Trip to San Francisco, 9/24-9/27

[Gary Soup]

The Alemany Farmers' Market is on Saturdays, NOT Sundays (there's a flea market there on Sundays).

Good to see you here!

You're right, Alemany is Saturday. I rarely get there, as I am carless by choice (and we get most or our produce in Chinatown). I should have remembered that, as I'm well aware that the U.N. Plaza Market is on Sunday (as well as Wednesday) and a lot of the same vendors of Asian produce work both markets.

[girl chow]

Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions!

I am in the midst of retooling our eating plan. In the meantime, feel free to post your thoughts on my dining choices.

Thanks again!

[jschyun]

Thanks for your Seattle tips. Below is my attempt to return the favor.

This may be too cheap for you but here's my sf cheap eats thread

SF Cheap Eats

L'Osteria del Forno: THis is a tiny restaurant tucked in Little Italy, which is close to Fisherman's Wharf if you want to forgo that area. I disliked the sandwich I had here but I heard others liked the food, such as the pasta, roasted meats. Nearby you can get a post-dinner espresso at the Steps of Rome.

Fisherman's Wharf In & Out: This is the best burger place I've ever been to in my opinion, but you might not want to waste precious stomach space to a burger joint. However, if you do end up going here, I would order a cheeseburger "animal style" (I think that's extra pickles and tomatoes) They have options not on the menu (like "animal style") that you won't know about unless someone tells you. Just ask someone in line and they'll steer you right.

House of Prime Rib: This is my favorite meat restaurant in SF. It's about $30 a person after taxes for medium/large prime rib with all the fixings. It may be expensive, but it's a good value and it's always packed. At around 7pm, they come around with corn shaped cornsticks that I like, otherwise it's the usual steaming sourdough round. Also, the prime rib here is better than at Metropolitan Grill, and cheaper. I would get a reservation before going because it's really busy.

--note: if you go here make sure you get either Nick or Raul as your carver. The other guys skimp.

Zuni is somewhat high priced, but their half roasted chicken and caesar salad are legendary. Hmm, time I went back and visited the old place. This is near downtown.

Dim Sum: I like Ton Kiang's har gau, but parking is pretty horrible in the area (although you can get lucky). Sometimes, if you go in mid afternoon, parking is better and there are fewer people in the restaurant. But then again, sometimes not.

I hate to say this, but I haven't found much good food south of SF. My friend recently told me about Sonoma Chicken Coop in San Jose of all places but that's farther south than Millbrae.

Parking in SF: you're lucky you're staying in the airport area because parking charges there are only about $12 as opposed to $25 to $35 downtown. You can save quite a bit of money by avoiding parking garages and meters after 4pm or so. Just find a street that has 2 hour parking signs. Parking is usually free after 6pm. Therefore, if you find 2 hour parking at 4pm, you basically have free parking for the rest of the evening. So I would use this strategy around 4pm when you are looking for dinner spots. However, the 2 hour parking is a coveted spot so you may have to be aggressive in your search. These spots are usually a couple of streets away from a major street. I have had success parking a few streets from Ghiradelli Square (near Fisherman's Wharf) in the 2 hour spots, and a couple of streets from Van Ness when going to House of Prime Rib. Always check the signs.

Also, most meters are inactive after 6pm.

If you are in downtown, I would give up on this strategy and just park in the Mission parking garage, on Mission and Fifth. This is a huge parking structure that has pretty fair rates. It is a block to SFMoma, but I think you can only get validated at the Metreon mall next door. From here, you can walk two blocks or so to the cable car station or a little further to union square, where all the fancy shops are.

Edited August 12, 2003 by jschyun (log)

[slbunge]

I spent a brief weekend in SF (stayed in the Financial District) this past March and would strongly encourage saving your stomach for the food at the Ferry Plaza Farmers' Market. Though I live in Wisconsin, I was blown away by the dairy selections at the market. Had an amazing tub of clabbard cottage cheese from the Cowgirl dairy mentioned above.

June Taylor Jams has a stand and I imagine that a summer's worth of fantastic fruit will have been put up into jams, marmalades, and preserves by the time you go.

In addition to that, it looked like some good chow was coming from the makeshift restaurants at one end of the parking lot where the market was located...unfortunately I was full by the time I realized what they were serving.

Other highlights include a slice of cake from Citizen Cake. Zuni Cafe is strongly recommended (the best restaurant bread we had...and SF is a great city for bread). The outstanding tomato soup at Jeanty at Jack's would make a nice lunch if you are in the area.

Have a great trip.

[lisabobd]

I would suggest two places in San Francisco. I have eaten at Boulevard many times and never had a bad meal. Eating at the counter in the back near the open kitchen is a lot of fun. For a more casual spot try Ace Wasabi's in the Marina. A real scene and the sushi is great.

