The Terrine Topic

[Adam Balic]

The English pork pie is basically a terrine after all.

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Technically, it is more a pâté. The original pâtés of France were encased in dough and kept for a long time. Now the distinctions are somewhat blurred, but it is commonly understood that a terrine is a preparation of meats/fish/forcemeats/vegetables etc. baked in an earthenware dish (the terrine), and a pâté en croûte is baked in a case of dough in some mold or terrine. But some preparations called "pâtés" are actually terrines, so there you go.

I think the main difference between French-style and English-style pâtés/meat pies is the dough but basically they have the same origins. French style: the dough is thick and hard, meant to isolate the inside and preserve its flavors, and in the case of pâté en croûte is it not meant to be eaten. The English hot-water raised dough is delicious to eat but it is not used in French cooking. French pâtés encased in puff pastry or butter/lard shortcrust are generally eaten warm, dough and all. They are lovely old-fashioned dishes, worth reviving.

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More information on English pies Ivan Day's Pies

Quite right. Orginally, many of the crusts of the English style pies were not meant to be eaten either. The pie was a way of preserving meat or protecting it for transportation. English pork pies are a survivor of a greater tradition, yesterday I heard a lecture on the history of English pies and it was mentioned that there was some evidence to suggest that the crust were not always eaten even in small pies ('chewits') and in some cases was recycled.........

Edited April 17, 2005 by Adam Balic (log)

[bleudauvergne]

Here are the pictures of the rabbit terrine which I put together this weekend.

The process is relatively easy and does not require any special skills. There are many very simple recipes for terrines, and this does require steps, but I can say that the whole process is simple in terms of technique. I read several recipes for rabbit terrine, and had begun the project with the idea that I would simply do what struck me as I worked my way through the process, so things changed this way and that as the process developed. It actually did not take long once I got working nor was it difficult. The most technical thing about the whole thing is boning the rabbit, and with a shrp knife, it's a pleasure.

The evening before, as I had dinner on, I took some time to bone the rabbit, and chop the poitrine, as well as a few slices of cured ham. I didn't measure the ingredients, since I was making it to fit my loaf cake pan, I don't have any special terrine pans. I had two saddles and two hind legs. I boned and chopped the meat from one saddle, and removed the meat carefully in two pieces from one side of the saddle, and flattened the haunch filet. There is one large flat thin filet that extends down from the ribs, which is darker meat, and a larger thicker white meat morsel along the haunch that can be flattened by slicing in and folding in increments. These I set aside and then minced the rest of the meat. I prepared a marinade as follows:

1/4 cup white wine

1/4 cup olive oil

1 T. good herbes de provence

2 bay leaves

some crumbled sage

chopped parsley

pepper and salt

The rabbit, including the larger pieces, was set in the marinade, covered with plastic wrap in the bowl, and left to marinate overnight.

With the bones, I made a small stock, with onion, carrot, the skin from the ham, some leek greens, parsley, bay leaf, and some sage. This was simmered for an hour and then left to cool overnight. The next morning, I strained the stock and set it to reduce.

I then made the duxelles, (Olney does not put duxelles in his rabbit terrine, nor does he use cream when he does prepare duxelles, but I like to do that) which contains:

2 T. butter

1/2 minced white onion

about 200g champignons de Paris (white mushrooms)

salt & pepper

3T. creme fraiche

1T. lemon juice

2T. chopped fresh parsley

Mince the mushrooms (I did this in 30 seconds in the moulinex), and start the onions and butter over medium heat until they soften and start giving off their juice. Add the minced mushrooms, and let simmer, stirring from time to time, until they release their juice, continuing until all of the juice is evaporated. You have to watch it more closely near the end, it takes about 15 minutes from beginning to end. Add the creme fraiche to bind it, the lemon juice to brighten it, and season. Add the parsley at the end.

Then make the panade:

1 clove of garlic

about 100g. of yesterday's bread, crusts removed

Mash the garlic and the bread in the mortar.

By this time, the stock should be just about reduced to where you want it, you should have 2 or 3 tablespoons.

Add the reduced stock and mush it till it's a paste.

I then added a bit of water to this and stirred it over heat to make it smoother. I reduced it until it was a paste.

