Passover 2002–2005

[Gifted Gourmet]

I still lipsync the lines as I watch it ...

Oh yeah.. and Yul looks awesome as he gets into that Pharoah combat military getup, in that scene right before he jumps into the chariot to chase down the Hebrews.

Its not Pharoah's fault, really, though. I think Nefretiri was the ultimate nagging bitch wife that sent him over the edge.

It's always the wife as the plague no one dares to mention!

[KatieLoeb]

BTW the actual "Seder" scene in the Ten Commandments makes no sense to me. I mean, the kid starts asking the Four Questions (like, he becomes the first kid ever to ask the Four Questions -- uh, no) and Moses explains why we eat bitter herbs and Matzah. Say what? The whole point of the Matzah question is to explain the whole rushing out of Egypt thing, which happens LONG AFTER that scene!

So let it be written... so let it be Done!

Y'know - the stunning logic of this had escaped me until you just now pointed it out! How could there be a Seder pre-Exodus???

The scene with the blood of the Paschal lamb being painted over the doors of the Jewish homes and the sight of the creeping black fog that symbolizes the Angel of Death coming for the Egyptian first born with all the shreiking and crying in the background never fails to make my flesh crawl just a bit. No matter how many times I've seen that film.

The painting of The Last Supper is supposed to be a passover Seder. But why are they all sitting on the same side of the table???

[Gifted Gourmet]

The painting of The Last Supper is supposed to be a passover Seder.  But why are they all sitting on the same side of the table???

Wouldn't be nearly so revelatory if one just sees backs of these men ....

and then too who would buy that on black velvet??

Doesn't the photographer always get everyone at the table to stand on one side during Bar/Bat Mitzvah dinner-dances??

Edited April 8, 2004 by Gifted Gourmet (log)

[SobaAddict70]

Kugel -- Most of the year it is traditionally a noodle pudding or some other variation.  At Passover, no noodles but potato is OK.  I usually make a fruit one with apples, prunes, matzah meal, eggs & cinnamon.  There are any number of variations just as long as you leave out the hametz -- the various forbidden grain products.

Tzimmes -- Yes, again, most well known with carrot but the variations are only limited by the cooks imagination.  The word literally means a great deal of fuss or excitement as in "Calm down, don't make such a tzimmes."  Though cooking a tzimmes does not have to be a tzimmes.

Thanks, man.

I knew I heard of an apple kugel somewhere but didn't want to put my foot in my mouth.

One of these days there has to be a Passover blog. (but probably not likely. would make for interesting reading though, I'm sure...

Soba

[Gifted Gourmet]

One of these days there has to be a Passover blog. (but probably not likely. would make for interesting reading though, I'm sure...

We actually contemplated such a thing calling it "Matzoblog from Hell" .. but were so damned busy with our complaining about the cleaning and prep that it got lost in the shuffle ... next year the blog .. from Jerusalem, to be sure!!

[KatieLoeb]

Doesn't the photographer always get everyone at the table to stand on one side during Bar/Bat Mitzvah dinner-dances??

So THAT'S where that started! As always, you are a veritable font of information...

[Gifted Gourmet]

Doesn't the photographer always get everyone at the table to stand on one side during Bar/Bat Mitzvah dinner-dances??

So THAT'S where that started! As always, you are a veritable font of information...

I think the more precise wording might read "a veritable font of extraneous misinformation" .. something my father was famous for ... he knew trivia before there was an internet, a Google .. how he would have loved that!!

[bloviatrix]

Soba -- matzo brei is a traditional Pesach dish, but it's very casual food eaten during the week. Some eat it for breakfast, others at lunch or dinner.

[bloviatrix]

We set a record this year for ending the seder. Night 1 was about 2:15 and night 2 was closer to 3 am.

And to think this is a holiday where you're supposed to involve the kids.

[cakewalk]

Soba, you would make a perfect Seder guest.

There's a lot of strange stuff going on during the Seder, and that's deliberate. The whole purpose is to get the kids interested, and, most important, to get them to ask questions. The questions are then supposed to lead into the telling of the Exodus story (aka, the Haggadah). The most interesting Seders I've been to are the ones where there are people who are not familiar with the ritual and therefore ask questions about what is going on. The kids always ask, and that is nice in itself, but there's a limit to the ways in which you can answer them.