[lmswartz]

Napa: I recommend Tra Vigne in St. Helena. I've eaten there a bunch of times, and while it isn't cheap, the food and service have been consistently excellent. Dining under the trees on the patio, especially during a long leisurely lunch, is the best.

Chez Panisse: It's one of those places that you really need to go to at least once, and the food is outstanding both downstairs and in the cafe upstairs. That said, having eaten both downstairs and upstairs, I prefer upstairs. Downstairs is a good choice if you don't have anyone with food aversions or allergies who might not want to eat what's on the menu there that day (and you have to make your reservation well before the menu is set, so you never know what you'll be eating). The cafe upstairs is a lot more casual, (and sometimes it can be hot, crowded, and noisy), but the menu is a la carte with several options for each course, so everyone is sure to find something they like.

Fisherman's Wharf: I agree with the other posters in that there's not much good food there. To me, it's a sin to eat at the tourist traps there when there are so many better places to get food all over the city. I've only been to McCormick and Kuleto's once, a couple of years ago, and had such an awful meal that I've never returned. But I keep hearing good things about it (including the postive posts here), so maybe my experience was just an aberration for them. I like In & Out -- but if you're looking for real dining experiences, then just pop in for some fries (SO good) and have a real meal elsewhere. North Beach is an easy walk up Columbus and has lots of decent places.

Ah, so many things to try, and so little time!

[CityCook]

If I can stick up for my future alma mater for a sec, what about either The Careme Room or the Academy Grill at the California Culinary Academy? The Careme Room was actually rated one of the best food values in the City; dinner's relatively cheap because the food is a by-product of the education (M-F only). Their setups can be beautiful.

[alanamoana]

cca's my alma mater, and although i'm glad i went, i don't think i'd recommend it...nothing personal , just not the nicest neighborhood.

definitely ton kiang...FRESH dim sum

lulu just got a really nice write up and if you guys like wine, they have about 72 by the glass and over 300 on the list...the food is homey and tasty (the chef is a friend of mine).

in napa, there is now the wine center in old downtown called COPIA which is home to "julia's kitchen" homage to julia childs. my mentor is (the best) pastry chef of julia's kitchen and of pinot blanc, also in napa. i don't know about the food though.

there are a lot of new/lower priced ethnic (think unusual latino cuisine) in the mission on valencia and mission that will probably do you better than a gut busting burrito. buy the burrito from el farolito (the al pastor) and take it with you on the plane to make everyone jealous on your flight home.

check out www.sfgate.com for the bay areas up and coming chefs and their restaurants. seems to be some interesting action there.

also, note on fringale (that's hirogoyen isn't it?), anyway, i think he just opened another NEW restaurant at the site of his not so popular pastis on battery street. it's gotten favorable reviews.

I LOVE SAN FRANCISCO!!

[tanabutler]

Alanamoana is right. Definitely go to Copia in Napa. It's a knock-out—a $100 million facility dedicated to food and wine. They don't have their schedule published for your dates yet, though.

Give the gardens a tour. From the Copia website:

A docent-led tour of our 3.5 acres of organic gardens. Stroll through our edible landscape and discover a multitude of herbs, edible plants, fruit trees and flowering plants. Our garden is made up of 22 squares, each planted with a theme such as the Italian American Garden, the Copia Vegetable trials, and our intriguing Wine Descriptor Squares. See our demonstration vineyard, our Olive Groves and more. Tour times for are 12:00 and 2:00 tours can last up to 60 minutes and visit both our North and South Gardens.

Copia Virtual Tour

[NVNVGirl]

I've eaten a couple of times at the CIA....I wouldn't say the food is exactly memorable, but it's a very fun and different place to dine. And the food is definitely good. In Chinatown, if it were me, I'd just stroll along and find one of the little hole in the walls for dim sum...most of them are incredible and very inexpensive. In SF, I agree with the person here who said the Wharf is a culinary wasteland....go to Northbeach instead...tons of great Italian food there. In Napa, if it's a nice day, a great place to people watch with casual dining is Pacific Blues in Yountville at Vintage 1870....good burgers, sandwiches, wines and beer. Or if you want to do the picnic thing (I believe Chateau Montelena is a reservation type of thing...maybe that's just the island there tho) but there's always V. Sattui...they've got a great deli too...their wines sort of suck, but take your own. Have a great trip....I miss living there, but not the weather! Seana

[KatieLoeb]

Tana and I seem to have similar tastes. Check out my reply on this former thread Former thread about places to go and see. Silverado Trail is definitely where the good wineries are to be had. Sinskey also has a very cool Koi pond out in front in addition to the other cool things that Tana mentioned. I also enjoyed Niebaum-Coppola as well.