The rest is simple, I just put together the forcemeat:

the 250g. chopped fresh poitrine (which is the meat that bacon's made from but it's not smoked)

a couple of thin slices cured ham (de savoie, proscuitto, or country ham)

the duxelles

the panade

a splash of cognac

seasonings:

nutmeg, pepper, a good dose of salt, some creole seasoning (or cayenne if you haven't made any creole seasoning), and some more herbes de provence

and some pistachios which I parboiled and peeled before roughly chopping

Once that was combined with the chopped rabbit, I spread the flattened and marinated filets with dijon mustard and rolled up some carrots and parsley in the flattened filets which had marinated overnight:

These were then rolled

The meat was very pliable and they rolled up nice and easily, and stayed put. If I had known they would roll so nicely I would have done at least 2 more like that because they will have a nice effect in the terrine.

I then simply assembled the terrine:

This fat is called "bard" in France.

Fill in the bottom and make a channel for the rolls to be fit in end to end. I would have made more rolls and fit them in if I had the chance. I can even imagine making three rolls, and putting them in in such a way that they would make a heart shape in the terrine. But I didn't do that. I just had enough to do one roll in the middle. (the rolls looked strangely phallic and I didn't upload them but if you really want to see them I will upload the pictures.)

After the rolls were put in, I took the pits out of a few marinated black olives I had in the fridge and did one row for a stripe of color.

Then rest of the stuffing was mounded in, the bard folded over the whole thing, and it went into a bain marie for 1.5 hours. After that I fitted a piece of cardboard covered with foil the size of the inside of my tin, placed to glasses on top, and weighed it down with a big book. I followed Richard Olney's advice to do this over a pan, and I got lots of juice which went into that night's soup. When that was done and it was cool, I poured just enough duck fat over the top to seal it and it's in the fridge now. I want to cut it on Friday, we're going to have some people over for dinner.

[bleudauvergne]

OK the pics are up. I don't want to cut into it before its time, so that will be this Friday. I think the next terrine will be a veggie terrine.

[petite tête de chou]

Incredible.

I will now believe that even *I* can prepare a terrine. Thank you Lucy.

I've seen quite a few terrines that seem to use gelatin, but I see that you didn't.

Does it serve another purpose aside from holding the terrine together and adding a lovely gloss?

What is "bard?" Is it used for other dishes?

[spaghetttti]

^ I was just about to ask the same question - is bard = caul? Oh my, as usual Lucy, your photos are exquisite!

[Adam Balic]

"Bard" is the thin slices of pork backfat that you can see lining the terrine. It takes a little practice to get it in such lovely thin sheets as bleudauvergne has here.

bleudauvergne - wonderful photographs of the process, really really nice.

I mentioned galantine making for today, unfortunately I have too much work on this week, so I will have to put it off until ~28th, sorry.

[bleudauvergne]

"Bard" is the thin slices of pork backfat that you can see lining the terrine. It takes a little practice to get it in such lovely thin sheets as bleudauvergne has here.

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Practice - or a butcher who will do it for you. If you explain to your butcher what you are doing they will normally cut it for you.

Caul is the lacy membrane that you wrap pates in (crépine). A butcher that buys the whole animal and carves them will have this, and if you have a butcher who normally sources offal, he can get it too. It comes from inside the abdominal cavity of the animal.

[Adam Balic]

Sadly not the butchers in Edinburgh, to my knowledge. As it is difficult to get fatback of the correct size etc, I mostly resort to green streaky bacon.

[bleudauvergne]

I'll bring some next time I'm up your way, Adam.

I have misspelled "bard" - it should be spelled "barde".

[SethG]

If you'd like to see what caul fat looks like, you could click here, to a short pictorial tour of the duck terrine I made last year. This was part of a sort of blog I did of some cooking projects I undertook while I was home on paternity leave.

This year's duck terrine came out just like last years'-- delicious! I may have to try rabbit.

I'm surprised caul fat is so hard to find in the UK. I get it here in Brooklyn at Esposito's, a store known for the cured Italian sausages it makes. They don't sell the caul fat retail but they've been pleased to sell it (and some much better fatback than I could get at the grocery store) to me for next to nothing.

Edited April 19, 2005 by SethG (log)

[M. Lucia]

This is a really wonderful thread- thank you for your thoroughness Lucy.

I make a vegetable terrine that is great for a light lunch.

