[PDX] Thai Food...

[ExtraMSG]

Been on a Thai and Vietnamese binge lately. Always on a Thai binge truly, but now that my wife is developing a palate for SE Asian and with the cheap prices, I've been kicking it into high gear.

Here are my current favorites:

Typhoon

Lemongrass

Khun Pic's

Thai Little Home (Vancouver)

It's interesting to me that all of these are ones you'd find in lots of guidebooks and as recommendations from newspapers. Seems like there should be others. And it's not like I go to the same ones over and over or don't try dives and hole in the walls.

Recently, I got a rec on Chowhound for Chaba Thai on Sandy. Haven't been there yet. Tried another rec from Chowhound called Tom Yum on Woodstock that was pretty decent, especially their larb. Also tried Bangkok Restaurant on Burnside relatively recently based on a rec from a Thai food-lover that works with my wife. It was okay. An asbestos-mouthed friend of mine has always loved E-San downtown. Thai Orchid and Arawan are adequate stand-by local chains. There are plenty that I don't find adequate.

So, what are your favs? What are your bases for comparison and how do your Portland favorites or my favorites compare (not just you think Portland's suck or rock, but what's the difference)? What's the best dishes -- best larb, best pad thai, best curry, etc? Most authentic? Best without regard to authenticity? Etc.

[bankchef]

Chopsticks on Hawthorne. Cheap and pretty decent.

Portland Thai food is pretty good. Like Memphis Vietnamese.

[ExtraMSG]

Went to E-San tonight. Had the larb, green curry, and the evil prince curry.

The larb was okay. Very limey. It had the cabbage wedge, it had the onions, but it didn't have much flavoring to the meat and not much texture from toasted/roasted rice. Also no fish sauce flavor whatsoever that I could notice. I'd say it was mediocre.

The evil prince curry was a red curry with a lot of basil, broccoli, carrots, and (my wife got it) tofu. Kind of sweet but a decent flavor. I don't know about the proportions of ingredients, though. Very little tofu and a lot of basil, like I said.

The best of the three was easily the green curry. It had a very unique and tasty flavor. I'm not sure what it was from. It came with bamboo shoots, apple eggplant (I think), and bell pepper. The beef was actually kind of tender, somwwhat of a rarity in curries (personally, I like to westernize curries and just grill some flank steak medium-rare and add it on top at home). I think this is something worth trying, though.

Overall, they seem decent, though I don't know if they're a standout. Certainly one of the better options downtown or in NW (they have two locations).

[Alberts]

It is always polite to be complementary first, but I'll save that for now to take the opportunity to deride what seems to be considered a great place, but we found to be just the opposite: Lemongrass.

This was one of the worst, no wait..the worst, meal we have had, without question. My wife and I love Thai food, to the point that Thai was our choice even for our wedding reception. Everything was wrong with our dining experience. We ordered some standards, Tom Ka Gai, Mussamon curry, Pad Thai, nothing too fancy, as we figure, if you do the standards well, it is probably a good place.

The Tom Ka Gai, which came first, was sickeningly sour, unpalatable. The waiter proceeded to tell us that we simply had not had authentic soup, that the problem was us. Ok, maybe. But having had the dish a thousand times, at a hundred different places, I sort of doubt it. He was incensed that we didn't want it.

Then the curry, ordered as a spicy of 2 (up to 7, I think), came firey, outrageously hot. Were they mad at us for our feelings about the soup? Who knows. Again, telling them it was too spicy was greated with disgust. Who cares about the Pad Thai. By then we felt like we had been beat up.

It is rare that we wouldn't give a restaurant a second chance, but this was soooo bad. No way.

For the good stuff: we have had consistent success with Typhoon on 23rd, a new place Papaya Thai in Moreland is pretty good.

Is there a place in town that is really different? I'd love to hear about it. Bangkok Kitchen on Belmont used to be great (I think it might have been the first Thai place in town), but we haven't been there in 10 years or so

[ExtraMSG]

Sorry that you had a bad experience. Never had that sort of thing happen there. I have heard yelling from the kitchen, though.