And this year the hostess inadvertently left the roast potatoes in just a tad too long, so they were a little burned -- which is just the way I like them.

Worst candy -- those fruit slices win every year, no matter how much they try to "improve" them.

[Jason Perlow]

We set a record this year for ending the seder. Night 1 was about 2:15 and night 2 was closer to 3 am.

And to think this is a holiday where you're supposed to involve the kids.

Why so long? Do you have one of those War and Peace hagaddahs?

[Gifted Gourmet]

We set a record this year for ending the seder.  Night 1 was about 2:15 and night 2 was closer to 3 am. 

And to think this is a holiday where you're supposed to involve the kids.

Why so long? Do you have one of those War and Peace hagaddahs?

I like that comment, Jason! ... I think one can opt to embellish or not, depending upon the age of the participants ... my mother is 92 and is finished with the entire story by the end of the first cup ... whereas my brother, a nouveau chasid, loves to expound and go on and on ... to my way of thinking, he does it in slow motion so it can become quite excruciating ... I want to press the button that fast forwards the seder at times!!.... but he is sweet so we allow him this small mishegas ...

When one "finishes" by the clock is often considered a barometer of one's religious devotion to the holiday, so one dare not "rush" the process .. only happens once or twice per year ...

[SobaAddict70]

Why is there a second seder? (Is that how many nights it lasts? I seem to remember something about a seder every night Pesach lasted but I can't remember if my memory is going or if I misread it.)

heheh, thanks Cakewalk. When you wrap the matzohs (matzahs?), do they get wrapped in napkins or cloth? I mean at the table.

Soba

[Gifted Gourmet]

Why is there a second seder? (Is that how many nights it lasts? I seem to remember something about a seder every night Pesach lasted but I can't remember if my memory is going or if I misread it.)

heheh, thanks Cakewalk. When you wrap the matzohs (matzahs?), do they get wrapped in napkins or cloth? I mean at the table.

Soba

Funny you should ask, boychik!!

http://jewish.com/askarabbi/askarabbi/askr4755.htm

One can wrap the afikomen in either knapkins or cloth .. doubt that it matters ...

[bloviatrix]

Why is there a second seder? (Is that how many nights it lasts? I seem to remember something about a seder every night Pesach lasted but I can't remember if my memory is going or if I misread it.)

Soba, it's funny you should ask that question because that's one of the reasons we ran so late on the first night.

In Israel, Passover is celebrated for 7 days with 1 seder. In the diaspora, we celebrate 8 days with 2 seders. The reasons for this is that way back, 2000 years ago, we didn't have fancy calendars and such and the extra days were added as a precautionary measure in case the calendar got mixed up. It's kind of like widening the strike zone -- the more days you have the greater chance you'll be celebrating at the proper time.

Now, you are thinking "but nowadays, we know the correct dates, why not celebrate the 7 days w/one seder?" But, the way it works is that once you're doing something it becomes part of the tradition and can't be changed -- there's no going back.

At our table we were debating the "when in Israel for Passover do you hold by 1 or 2 sederim and 7 or 8 days" issue. I go by the requirements of the land -- a when in Rome attitude. My bil disagrees.

[clothier]

Would it be entirely too off-topic to describe what a typical seder is like from start to finish? I've never been to one and would love to go to one, one of these days. Oh well, maybe next year.

Are there differences in proceedings, for instance, between Askhenazim and Sephardim?

Thanks in advance,

Soba

Consider this your official invatation to come to Michigan next year to celebrate Seder with my family and me. We'd love to have you.

When I was a kid, my folk's house was the official site for interns and residents to celebrate all the jewish holidays as their home away from home. It was always neat learning how other people did the holidays from all over the country.

[cakewalk]

Why is there a second seder?

Just to add a little to Bloviatrix's explanation: Just about every Jewish holiday is celebrated for an extra day outside of Israel.

The first day of each holiday is always on such-and-such day of the Jewish month. Passover is the 15th day of the Hebrew month of Nissan. The Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar. In order to know when the 15th day is, you have to know when the first day is. (Duh.)

As Bloviatrix said, in the olden days the calendar wasn't set. The only way to tell when the new month began was to take a look and see if the new moon was out yet or not. The new moon could appear on only one of two particular days each month. If it didn't appear on the first of those days, then the new month began on the next day.

