Welcome to the new Coffee and Tea forum

[phaelon56]

Hello to all you self professed coffee and tea geeks and fiends (even those with just a passing interest). I was delighted when eGullet's Craig Camp recently advised me that a separate Coffee and Tea forum would be launched and asked me to serve as moderator.

I imagine some sort of "formal' introduction will be posted by eGullet but I'll throw in the basic details here.

A native of Syracuse NY, I spent several years in Ithaca in the early '90s, subsequently relocated to the NYC area for another four years, eventually returning to Syracuse several months ago for work related reasons.

A personal interest in food and beverage dates back to the late 1970's when I worked as a busboy, waiter and bartender. My exposure to better quality coffee and the benefits of grinding fresh whole beans dates back to 1980. Fast forward to 2001. Frequent business travel exposed me to better quality but still inadequate espresso and cappuccino. A budding interest in the flexibility and benefits of quality home espresso production led me along a learning path that I still enjoy traveling. Although far from an expert, my interest in the entire process of coffee and espresso, from growing to brewing and even retailing, has prompted me to search regularly for information and increased knowledge.

I look forward to some spirited exchange of ideas in this forum. My knowledge of tea is limited but I'll work on improving that as time progresses.

For the record.... my current setup includes:

Isomac Tea E61 style espresso machine

Mazzer Mini Grinder

Thor amboyna wood custome tamper

Mellita cones for drip coffee (two sizes)

Alpenroast drum roaster

Cheap Proctor-Silex drip maker (even I have company once in awhile!)

I have for some time been attempting to combine my interest in coffee and espresso with my love for travel. My personal web site offers the first glance at this although it is sorely in need of an update. Those with a travel interest might also take a gander at my one and only "published" article

http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/cafestage/02-25-2003

[Fat Guy]

Great to have you on the dark side, Owen.

Folks, we'll get the miscellaneous coffee & tea topics from the current boards moved into this forum sometime this week. Until then, feel free to start lots of new and unique ones!

[Marlene]

Welcome as they say! I'm glad to see this new forum, since I adore coffee. I drink way more of it than I should.

My current set up includes the Cusinart Grind and Brew Thermal Carafe

I have a Capresso burr grinder as well.

More variety of beans than I can count

the new All Clad Coffee Urn

Dualite Percolator (for the RV)

I should add I have two Braun automatic drips as well, one white and one Black

I'm looking forward to this forum!

Edited November 18, 2003 by Marlene (log)

[beans]

Someone say beans?!

I never thought much about it, but I too have an loving obsession with coffee and tea! Particularly when I take a look in my china cabinet and see all of the various coffee and tea services I have collected -- regular everyday pattern, my few china patterns, and the whimsical sets. Hmmmmm. This does not include all of the lawfirm name logos or Mouse coffee cups either!

I have those little espresso pots, on old crappy espresso machine I've used twice (I ought to consider 'free to a good home'), my darling Francis!Francis! espresso machine, a bodum coffee press, two coffee grinders, a small Krups (used to be in my office) and a large Krups coffee maker, a serious Alessi teapot, countless tea strainers, six types of bagged teas, two loose teas, an unknown amount of various coffees in my freezer and espressos (loose, instant for baking and pods)......

OMG! I am hooked!

Great forum.

[MGLloyd]

Woo hoo! Our own forum! We should also post a message on Coffeegeek pointing people to this venue as well.

[GG Mora]

Is this the coffee confessional? I, too, have way too much paraphernalia:

• Francis!Francis! X5
  
• Braun auto-drip (Aromatic? or something)
  
• Melior 8-cup French press (though at my house, it's more like a 2-cup)
  
• Ancient Moka pot for use when the power goes out (or when camping)
  
• Braun burr grinder
  
• Armin-Trosser hand-grinder
  

Until very recently, we were using Illy pods, which we were getting through the Illy membership agreement we took on in order to get that sweet little F!F!X5 machine. Now we've gotten through the one-year agreement and can't afford the pods (for the time being, anyway). I hold what may be rather unpopular opinions about coffee, but we really LIKE Illy. Now, here's the really unpopular part (she prepares to be scatter-shot with several pounds of under-roasted robusta beans): we're currently using pre-ground Cafe Bustelo in the F!F!. And we like that, too, for precisely the reasons that most people don't: it's over-roasted to the point of being burnt and tastes almost smokey, plus it's very acidic and has enough caffeine to give you the DTs after two cups. Yum.