I'd highly suggest Khun Pic's for a change from the standard Thai restaurant. Best dive so far is still Thai Little Home in Vancouver.

[ExtraMSG]

I was talking with a fellow-chowhounder about Arawan today. They know the owners (they seem to know the owners of every restaurant they frequent). I guess they had talked with them about the sweetness and he said that's what he grew up with. I do think Arawan does a consistently good job. But you have to like your curries a little sweeter than average (or a little hotter to balance it out). btw, I didn't realize they had a website:

http://www.arawanthaicuisine.com/index.shtml

[ExtraMSG]

Cha' Ba Thai

5810 NE Sandy Blvd

503.282.3970

I made an effort to get up Sandy after dropping my wife at work today and try this place. Glad they were open.

Surprisingly it's decently nice inside. It's on that strip of Sandy with all the Asian restaurants, actually on the same block as Sam Ho. I expected it to be a little more low-end Thai decor like a Bangkok Kitchen or something like that. But it was pleasant with comfortable chairs, decent tables, and attractive-enough walls.

Their main menu is pretty standard, but their monthly specials menu had piqued my interest immediately with the first item: miang kum. Here's the description:

You might have tried this classic Thai dish at other Thai restaurants, but at Cha' Ba Thai it's different -- you build it to your own desired flavor.  Fresh diced ginger, shallots, toasted coconut, lime peanuts, Thai chili, and dried shrimp with Cha' Ba Thai Miang Kum Sauce on Piper Sarmentosum (wild betel) leaves.  Lots of healthy herbs and a medley of flavors.

Unfortunately they were out of betel leaves because of the snow keeping the delivery truck away, but they made it with baby spinach leaves which worked well enough. Nice to see it on a menu and it was tasty. $8.50.

I also got the basic green curry with beef. It was quite tasty with a fresher flavor than most places. I asked afterwards if they make their own paste and apparently they do. Makes a difference, especially in green curry in my experience, because of the fresh chiles that are used and all the herbs. Another striking thing about their green curry was the beef. I'm sure anyone with Asian food experience knows the disappointing texture of most meats in curries and such. All too often it's overcooked, rubbery, and dry. This wasn't at all. In fact, it was probably cooked perfectly, tender, and flavorful. Makes a big difference, imo. $7.50. (One things: the portion size did seem a little smaller than some places, but it's hard for me to tell nowadays because I'm eating curries like soups without the rice and it didn't come in a bowl, but on a plate next to the rice.)

I'm eager to go try my other stand-by dish: larb. I have a goal to try the green curry, larb, green papaya salad at as many places as possible. I'm eager to get back here, although some of the other specials may call my name (so if anyone's looking for a lunch companion....):

Po Pia Sod: This is a typical Chinese and Thai style fresh roll which is hard to find among Portland Thai restaurants.  Filled with tofu, Po Pia Sod Shrimp, Chinese Sausage, bean sprouts, eggs, cucumbers, carrots, and shredded green onion.  Topped with a light sauce and fresh Dungeness crab meat.  $8.50.

Stir Fried Green Curry Beef: This authentic Thai dish is rarely found among Thai Restaurants.  We stir fry well selected tender beef with green curry, coconut milk, bell pepper, eggplant, bamboo shoots, kaffir lime leaves, and rhizome root (a type of herb) [galangal maybe?]. $10.50.

Chunk Beef in Yellow Curry: Soft and tender sirloin chuck beef with yellow curry, served with potatoes, carrots, onion, herbs, and spices.  $10.50.

Red Sea Perch with Spicy Sweet and Sour Sauce (Chef Highly Recommends): Deep fried whole red sea perch served on a bed of crispy Chinese broccoli leaves and topped with Cha Ba Thai spicy sweet and sour sauce (dine in only).  $13.50.

Moon Stuff: Thai pan omelette stuffed with ground chicken and shrimp, dived onions, tomatoes, carrots, snow peas, and green beans.  Served with cumber [cucumber?] sauce. $10.50.

They have a lot of seafood options, too, and one of the more extensive salad menus for a Thai place in Portland.

