TDG:The Last Article You Will Read On Ferran Adria

Fat Guy · August 21, 2003

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mise en place · August 21, 2003

"post-modern," "existential," "deconstructs,"... you forgot "impacted" and "logo-centric."

I've never dined at El Bulli, but I trust Adria's food is better than the writing about his food.

docsconz · August 21, 2003

This article would carry more weight if the author had first hand experience of his subject. Instead he is essentially "copying" the opinions of others.

timothycdavis · August 21, 2003

I normally don't do this, but what the hey.

to mise en place: i'd sure hope so. Secondly, I'll make sure I run it thru the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level test next time.

secondly, to docsconz: I wouldn't say I'm copying the *opinions* of anybody. Have you ever met Michael Jordan? Perhaps a Russell Crowe? Does one have to meet a person to have opinions on their importance in the grander scheme of things? Do you have opinions on things? Do they sometimes overlap other people's opinions and sometimes not?

these are just opinions and observations, this stupid column. that is all. just like y'alls. the give and take makes the world a beautiful place, and i thank you for them.

love,

timothy

(off to lunch on crow)

Fat Guy · August 21, 2003

I'll take "And if you'll look on your left, tarragon!" as my nominee for best line ever written about Adria. Or am I not allowed to say that, having not dined at his restaurant?

docsconz · August 21, 2003

Tim,

Your article is reasonably well written. I didn't say whether I agree or disagree with the opinions expressed. I would very much love to be able to form my own opinions based upon direct experience of Chef Adria's cuisine. Unfortunately, I have as yet been unable to do so.

What I did say is that your article would carry more weight if you were writing based on your direct experience and observation. The reason I put "copying" in quotes, was to note the irony of your discussion on Adria's admonishment of "do not copy". I am not suggesting that you copied in a plagiaristic fashion, but simply that your account by your own admission was based entirely on the observations of others and therefore not based on truly original materiel.

As far as your Michael Jordan analogy. I do not need to know him pesonally to experience his "art". I have witnessed it directly - enough that I can speak of it from a first hand account. It would be much different for me to wax rhapsodic about how much an "artist" Babe Ruth or Jackie Robinson were since I didn't experience their work directly. Were they great players? From all the accounts of direct observation and the record books they appear to have been and so I believe. It is different with the visual, literary or musical arts. While personally knowing an artist or at least about an artist might enhance the experience it is not esential in order to experience that persons creativity. This is more difficult with food.

Fat Guy · August 21, 2003

Nonsense. This is a piece of social criticism not a restaurant review.

GordonCooks · August 21, 2003

I guess I'm missing the point of the article.

The information would seem common to even the most casual foodie. It's more so an exercise in metaphor and hyperbole better suited to a reader unfamiliar with Adria or El Bulli. :huh:

Fat Guy · August 21, 2003

Actually I'm quite certain that almost any casual foodie you ask will tell you Adria is "the foam guy."

docsconz · August 21, 2003

Nonsense. This is a piece of social criticism not a restaurant review.

Social criticism?

As I said, it is not a bad article, but then again it doesn't really add anything new either. There has been a lot written about Adia and El Bulli. This is another piece, but why it this needs to be "the last article you will read on Ferran Adria (today)" is not clear to me. There is nothing in the article that definitive, and while pleasant enough, it is not particularly compelling given all that has already been written just on Egullet about Adria and El Bulli.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion - original or not :smile: - I never said othewise. I was not criticizing the opinions of the author. My original post was meant to point out an irony of the article itself, since the point of it seemed to be praising Mr. Adria's utter originality and admonishment to "copying". My subsequent post was in response to the author's apparent sensitivity to my original post. And this response - what difference does it make whether the piece was social criticism or a restaurant review?

GordonCooks · August 21, 2003

Actually I'm quite certain that almost any casual foodie you ask will tell you Adria is "the foam guy."

That's my point

Adria's The foam guy, he's been the foam guy for a while. We all agree he's the foam guy. Now, I hope to read an article about how

"Uptown Danny Boulud and his midtown west posse are off the hook with what they are stuffing into burgers. Foie Gras, Ribs and shit have turned the lowly american peasant food into a limo ride to Harry Winston's with daddy's Black card"

Fat Guy · August 21, 2003

Doc, it makes a difference because if you write a restaurant review without going to the restaurant you're a fraud, whereas if you write an essay about a chef and his place in society your attendance at the restaurant or lack thereof is not significant, or at least doesn't have to be. I'm not sure if you caught that the title was ironic -- thus the parenthetical "today" -- but I'm having trouble understanding your objection. Are you saying that nothing more should be written about Adria? Are you saying that what Tim has written is common knowledge? If so among what group of people? Are you saying that others have written exactly or almost exactly what Tim has written? If so whom and where?

timothycdavis · August 21, 2003

one man's "exercise in hyperbole and metaphor" is another man's "literature." not saying this is literature. Far from it.

to docsconz, the "last article you will read (today)" was a knock at how many articles there indeed are. thus the "today."

