperature at this point)

- Took four empty 1-quart commercial plastic yogurt containers and added a tablespoon of yogurt to each

- Added a little milk to each and stirred the yogurt into the milk

- Filled each container with milk

- Placed all four containers in a large straight-sided saute pan and filled the pan with warm water

- Left the whole contraption on the stovetop while we had a day of baking and cooking, which maintained a temperature reading of 100-110 degrees in the water bath for most of the day

- Put the yogurt in the refrigerator after 10 hours

- Tasted this morning

The best results I've had yet, and I won't have to make yogurt again for a week. I think, next time, instead of the water bath, I'll try a heating pad. I know we have one around somewhere.

[balmagowry]

Long live eGullet! If this isn't the grand resource of the world, I don't know what is.

Have just decanted (and am about to breakfast on) Yogurt Mark II, made according to the advice above. The phrase "it's only perfect" comes to mind. It's thick, smooth, rich, creamy, tangy, yummy.

I used 1/2 gallon whole milk, brought it to full (not quite rolling) boil, poured it into pyrex bowl, cooled it to 110*. Put starter yogurt (1/2 cup Dannon NF, fresh-bought) in a small bowl, ladled in a little of the cooled milk, whisked like mad. Poured that mixture into the milk, and whisked like mad (so much so that the finished yogurt sported a thin layer of foam on its surface). Covered bowl, put in pilot-light-warmed oven. Took it out a scant 9 hours later. Refrigerated overnight.

It's so good I may well just eat it plain.

Questions.

A couple of you have mentioned covering "tightly" during incubation. I've been wrapping a pudding cloth over mine - keeps out any ambient dirt, but doesn't seal out air; I figured the culture would need to breathe while it was developing. The results seem to bear that out; but am I missing something? Should I be covering it more tightly? and if so, why?

Also, I am wondering whether it would be safe to do the incubating in the final storage containers - which for the moment are merely old quart containers from those benighted days when I still used store-bought (feh!) yogurt. Somehow it seems inappropriate to use anything so inorganic - but assuming the plastic is sufficiently heat-resistant it would at least be eminently practical. Pros/cons?

Oy, I can see it now: next thing you know I will be buying some kind of fancy-schmancy jars to consecrate to the purpose. MORE STUFF. Sigh.

[balmagowry]

Aha! FatGuy, we're in sync. (Except that I'm the only yogurt-eater in the household, so I make more modest quantities....)

And you've done exactly what I was contemplating with the containers. Water bath - good idea. Would obviate my concern about the containers melting; but then, I don't think they'd melt anyway - pilot light isn't that hot.

Are you going to use your own yogurt as starter for the next batch? I'm dying to - going to unless someone here strongly advises against it. (Might try it anyway, even if they do... contrary, don't you know.)

[Jensen]

I used my own yogurt as a starter for my last batch and, guess what???? it was the best batch ever!

I did freeze a small amount of the current batch as was hinted at in FoodMan's recipe. I'm not sure whether I'm brave enough yet to try it though...

Also, I did read somewhere (exact location is lost in the recesses of my brain) that those plastic yogurt containers are absolutely usable. I think I read it as a feature of the yogurt maker I bought; the container that comes with it is about the same size and someone wrote somewhere that you could use that and store-bought containers interchangably.