Story of Varmint's Kitchen Renovation

forever_young_ca · January 23, 2004

But if your pots and pans look like THIS, then you HAVE to have doors.”

Agreed - that is what mine look like as well. I would highly recomend pull out drawers rather than the conventional shelves - it saves your back, crawling around on your hands and knees and generally much annoyance and swearing... :smile:

Varmint · January 23, 2004

Here's a crude sketch of the cooktop cabinetry elevation:

Doors will be there.

**Dave the Cook** · January 23, 2004

I believe the 80/20 rule applies to cookware: you do 80% of your cooking with 20% of your pots and pans. Someone suggested earlier that you keep the ones you use most often out on a rack, and the rest in a cabinet. I recall that you have a rack in your current configuration, so you might be employing some version of this already. If you're not, you might consider it. You only have to keep a few pieces pristine, you gain accessibility, and you can keep the ugly stuff hidden. This is pretty much the way I operate, and most weeknights, I only open the cabinet to retrieve the pasta pot. (Weekends don't count, of course.) I agree that a drawer configuration beats shelves. You can keep your biggest stockpots in the pantry.

If you want to keep the present rack, we'll need to work it into the plan. Alternatively, you need to put a new one on your shopping list. I've seen racks designed to go around the sort of chimney you've sketched.

Marlene · January 23, 2004

I too would vote for drawers instead of cupboards for pots and pans.

Varmint · January 23, 2004

I believe the 80/20 rule applies to cookware: you do 80% of your cooking with 20% of your pots and pans. Someone suggested earlier that you keep the ones you use most often out on a rack, and the rest in a cabinet. I recall that you have a rack in your current configuration, so you might be employing some version of this already. If you're not, you might consider it. You only have to keep a few pieces pristine, you gain accessibility, and you can keep the ugly stuff hidden. This is pretty much the way I operate, and most weeknights, I only open the cabinet to retrieve the pasta pot. (Weekends don't count, of course.) I agree that a drawer configuration beats shelves. You can keep your biggest stockpots in the pantry.
If you want to keep the present rack, we'll need to work it into the plan. Alternatively, you need to put a new one on your shopping list. I've seen racks designed to go around the sort of chimney you've sketched.

The drawers are an item that may have to be retro-fitted. I'm going to be pushing my budget as it is, so I probably can't spring for some of the nice hardware right now.

As far as the pot rack is concerned, I may very well install one of those wire grids that attach to the wall, to which hooks attach. The pots can hang from those hooks. This will probably be on the left side of the hood.

Varmint · January 26, 2004

I was supposed to meet with the contactor tomorrow, but I'm stranded in the middle of nowhere, south of Richmond, with 4 inches of snow on the ground. So, it'll be later this week.

robyn · January 26, 2004

I was supposed to meet with the contactor tomorrow, but I'm stranded in the middle of nowhere, south of Richmond, with 4 inches of snow on the ground. So, it'll be later this week.

Hope you do ok with the weather. Take care, Robyn

Marlene · January 27, 2004

Varmint, I feel your pain. We're currently being hammered by a snow storm coming out of Oklahoma. It has snowed all day and is supposed to snow all day tomorrow. The wind isn't helping. And Don is in New York which is expecting the storm currently hitting the Carolinas to hit NY tomorrow sometime.

Good thing I've got lots of food in the house. I won't be getting out till Wed sometime. :sad:

Varmint · January 27, 2004

I made it back yesterday, but the city is still paralyzed by ice. Our office is closed for the second day in a row (although I'm here, trying to catch up on some work).

I sketched out the cabinetry and appliance lay out for the new long countertop/sink/work area where the new window will go. This resulted in a question I hadn't thought of: what's the typical distance between the counter and the bottom of the upper cabinets? I'm guessing it's about 18", but we may want them to be a bit higher.

Blondie · January 27, 2004

I sketched out the cabinetry and appliance lay out for the new long countertop/sink/work area where the new window will go. This resulted in a question I hadn't thought of: what's the typical distance between the counter and the bottom of the upper cabinets? I'm guessing it's about 18", but we may want them to be a bit higher.

18" is standard, but going a bit higher is a great idea in your case.

Varmint · January 27, 2004

By the way, one of my goals in this renovation was to be somewhat confident that this temporary solution would work in the long term as well. Here's an example of how that might work: At some point in the future, we'll want to relocate the family entrance into the house in the utility room. It just makes more sense. Once we do that, we can close off the back door by the driveway. I can then close off the eating bar area, resulting in this:

Now that's not a crazy kitchen set-up at all!!!

Rachel Perlow · January 28, 2004

18" is the standard backsplash height. However, I knew I'd have trouble using my KitchenAid Mixer with that space, and that our MixMaster just wouldn't fit there. Measure the tallest small appliance you plan to keep on your counter under the upper cabinets. Add an inch and make that your backsplash height. Ours our 21".

forever_young_ca · January 28, 2004

but we may want them to be a bit higher.