After one visit, I am fairly confident in saying they're a winner. I eagerly look forward to more visits so I can more accurately place them among other Portland Thai restaurants.

[trillium]

Thanks for the heads up, this place sounds very promising. I always thought popia were a Nonya specialty, it will be interesting to taste the Thai version. The rhizome they're talking about might be galanga but it also might be gra chai, which goes by the name of lesser rhizome sometimes. You can see a picture of it here if you scroll down.

regards,

trillium

[ExtraMSG]

Interesting. I'll be very interested to hear your take on it. It's good regardless, but it'll be interesting to understand how good it is in relation to food in Thailand.

Now I'm tempted to go there today and try the larb and green papaya salads. I need to get back to Khun Pic's, too.

A quick count of the number of Thai restaurants I've been to in Portland metro: 18 (and I've probably forgot some), not including Vietnamese or Chinese places that serve some Thai dishes, and not including multiple locations. Pretty soon I'll catch up to the number of taquerias I've been to. I guess after that it'll have to be Pho/Vietnames.

[ExtraMSG]

Got dinner at Cha Ba Thai again tonight and had the Po Pia Sod, the Som Tum, and the Larb. When they say hot, they mean it. The larb was a little over the top for me. Luckily I got the green papaya salad only medium so that my wife could have some, but it was too much for her, about just right for me. They serve both with cabbage wedges which I like. The larb is good and the som tum is decent.

We both really liked the po pia sod. There are two rolls divided into several pieces and each roll is probably about 8 inches or so in length. They're topped with a sauce and crab and shrimp meat. I actually liked the crab meat. Nice and sweet. The plate is garnished with a mustard, too.

One bad thing that I hesitate to mention, but is rather important. However, I think I know the cause but it doesn't really excuse the problem. My wife also ordered a fish dish, a filet of tilapia lightly fried with vegetables and a sweet and sour sauce. It looked really good, and the portion was huge. But the filet was inedible. It tasted....moldy....or freezer burned. If we were at a restaurant where the waitress spoke better English, I probably would have let them know. It could be an honest mistake. I suspect it has to do with them pushing the limits of storage because a) they've been essentially out of business the last week, and b) they probably haven't gotten any new deliveries lately. You'd hope that they would just check the food and say it's not good enough and say they're out of it or whatever. But they didn't. I'm hoping it's just an anomaly and the mistake of a small business just getting by. I can sympathize with that, even if it's wrong. I'll wait a couple weeks before I try a fish dish there again, and I suggest you do the same.

Overall, I'm still very encouraged. Luckily, I don't like fish much anyway.

[ExtraMSG]

Based on some recommendations, I went to Sukhothai for a second time recently. Had originally gone there when they opened.

Sukhothai

2014 NE Broadway

503-331-1235

It's a cute little place that follows the trend of most of the newer Thai places in town to try to make middle and upper-middle class people comfortable with a wine list, decently painted interior, decent tables, and linen napkins.

They have a good menu. You'll find miang kum, eg, under the appetizers, although they do use spinach leaves instead of betel. You'll also find things like tod mun pla, fried fish cakes, on their appetizer menu.

Their tom kha also comes in the wonderful volcano-style soup bowl with the fire in the middle. (What's the name of this thing? Trillium? Curt?)

They have all the standards at reasonable prices -- curries at $8.50 w/ basic meats, noodle dishes the same. They also have several house specials and chef's specials, including gang pa, a coconut milkless curry and dishes making use of salmon and halibut. They also have a large lunch special menu that cuts $2 off the price of most dishes.

My wife and I split the miang kum ($6.95) as an appetizer. She got the lemongrass chicken ($9.50), a house special, and I got the green curry with beef ($8.50), my current favorite litmus test.

The miang kum was tasty, though, like I said, uses spinach leaves. But I don't consider that a big knock against it. The pieces were fresh (and the thai chiles they used were heinously spicy).

My wife's lemongrass chicken probably should have been called peanut chicken because the flavor of peanut sauce was by far it's dominant flavor. That's fine. I think a lot of people would love this dish. The chicken breast was nicely cooked, still moist, and it was a huge portion that looked great. It was served with lots of steamed broccoli and spinach. This would be an excellent choice for anyone wary of Thai food.