"Everyone is entitled to an opinion - original or not - I never said othewise. I was not criticizing the opinions of the author. My original post was meant to point out an irony of the article itself, since the point of it seemed to be praising Mr. Adria's utter originality and admonishment to "copying". "

I'm just not sure how i might have written this, an opinion piece, then. I'm ultimately writing in admiration of him and his creative style. many folks on here,even,give adria all sorts of shit. I'm sure (maybe) one of them have eaten here. I think Adria -- and his message -- need to be listened to and even promoted more, especially in this conservative age. That's all. Adria is more of an inevitability, a sort of living archetype of what I think we need more of.

My subsequent post was in response to the author's apparent sensitivity to my original post.

Just making sure I understood you.=)

And this response - what difference does it make whether the piece was social criticism or a restaurant review?

Social Crit. means I don't have to eat there.=) I'm not judging his foams, but rather looking at what they might mean. I know that's obvious, but it's the simple answer.

I have eaten great, adventurous food. In regards to the Jordan thing, I have played basketball. I know what the thing is like. I don't need Jordan dunking on my head to know he's a stud. It'd be cool, but would prolly cost as much as a meal at El Bulli.=)

Steven, can you get us a table with Ferran to settle this once and for all? :smile:

trillium · August 21, 2003

Nonsense. This is a piece of social criticism not a restaurant review.
And this response - what difference does it make whether the piece was social criticism or a restaurant review?

Because one you can do if you're a member or observer of said society and one you can do if you've eaten at the restaurant? Just a guess.

Me, I'm wondering if once all of the taste receptors get cloned he'll just go around spritzing agonists and antagonists in people's mouths and call it "dinner"? Personally, I don't much like performance art to overtly interfere with my eats...they'll be sewage soon enough.

regards,

trillium

timothycdavis · August 21, 2003

This is good! :biggrin:

"Uptown Danny Boulud and his midtown west posse are off the hook with what they are stuffing into burgers. Foie Gras, Ribs and shit have turned the lowly american peasant food into a limo ride to Harry Winston's with daddy's Black card"

I love the "foie gras, ribs and shit." It reads very beatnik-cum-Easy Rawlins.

Fat Guy · August 21, 2003

Adria's The foam guy, he's been the foam guy for a while.

But to categorize him as the foam guy when he's the leader of a culinary revolution is hardly accurate. Anybody who is hovering at that level of comprehension -- e.g., the average casual foodie -- needs to do a lot more reading.

GordonCooks · August 21, 2003

the "last article you will read (today)" was a knock at how many articles there indeed are. thus the "today."

There, NOW I get it. :shock:

I missed the irony in the title. It's a satirical look at the structure of the articles themselves rather than Adria or El Bulli.

Fat Guy · August 21, 2003

It's not so much the latter (satire) as the former (irony). Tim knows this is a media-saturated subject, but he also thinks he has something to add. And I agree.

Fat Guy · August 21, 2003

Note for those who missed the parenthetical "today" I think there was also the non-parenthetical "Oh, join the fucking club, you say."

docsconz · August 21, 2003

I'm just not sure how i might have written this, an opinion piece, then. I'm ultimately writing in admiration of him and his creative style. many folks on here,even,give adria all sorts of shit. I'm sure (maybe) one of them have eaten here. I think Adria -- and his message -- need to be listened to and even promoted more, especially in this conservative age. That's all. Adria is more of an inevitability, a sort of living archetype of what I think we need more of.

I guess what made me respond the way I did is that while his cuisine sounds and looks very exciting and I really, really want to experience it for myself, I don't KNOW that his cuisine really is worthwhile and not just a lot of hype. I don't KNOW that his particular message is worth promoting more. From all I've heard and read about it, I suspect it is, but until I experience it for myself, I'd be hesitant about fully jumping on the bandwagon. I guess I'm just a little cynical that way :smile:

docsconz · August 21, 2003

Steven, can you get us a table with Ferran to settle this once and for all?

I'll second this :biggrin: .

Andy Lynes · August 21, 2003

Foie Gras, Ribs and shit

I bet that has a flavour similar to well hung game, am I right?

Stone · August 21, 2003

Who considers Dylan to be original? He evolved from Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie. Pretty much everything evolves from something. (Unless you're a creationist and then, well, your opinion on the subject matters about as much as the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court (sorry, I'm just disgusted).) There is very little, certainly in the world of entertainment, that is truly original.

(And I thought the article was a fine social commentary, and I would say that you didn't have to visit the restaurant to discuss Adria's cooking in this manner. You never provide an opinion on the quality of what he's doing -- i.e., whether it's good. You only discuss what he's doing, and there doesn't seem to be any disagreement about that.)

Edited August 21, 2003 by Stone (log)

Fat Guy · August 21, 2003

Oops. I just read another article on Adria today.

Jinmyo · August 21, 2003

I squeezed a few drops of an article on Adria into my eye instead of reading it.

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