I think you also have to consider the height of the users of the upper cabinets. If you are tall you can get away with making them higher than normal. However, if anyone in the household is on the short side getting stuff from the upper cabinets is difficult if they are placed too high.

I know this from much experience!

Varmint · January 28, 2004

Here's a first try at sketching out the cabinetry for the new, 15-foot long counter. This version has the upper cabinets situated 18" above the countertop, but I think I will go a bit higher.

WR: Wine refrigerator

IM: Ice maker

DW: Dishwasher

By the way, the reason there's an empty spot at the end of the peninsula is because I'll have a cupboard at the end that opens up towards the cooktop. This shallow cupboard will house spices, etc.

Varmint · January 31, 2004

Budget crunch. We're going to need to hold off on the renovations, it looks like. I'm pissed. Hopefully I'll get a nice first quarter bonus!!!

Boris_A · January 31, 2004

one of my goals in this renovation was to be somewhat confident that this temporary solution would work in the long term as well.
......
Budget crunch. We're going to need to hold off on the renovations, it looks like.

That's not so bad. The new kitchen plannings looks so good, it's going to be a final, not an interim solution. So more time and thus more careful planning is no real harm. It's a chance. A good design is always arranging and rearranging of possibilities.

But of course I feel sorry for the extended time you will have to cook in your maze kitchen.

Varmint · January 31, 2004

one of my goals in this renovation was to be somewhat confident that this temporary solution would work in the long term as well.
......
Budget crunch. We're going to need to hold off on the renovations, it looks like.
That's not so bad. The new kitchen plannings looks so good, it's going to be a final, not an interim solution. So more time and thus more careful planning is no real harm. It's a chance. A good design is always arranging and rearranging of possibilities.
But of course I feel sorry for the extended time you will have to cook in your maze kitchen.

Thanks. I am starting to realize the potential of this arrangement, and that I want to go ahead and do the floors as well. I also want to get the eating counter arranged the way I want.

Finally, I realize that even mid-level semi-custom cabinets will liven up this kitchen tremendously. And if I can get our office's building owner to give me that granite . . . .

Rachel Perlow · January 31, 2004

Yeah! Definitely do the floors at the same time.

Varmint · February 4, 2004

One bit of good news. Since we're putting up new cedar siding (damn, that stuff is expensive), we've gone ahead and told the contractor to put a new door in the utility room and to close off the kitchen door. Once that's done, I'll be able to do the kitchen in its entirety -- that is, when I get the money, too!

Schielke · February 4, 2004

Kick ass

Al_Dente · February 4, 2004

Since we're putting up new cedar siding

Save a few pieces for grilling some salmon!

marie-louise · February 7, 2004

One bit of good news. Since we're putting up new cedar siding (damn, that stuff is expensive), we've gone ahead and told the contractor to put a new door in the utility room and to close off the kitchen door. Once that's done, I'll be able to do the kitchen in its entirety -- that is, when I get the money, too!

This is probably just a weird California bias, but I can't imagine wanting to seal a door to the outside up! Are you SURE you want to do that? How will you get to and from your BBQ?

I can see adding doors-it is always nice to have more ways to get to the outside. I've had a door that opens to the outside in every kitchen I've ever lived in. My current kitchen has three glass doors. I love cooking with all the doors open on nice days, and of course it is handy to have big-time ventilation when something starts smoking!

PS I hear ya on the cedar siding $$$-our beach house has it.

Rachel Perlow · July 26, 2004

How's it going, Dean?

Special K · July 26, 2004

Just a random note about kitchen sink faucet placement - I noticed that in your sketch you have the faucet in the center over the sink, where it usually ends up. In my current kitchen the faucet (a Grohe Eurodeck single-lever with a retractable sprayer) is mounted (thanks the the house's previous owner) on the right hand corner, instead. Being right-handed myself, I find this much more comfortable, just as I'm sure a lefty would greatly appreciate having it over on the left side. I never would have thought of it myself, but it really is much more user-friendly than working from the center. I have just the one large, deep sink, which I'm very happy with, but I don't think it would make a difference if you did this on a double sink.

Of course, if one of you is right-handed, and the other is left-handed, I guess centered would be the way to go :smile: Maybe that's why it's the default position.

Varmint · July 26, 2004

Dagnabbit it, I thought this thread had died and was deeply buried.

First, Mrs. Varmint is a leftie and I'm a right-hander. The faucet will stay in the middle.

Things haven't changed, and my "kitchen" which became our very expensive cedar siding looks great on the exterior of our house. Very great! The kitchen remains as it was, except the door has been closed off. I'm staying with the plans as described in the 8 gazillion posts above, but when I do it in the spring (please, dear god, don't let it be any later than this spring), I will re-do the floor and get new cabinets. It's unavoidable now, particularly after this wait.

By the way, if anyone knows someone who wants to re-do my kitchen for free in exchange for a TV show or a testimonial, please have 'em call me!

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