And I hate tea.

[grandcru]

Huzzah, huzzah! Benvenuto, Owen. This forum is a GRRRRREAT idea. I'm sure you'll help make this the heady crema on the top of our eGullet espresso. I'll definitely be a regular lurker, and chime in when appropriate.

[Craig Camp]

I have a beat up old moka, but the bar two minutes walk from our house has a espresso machine that I think cost more than an Ferrari - and looks almost as good. I let them make my espresso.

[hillbill]

Well this is just super-duper cool because my recent obsession with a desire to start drinking some decent coffee has been my entree into the brave new world of contemplating the quality and taste of the stuff I stick in my meGullet.

[phaelon56]

we're currently using pre-ground Cafe Bustelo in the F!F!. And we like that, too, for precisely the reasons that most people don't: it's over-roasted to the point of being burnt and tastes almost smokey, plus it's very acidic and has enough caffeine to give you the DTs after two cups.  Yum.

Back in the dark days of the late '80s when I was emerging from years of haze.... I had a GF of Puerto Rican ancestry. She introduced me to Hispanic style coffee. Just boil some water, throw in a generous amount of Bustelo to steep for several minutes and then pour it through the little cloth windsock style filter assembly that the bodegas and Spanish markets sell. Add 1 part hot milk to 1 part coffee - yum! It was way better than the espresso I could get at the time. I still enjoy stoping into the little Spanish luncheonettes when I'm in NYC and getting a cafe con leche - threy just use Bustelo in an espresso machine and add the hot milk and sugar. At about $1 a pop it's better than most of the $3 and $4 you can buy elsewhere in the city.

Now we've gotten through the one-year agreement and can't afford the pods (for the time being, anyway). I hold what may be rather unpopular opinions about coffee, but we really LIKE Illy.

Chris Coffee has pods that are a trifle cheaper and likely taste darn close to Illy but they still net out to 50 cents each. I've seen the Illy for under 60 cents each. It's just in hte nature of pods that they'll always cost more. Good quality fresh microroaster coffee should run about $12.00 per pound if you buy online and spread the shipping costs across a multi-pound order (see recent thread on freezing for how to handle and store a quantity of fresh coffee). Assuming that you use 7 grams per shot to make espresso ( I use 18 grams for a double shot in my machine but the Francis basket should hold about 7 grams per shot for a single shot)..... cost per shot for the coffee is about 18 cents vs. 59 cents for the Illy pods. With a good grinder, quality whole bean espresso blend and proper technique, you'll get espresso that's noticeably better than the pods but that doesn't factor in the convenience factor. Long term, I've found that once I got a routine established for my shot making process, it became quick, relatively tidy and quite painless. The reduced cost and increased quality justify an investment in a good grinder when you're ready.

[GG Mora]

Chris Coffee has pods that are a trifle cheaper and likely taste darn close to Illy but they still net out to 50 cents each. I've seen the Illy for under 60 cents each. It's just in hte nature of pods that they'll always cost more.  Good quality  fresh microroaster coffee should run about $12.00 per pound if you buy online and spread the shipping costs across a multi-pound order  (see recent  thread on freezing for how to handle and store a quantity of fresh coffee).  Assuming that you use 7 grams per shot to make espresso ( I use 18 grams for a double shot in my machine but the Francis basket should hold about 7 grams per shot for a single shot).....  cost per shot for the coffee is about 18 cents vs.  59 cents for the Illy pods.  With a good grinder, quality whole bean espresso blend and proper technique, you'll get espresso that's noticeably better than the pods but that doesn't factor in the convenience factor.  Long term, I've found that once I got a routine established for my shot making process, it became quick, relatively tidy and quite painless.  The reduced cost and increased quality justify an investment in a good grinder when you're ready.

Thanks for the feedback, Owen. To be clear, I'm perfectly happy NOT to use pods...we're packing the powdered Bustelo for shots, after all. And we do have several cans of pods lurking around for special occasions. The bottom line is that, while I'm not technically unemployed, I haven't actually been paid for nearly 4 months, thanks to Ford's implementation of a miraculous (not) new accounting system for their suppliers. So I have an income out there in cyberspace somewhere, it's just not making it into my hands, currently. Bustelo is the house brand for now – mighty fine at $2.50 a can. And once we're liquid again, I'll start sniffing out alternatives.