My green curry was decent, not great, not Cha Ba Thai good, but decent. I do wish more places would use Thai eggplants, though. I need to start bitching out this at Thai restaurants, because Chinese eggplants just get too mushy in curries.

Sukhothai is way better than Eagle Thai, which is also in Irvington/Lloyd Center area. It's also better than Dragonfly was, though that place has now been replaced by a Thai restaurant called Ruen, which I haven't tried. Maybe soon.

[Exotic Mushroom]

I used to live in Portland and was completely unimpressed with the Thai food there in general. However, I did love this little place on SE Belmont around 35th or 36th St., next to the Avalon Theater. It was in a house. Can't remember the name. It's easy to find if you go to where I said, though.

Anyway, I always thought that way the best Thai food in town. I'd highly recommend it.

Go with someone you like to talk to, though. If I recall correctly, it can sometimes be a long wait.

Edited January 31, 2004 by Exotic Mushroom (log)

[ExtraMSG]

That's Khun Pic's, and yes, they take a while.

Edit to add: I'm a little suspicious of people who are critical of Portland Thai restaurants. I can understand if people don't like it because of its lack of authenticity, but that's an issue more with them than the food (and it's not like Portland Thai is monolithic).

But I don't think, eg, that Seattle is clearly any better for Thai food after having eaten at many of their most liked restaurants (still not Noodle Boat, however). I've eaten at well-respected Thai places in SF, Berkeley, and LA and don't see a big difference, either.

Of course, it depends on what you're looking for. If you're used to some place in Thai Town in LA and then you go to Typhoon, you might be disappointed because the styles are so different.

Edited January 31, 2004 by ExtraMSG (log)

[tsquare]

But I don't think, eg, that Seattle is clearly any better for Thai food after having eaten at many of their most liked restaurants (still not Noodle Boat, however). I've eaten at well-respected Thai places in SF, Berkeley, and LA and don't see a big difference, either.

Hey, who said (s)he was in Seattle? Looks like Oakland from another post.

[Exotic Mushroom]

I've never been to Seattle, so I can't really comment on the Thai (or any other) food there.

I do live in Oakland, and I absolutely love Thai food. I eat it all the time. When I was in Portland, friends would take me to Thai restaurants, and I just really didn't like them at all. Until I went to the place on Belmont, I was convinced I hated Thai food in general. Then I adored that place. Then I moved and discovered what a wonderful cuisine it is.

Of course, I certainly didn't go to every Thai restaurant in Portland. Also, it's likely that there are new places since I moved.

I wasn't trying to be super down on Portland, just suggesting I place I remember being good and preferencing it with my perspective.

[ExtraMSG]

Well, there are certainly some good options in the bay area, and a lot more of them than here. There has been a steady improvement, in my view, over the last few years in Portland. I think a lot of the newer places, like Cha Ba, Sukhothai, Tom Yum, E-San, and Arawan are more in line with what you get in SF and LA. I still don't know what truly authentic Thai tastes like. I'm waiting for Trillium to say the wonderful words: "Okay, I've found this Thai restaurant..." From what duckduck has said, we might get an opportunity for the folks at Sukhothai to make us a special off-menu meal of real, true, authentic Thai food, they stuff they're eating in the kitchen while we're eating our Westernized stuff in the dining room.

If that happens, Trillium, I expect you to go, even if I have to pay.

[trillium]

Hey, I'll be there (and pay for myself!) as long as I don't have to work or be at home giving the 18 year old diabetic cat her shot. I'm bummed I didn't get to go to that Chinese/Korean place with you guys, but weekday nights are tough for me, especially with deadlines.

I actually tried to go to Cha Ba for lunch yesterday, but Sunday is the one day they're not open for lunch! I haven't had betel leaves in ages. We ended up at Om Seafood and I'm wondering if they've lost their chef because the place was deserted at 1 pm on a Sunday...not a good sign. Anyway, I never thought it was that great to begin with, and our visit didn't change my impression any. Some of the dishes can be really good and the rest can be really mediocre HK-style Cantonese food (which is about the worst style of "bad" Chinese you can eat, in my never humble opinion).