The date of the beginning of each new month was decided upon in Jerusalem (there is still a monthly ceremony to celebrate the new month). That date was relayed by messenger (no e-mail back then) to other parts of Israel. Of course it was impossible to spread this information too far (e.g., outside of Israel) on time for it to matter regarding holidays, etc.

So, the actual date of the new month (the siting of the new moon) could never be certain outside of Israel. Therefore, for example, the 15th of Nissan could be one of two days. To be sure they were celebrating the holidays on the correct days, people outside of Israel celebrated them on both possible days.

So, in Israel there is only one seder, since they "know" when the 15th of Nissan really is. Outside of Israel we don't know, so we're stuck celebrating two days, and having two seders. Just to be on the safe side.

When I first moved to Israel I didn't know any of this, and I was shocked that there was only one seder. Now that I'm back in the States, I grumble over having to deal with a second seder. There's just no pleasing me.

[bloviatrix]

We set a record this year for ending the seder.  Night 1 was about 2:15 and night 2 was closer to 3 am. 

And to think this is a holiday where you're supposed to involve the kids.

Why so long? Do you have one of those War and Peace hagaddahs?

Wait there's more -- we went so long, that we didn't even bother with Achad Mi Yodeah, Chad Gadya, or Adir Hoo. And the singing is my favorite part.

But, I got out of saying the 4 Questions for the first time in my life. BONUS!!

Edited April 8, 2004 by bloviatrix (log)

[jackal10]

But somehow we manage to determine the single day for Yom Kippur..

[JFLinLA]

Two stories:

At seder #1 this year, my daughter complained about still being the youngest and having to again ask the 4 questions (she'll be 12 next month). My "baby" brother gave her no sympathy and explained how long he was the youngest. Without missing a beat, that little balabosta in training looked at him and said, "Well if you go make me some cousins, I wouldn't have to be the youngest anymore." Gawd, I love that kid.

The very first time I had Passover with my husband's family was truly awful. It was the spring before we got married. Everyone sat down around my MIL's table and opened their Haggadahs. Uncle Joe took a big breath and began to chant/drone on in Hebrew. I don't think he stopped for an hour. Somewhere along the way there must have been questions and removing drops of wine from the glasses but I can't recall. Needless to say, I very soon explained to him that the holiday could be fun, interesting, funny, engaging, etc. and that when we finally had our own home, things would be different. He had never known anything different.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Still Passover-related and food topically correct:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/09/nyregion/09CIRC.html?hp

[cakewalk]

But somehow we manage to determine the single day for Yom Kippur..

Thank God for small favors!

But to "atone" for that (groan) -- Rosh Hashana is two days everywhere, even in Israel.

[Rachel Perlow]

Just when you thought you'd seen pretty much everything, comes this from Jewish World Review:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/kosher/pa...rinter_friendly

I like their title "Tastes Great, Less Chometz" .....

Has anybody tried this K for P beer? We don't live too far from the brewery... hmm...

[bloviatrix]

Still Passover-related and food topically correct:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/09/nyregion/09CIRC.html?hp

Along those lines, the matzo eaters were out in full force at Opening Day at Yankee Stadium according to one of my friends who was there.

My Passover memory as a kid -- my dad taking me to see the Easter Show at Radio City Music Hall (I know, sacreligious). And bringing matzo sandwiches for lunch. As a teenager, since we were off from school the whole week, we would go shopping in Manhattan during chol moed. We were too embarrassed to eat our matzo sandwiches in public so we'd eat them in a dressing room at Saks while supposedly trying on clothes.

[Gifted Gourmet]

As a teenager, since we were off from school the whole week, we would go shopping in Manhattan during chol moed. We were too embarrassed to eat our matzo sandwiches in public so we'd eat them in a dressing room at Saks while supposedly trying on clothes

On the intermediate days of Passover, my daughter, who was on her school vacation, and I hit the malls with our matzos, KP yogurt, and small bottles of CocaCola which was also kosher for Pesach .... we took little lunch sacks with our "stash" .... once while she was trying on clothes at the Gap, she dropped the glass bottle, the bottom of it fell out, and Coke flooded the dressing room .. we snuck out after trying to dab it up ... but it was the Gap, not Saks, like Bloviatrix mentioned ...