Basically I layer roasted vegetables (red peppers, zucchini/courgettes and yellow squash, aubergine) with some chevre and tapenade (black olive). Spinkle herbs between the layers, weight, etc. Then I serve it with a parsley sauce. I love the presentation, it is stunningly colorful.

I never knew about all the types and history of terrines.

It's funny, they kind of remind me of all the aspics and gelled salads in the south U.S.

[bleudauvergne]

If you'd like to see what caul fat looks like, you could click here, to a short pictorial tour of the duck terrine I made last year. 

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Seth that step by step photo essay on your duck terrine looks amazing! Did you put the recipe in the Gullet? I am going to wait to see the results of the rabbit terrine to make sure it really turns out well before I post the full recipe.

I truly encourage anyone to go and take a look at Seth's process of making the duck terrine, it looked great. You cooked it in the bain marie, yes?

I make a vegetable terrine that is great for a light lunch.

Basically I layer roasted vegetables (red peppers, zucchini/courgettes and yellow squash, aubergine) with some chevre and tapenade (black olive). Spinkle herbs between the layers, weight, etc. Then I serve it with a parsley sauce. I love the presentation, it is stunningly colorful.

A veggie terrine is what I'd like to do next. Do you normally use gelatine? How long do you let it sit before you serve it?

[FoodMan]

Great thread people! I am a novice terrine maker, as in I bought a Le Creuset terrine mold a couple of months ago and so far made one terrine, a basic pork and veal one from Julia's Mastering the art,

Here are a couple of pics:

I have been planning on making a duck or rabbit terrine next. I am hopping to get more tips from this thread.

Seth- yours looks great, did you use Peterson's recipe from his Duck cookbook? I have the book and I want to try his recipe. I am not sure which one though, he has a tradional one and one with parsley. The both look excellent.

Elie

[bleudauvergne]

Elie, that looks great. I recognize the mustard in on the plate, but what's that other sauce you've got there?

I wonder if anyone would care to discuss the salt question.

The biggest struggle I end up with the fact that since I generally under salt my cooking, my terrines end up being a bit bland. It is surprising how some ground up meat which is sauteed and tasted, can taste more flavorful because it is warm. The real trick is patience -- cook up a bit of your terrine and let it COMPLETELY cool to see if it is seasoned well enough. I can't tell you how often I've ended sprinkling fleur del sel over slices of a finished terrine just to give it enough 'umph.

I've followed Jane Grigson's Charcuterie and French Pork Cooking a few times, and it's worked fine, although I tend to undersalt as well. It's surprising how much you need to put in these things.

I hope I haven't oversalted the rabbit terrine I've got in the fridge. I found myself sprinkling in salt everywhere in the whole process because I know that with food served warm, a salty taste comes through much more clearly than with than cold food. I have always tried to be mindful of that. However I think I may have been a bit too mindful this time. Anyway, the juice that came out when I pressed it was pretty salty.

One source I haves notes that in meat terrines the rule of thumb is 10 grams per kilo. I should retrace my steps and add up all of the salt I added along the way...

OK the marinade contained a pinch of salt. And the ham was salty. The fatty pork was not. The duxelles had salt a pinch and a half of salt. I did not salt the stock. I did add about a teaspoon more salt at the end. That's probably adding up to about - What the heck am I doing? I shouldn't be worrying about this terrine, I should taste it. If it tastes right, then I can remember so I can be sure to do the same thing the next time. If its oversalted, I'll have to be sure to measure and weigh and try for a certain salt level next time. Notes, must keep better notes...

[FoodMan]

Thanks for the kind words, I was very proud of my very first terrine. ALthough I should not have cut the recipe in half and I should've ended up with three layers instead of two. I was worried it might be too much for my mold. Oh, well, now I know.

The other sauce is actually onion marmalade.

Elie

[SethG]

Seth- yours looks great, did you use Peterson's recipe from his Duck cookbook? I have the book and I want to try his recipe. I am not sure which one though, he has a tradional one and one with parsley. The both look excellent.

Elie

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Thank you! I didn't know Peterson had a duck book. My recipe came from Glorious French Food.

Your terrine looks great, Elie.

[Carolyn Tillie]

A couple of things... Funny that the dark condiment was onion confit. I thought it was Moutarde Violet, my favorite spread on country pate!