FWIW, I have a Braun burr grinder, which produces a swell grind if you don't mind being sprayed with coffee from the static. Someday, I'll upgrade to a better unit. Any suggestions?

BTW, when I was in Paris in the spring of '01 (the euro was @ 95¢), Grand Epicerie had the cans of Illy pods for just under 5 euros a piece. Bet yer ass I loaded my suitcase with them.

[Marlene]

The capresso grinder I have has different settings for fine, coarse, perked etc. It also has different settings for the amount you want to grind. 4 cup, 8 cup 12 cup etc.

It's a great grinder!

[phaelon56]

If you want to see a noticeable improvement in your espresso and also want to make a good long term investment.... look for a used Rancilio Rocky in good shape (should be available for about $175 or so) or consider an Anfim or Cunill Tranquilo. The latter two, especially the Cunill, are noisier but all three are solidly built - really a semi-commercial quality that will yield many years of life from the burrs, also running cooler (cooler = better for the beans) and giving more consistent particle size. New price range for these units will be just under $200 uo to $250 or so if you shop around. The cool looking new Kitchenaid is a retro style based on their old grinder that has been around for many years. It's said to be rugged and excellent for drip and press pot coffee but not quite exacting enough to deliver best results for espresso.

Short of a full size commercial grinder, the penultimate is the Mazzer Mini. It's about $375 or a bit more these days and very tough to find used. The only likely reason someone would ever sell one is if they got an unbeatable deal on a Jolly or Robur (larger mazzer commercial grinders). The Mini is actually a commerical grinder designed for use in smaller volume cafes. I cringed at spending that much on a grinder and now can't imagine using anything else - it's that good. I'll hand it down to my daughter 40 years from now when I'll be getting coffee from an IV - until then I can't imagine needing any other grinder.

[fredbram]

I have a beat up old moka, but the bar two minutes walk from our house has a espresso machine that I think cost more than an Ferrari - and looks almost as good. I let them make my espresso.

Don't rub it in Craig, just one more reason that we should be living in Europe instead of USA. In Denver, there are about two baristas in the entire city that can make a good espresso/latte.

It would be wonderful if this forum could contribute to increasing the quality of espresso brewed in the espresso bars of the US.

Meanwhile, I will continue to brew at home--Owen I found your website about 8 months ago, and you have helped me improve my home lattes immensely--thank you! Unfortunately, you've also made it much more difficult for me to settle for what is commonly available on the street in Denver. Oh well. Welcome to egullet.

[phaelon56]

In Denver, there are about two baristas in the entire city that can make a good espresso/latte.

Unless I missed them in my searches.... that's about double the number of comparable baristas in Manhattan. In all fairness to pruveryprs of espresso/lette in Manhattan, I haven't tried them all but the only one I've heard of who seems to hit the mark sometimes is Higher Grounds on the Lower East Side (and even there it seems to be very much contingent on who's behind the bar).

[hillbill]

we're currently using pre-ground Cafe Bustelo in the F!F!. And we like that, too, for precisely the reasons that most people don't: it's over-roasted to the point of being burnt and tastes almost smokey, plus it's very acidic and has enough caffeine to give you the DTs after two cups.  Yum.

Back in the dark days of the late '80s when I was emerging from years of haze.... I had a GF of Puerto Rican ancestry. She introduced me to Hispanic style coffee. Just boil some water, throw in a generous amount of Bustelo to steep for several minutes and then pour it through the little cloth windsock style filter assembly that the bodegas and Spanish markets sell.

I've been using one of those socks (colador de tela) becasue someone recommended it as a cheap way to make better coffee (I got one for 99 cents at Western Beef.) I tried it first with the Bustelo coffee but I didn't care for the taste, it was too bitter and "burnt" for me. And now that I'm learning a bit about what makes for good coffee it seems that the espresso grind of those Cuban coffees is the opposite of what's best for the sock method becuase the grind is espresso fine, and so regardless of wheter or not it's burnt the coffee will be overextracted.

So I bought some Eight O'Clock beans that I've been grinding in a blade grinder and it is a huge improvement over any other coffee I've had anytime recently. And I ordered a French Press to replace the sock.