On Thai in Pdx, Avoid Sweet Basil in Sellwood like the plague, we checked it out because it's within walking distance from our house. It's one of those jobs where they put dried chilli flakes in everything if you want it to be hot...I hate that. And they used hothouse Italian basil not SE Asian basil. If you're gonna call yourself "Sweet Basil" you better use the right basil, dammit.

regards,

trillium

edit: because I can't differentiate between the weekday and weekend

Edited February 2, 2004 by trillium (log)

[ExtraMSG]

Aren't these the same as the people on Broadway, or have they moved? I tried the place on Broadway for lunch and the vegetables were so obviously frozen it really turned me off to them. They had this nice little patio (I think this used to be Laslow's) and they tried on presentation, but the flavors were really mediocre. Too many other Thai places to try that I haven't gone back.

We're working on getting that outing to Sukothai in April, probably a Tuesday. I'll keep you informed.

[rachaelLK]

It's the same sweet basil as the one on broadway. I haven't been to the one in sellwood (also near me) and won't. SB is Thai for the masses. It sucks. Presentation and environs are good, but none of that matters if the food isn't. Too expensive too.

I like Papaya Thai which is just down the street from the new SB.

rachael

[trillium]

I just went to Cha Ba Thai for the second time this weekend, and I thought I'd revive this thread to put my two cents out there. Cha Ba is the first Thai restaurant in Portland I went back to a second time of my own free will, which is saying something. It's not what I'd consider the perfect Thai restaurant by any means, but it is a place I don't mind going to and I'd go again. The first time we went I was really excited to taste their house made curries and see how they compared to ours. Imagine my disappointment when I walked past the open kitchen door and saw shelves of tubs of Mae Ploy pastes lining the kitchen. So I don't think they're making the pastes themselves, or at least not all of them, but they are using them as a base to take off from, and not just as the sole seasoning. Hey, that's ok, I do that at home sometimes too.

I think the standouts last time were the crispy duck, the choo chee catfish and the salads. I'm not a normal catfish eater, but I really enjoyed the prep of deep fried catfish pieces with the choo chee style curry (imagine a very thick red curry with extra gra chai flavor to complement the fish). Their weakness is the service, the person taking your order isn't always on top of things, the first time were were there with a large group they forgot a couple of dishes, but that kind of thing doesn't usually keep my away from a place.

This weekend it was just me, my mum and partner, so we could order things that sometimes scare off people who don't like their food to have a face. The fish cakes were tasty, not too much flour to dilute the fish in the batter, so they were still nice and soft. They use good quality seafood in their salads and I like how they use mesclun as a substitute for the gathered greens that would normally go in these. Their salads are seasoned the way I like, with plenty of lime juice and enough fish sauce so you can smell it. I found the po pia ok, but not something I'd order again. The bright yellow and overly sweet and gooey sauce they doused them in was a disappointment and the lap cheung kind of overpowered everything else that was inside them. The po pia wrappers seemed king of stale too. They have a new spring menu (betel leaves have been replaced by spinach it seems) and I ordered the dish I always, always order out because it's so much bother to make at home. A whole fish, deep fried until the it's crispy, very crispy, so that you can eat the fins and bones crispy, and then doused in a hot, sweet and sour sauce redolent of tamarind, shallot, fish sauce, garlic and chillies (Bplah Rad Prik). Their version was very respectable, and an incredible deal at 13.50. The sauce had everything food processed so you couldn't see the individual components and that isn't my favorite way, but it was still pretty good. It was sweeter and less hot then we like, but that is the new fashioned way to do it, so next time we'll just ask for less sweet and see what happens. We picked away at this for a long time but still ended up taking some home to eat the next day.

regards,

trillium

[ExtraMSG]

Thanks for the detailed report, Trillium. Glad you liked it. Too bad they're not doing the curries from scratch. When I asked, they said they did, but there could have been a language barrier or maybe it depends on the curry. There probably isn't much reason to do a red curry from scratch. (I do think green curries gain *a lot* when done from scratch, though.)