Regarding the vegetable terrine, Lucy, I have made them with and without gelatine. Granted the ones with gelatine seem to hold better for slicing, but if I'm in a rush and its just for Shawn and I, then I might forego gelatin (which I usually make with some form of vegetable juice; carrot, tomato, bell pepper, etc.)

Foodman, your pate looks great, but where are your cornichons!?!?!? <grin>

[bleudauvergne]

The English pork pie is basically a terrine after all.

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Technically, it is more a pâté. The original pâtés of France were encased in dough and kept for a long time. Now the distinctions are somewhat blurred, but it is commonly understood that a terrine is a preparation of meats/fish/forcemeats/vegetables etc. baked in an earthenware dish (the terrine), and a pâté en croûte is baked in a case of dough in some mold or terrine. But some preparations called "pâtés" are actually terrines, so there you go.

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This explains, Ptipois, why in a 16th edition of a cookbook dated 1922 terrines are listed at the end of the book under "conserves". The following recipes (and I am absolutely serious) are included: Terrine de thrush and lark (in which 12 and 24 of each respectively are used), duck, partridge, foie gras, galantine of snipe!

This is the terrine illustrated for the foie gras.

[mizducky]

Fascinating. The one and only time I ever attempted to make a terrine, it was a vegetable one, using a recipe from the Victory Garden cookbook. It looked gorgeous, but I apparently way underseasoned it, as it was extremely bland in flavor. Kinda discouraging considering the amount of labor that went into it. But y'all are tempting me to have another go at some kind of terrine sometime ...

Question: head cheese counts as a kind of terrine, right? I have an unholy passion for the stuff, which I have to indulge in solo because I've yet to meet anyone else who can even abide the thought of it. I am sorely tempted to try and actually make some, one of these centuries--assuming I could find even find a whole calf's or pig's head to buy, let alone the courage to mess with it. (Needless to say, I'd also have to pick a time when Fearless Housemate was out of town for several days--bet a culinary stunt of this sort would have him running away screaming. Though that might be fun to watch ... )

Edited April 19, 2005 by mizducky (log)

[M. Lucia]

Lucy, For the roasted vegetable terrine I described earlier I do not use gelatin. I usually make it the day before so that it can rest at least overnight.

I have made vegetable aspics which obviously use gelatin, but I wouldn't really call these terrines.

[J Acord]

Adam, do you have any suggestions for where to get caul in Edinburgh? I've tried a couple of butchers to no avail.

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I would love to know as well. I have asked a few times and the butchers say that it is possible, but resturants tend to pre-order it (which ones I wonder, I have never seen any evidence of it). Oddly I was taking to a friend about this today he mentioned that he got his from a Turkish butcher. Sadly, this is in London.

Good back-fat is also an issue.

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Adam, next time you're down I'll give you some caul. Having just found it for sale I'll now have to make some dishes to use it in (braised ox-tail with a mushroom farce wrapped in caul perhaps?)

I have also used back-fat in the past (though I tried slicing it myself, quite difficult to do to get big enough peices to line the terrine) but usually end up using something like bacon or parma/serrano instead as it is just that bit easier to find/work with.

[Adam Balic]

J - once again you fall for my cunning 'poor little me' act. Bahahahahahaah!

But, caul sound good, tah.

[Blondelle]

I'm surprised with cookbooks on every topic you can think of there aren't any new updated ones on terrines & pates. They also would have been perfect for the low carb craze. I would love to see a cookbook that focuses on the beauty of them with fresh, bright colored vegetable ones where the design is also important when you cut slices, and see the patterns and colors. Ones that would be uncomplicated and easy to make with seasonal ingredients. Actually they could be the perfect one dish meal with meat and veggies combined. I think it's the complexity of the traditional ones that have kept these from everyday fare. Any cookbook authors here want to give it a shot?

[Adam Balic]

I have see some very interesting non-english books on the subject, but there seem to be a lack of such books in English.

J Acord and I have discussed the possiblity of using the enzyme discussed in this thread to create some interesting geometric forms, without too much difficulty.

Meat Glue

[FoodMan]

Foodman, your pate looks great, but where are your cornichons!?!?!? <grin>

I know it is sacrilage not to have them with pate but errrr...eh..I did not have any at the time .

Elie