I don't know authentic, but they seem to be a step above most places in PDX. There'a freshnes to what they do, also often an intensity and balance that many other places just don't quite have.

btw, I might as well report on our PortlandFood.org outing while I'm thinking of it. Last week, nearly 20 of us piled into Sukhothai for a feast. You can see some pictures here:

http://www.extramsg.com/modules.php?set_al...=view_album.php

I tried to indicate which dishes weren't on the menu. I think everyone really enjoyed it. I think the proprieters of Sukhothai are from Chiang Mai and may be at least somewhat ethnically Laotian. But I don't know for sure.

Anyway, we had over a dozen dishes, all family style, and there was actually food leftover which bottomless guts like myself kept picking at, causing me to have to unbutton a button on the drive home, I was so bloated.

Several of the dishes were off-menu, and it figures, they were usually some of the best. eg, there was a young banana flour and chicken stew, not sure of the proper name, that was excellent, with a great balance of flavor and a lot of depth and high notes as well. I almost missed that dish and then was so happy when I found it and got to eat the rest of the plate of it.

They made a Thai sausage of some sort, I believe pork, for us that was seriously excellent. It was served with chilies, cilantro, and, I believe, young ginger. I ate more than my share. Screw everyone else. I kept grabbing slices off the plate.

There was a kow soi (sp?) -- a yellow curry with fried bean threads and other bits that was quite tasty. One of the better curries I've had anywhere, I'd say. Very good. I think it might have been the favorite of most people. I don't think it's on the menu, either.

Oh, and a green mango salad with soft-shell (I think) crab that was excellent. Their som tum was tasty, but I liked this salad even more.

Those were my favorites of the night and I think all of them are off-menu! Ugh!

With all that food, our bill only came out to $18/person with tip, so we made it $20 even per person, which I thought was a good thing. They were so hospitable and did such a great job.

Trillium, this might be a place to try on a slow night, like a Tuesday, and talk to the owners/chef and encourage them to authenticize your meal, maybe even just create something special for you.

[chefrodrigo]

We were at Cha Ba just the other night. We were so close to ordering that catfish and now I wish we had. Great report. I love that place.

Rodney

[whippy]

did i miss it?

has nobody mentioned chaba thai's romaine leaves with canned tuna?

miang pla tu, i want to say. it can be a bit spotty, but we order it everytime specifically "medium" and if it's been made well, it's the best thing on their menu.

who cares if it's not authentic? or maybe it is authentic, and i just didn't have a thai home cook available.

it will start good natured fights over the last piece.

have you had their miang kum (i want to say) with the betel leaves instead of baby spinach? amazing. WAY better than other joints.

have to stick up for lemongrass. love the apple in the salad rolls. reasoned and delicious.

need to get my butt to khun pics, but somehow that gate, that house, that garden....i know it's there, i can just never find it.

[ExtraMSG]

Luckily, I keep a menu from just about everywhere I eat. It is the miang pla tu for $7. It's on the appetizer list. Never had it. Sounsd like you need to join our curry club, whippy. On PortlandFood.org, we're going to try to start organzing a regular lunch, and possibly dinner, crew to go to Indian, Thai, and Tibetan places.

My current favs are: Cha Ba, Sukhothai, Arawan, Thai Little Home, Khun Pics, and either Lemongrass or Typhoon. Each of these last two has their advantages, and though clearly not trying to be too authentic, I think they make tasty stuff.

There are so many places, though, and more popping up all the time. It's impossible to throw a rock and not be in eyesight of a Thai or Vietnamese restaurant in Portland right now.

btw, the first few times I tried to find Khun Pic's I passed it right by. It's a tiny entryway, totally hidden. Reminds me of Chez Panisse, where if you weren't going out of your way to look for it, you'd never notice there's a restaurant there.

[trillium]

Cha Ba isn't offering betel leaves with the miang kum any more, just spinach... too bad.

What I'd nearly kill for is some pan with betel nuts...sigh.

regards,

trillium