While in San Francisco proper I'd recommend a sunset drink at Top of The Mark bar at the Mark Hopkins Hotel. Unbelievable view of the city and all the attractions. Watch the sun set in an incredibly romantic atmosphere while sippin a proper "big girl" cocktail in a birdbath glass. Live piano music and true civility. Then the city is twinkling like a jewel at your feet once the sun has gone down. As Winnie the Pooh would say, "Heavy sigh..."

[Jaymes]

In Chinatown, I like R&G Lounge. Very, very good. Often mine is the only white face in the place.

[melkor]

Thursday, Sept. 25

lunch: We'll be in Napa all day, so we're hoping to find someplace with decent food at a bargain price (like under $50). We're open to anything. Give us suggestions for wineries to visit if you have favorites (we have a giant list going).

dinner: We love the idea of dinner at the CIA Greystone. What are your thoughts? It seems reasonably priced and the menu on the web site looks interesting. What do you think?

Start the day at Copia, visit the gardens, and check out the Forks in the Road exhibit upstairs. Check the website to see if there are any food or wine classes that interest you.

Have lunch at Taylor’s Refresher in St Helena - they have great burgers, amazing garlic fries, fish tacos, and a stellar wine list (for a burger stand). It'll be packed full of locals, one person should grab a table in the back and another should stand on line. You'll likely have lunch for $20 for two.

After you have lunch, go across the street and do a quick tasting at Merryvale - they are great people and they have good wine. From there head south a little to Zinfandel Lane, cut across on Zinfandel to the Silverado Trail and head south to Joseph Phelps for their patio tasting (nice people, great wine, amazing view and very very relaxed).

Skip the CIA, go from Phelps go south to Yountville, (cut across on Yountville Cross Rd), have dinner at Bistro Jeanty or Bouchon. Both are in the same price range as the CIA and both have much better food than the CIA. If you'd prefer Italian to French food, continue south on 29 and eat at Bistro Don Giovanni.

If you've got some time to kill between Phelps and dinner (you'll have 2 or 3 hours most likely), you can stop by one of dozens of wineries – Mumm’s not a bad place to spend an hour drinking sparkling wine – or go to Bouchon Bakery in Yountville and grab a few things to snack on. There are a few nice parks in town where you can relax and have a snack and enjoy the weather.

[tonkichi]

Hi from S'pore. Will be in USA early October. SIN-SF(1 day)-philadelphia (3 days for work)- Portland (6 days for New England holiday)- SF (1 day)- SIN. Have already posted in the New England section and made restaurant bookings based on the excellent recommendations in that forum.

We'll be in SF for about 2 full days. Not our first time in this wonderful city. Last time was 3 years ago. We ate well at Farallon (amazing decor), Lulu and Yank Sing. I am a Chinese, and I liked the dim-sum at Yank Sing. Things may have changed since I was last there though. We were happy to eat at the many sushi joints dotted around town - cheaper and fresher than what we are used to in S'pore. We were not impressed with Slanted Door, and breakfast at a diner near our hotel. Cheese Cake Factory was a bad mistake. The only regret was that we did not try Boulevard.

This time round, we will try to eat at Zuni and Danko. Will report on our adventures.

My question is where is this Ferry Market that is mentioned in some of the threads? Is it near Fisherman's Wharf? I thought Fisherman's Wharf a bit too touristy(yes, i was a tourist, but this place is over-commercialised), and am not keen to repeat a visit there when i could spend quality time gawking at William Sonoma and Sur La Table.

Edited September 9, 2003 by tonkichi (log)

[Roger McShane]

You simply cannot go to San Francisco without trying Zuni Cafe. It is one of the great foodie places in the world. The Wood oven roasted chicken with bread sauce is one of the best dishes you will experience. Every time I arrive in SFO that is the first place I head for.

Other places are obviously Chez Panisse and then Delfina.

[Suzanne F]

He Who Only Eats was in SF a few weeks ago. Tried to go to Zuni (only other time we ate there was shortly after it opened) but it's closed on Mondays. As was Absinthe. But he did eventually eat at Absinthe, and came home raving about his meal there. The Duck Confit was everything it should be, he said Also praised the Cucumber Soup and the Peach Tart with Blueberry Creme Fraiche Sorbet. I think this meal was AFTER he had indulged in a Vanilla Bean Ice Cream Sandwich on Ginger Molasses Cookies AND a serving of Santa Rosa Plum Sorbet at Citizen Cake! (He's a good eater! )

He also had a great burger and beer at 21st Amendment, and a very good Grilled Octopus app at Scala's Bistro.

[tanabutler]

I really like Scala's Bistro. It's consistently—food and service—one of our favorites, and really well-priced.

[snowangel]

You will hit a LOT of traffic heading east-if you come from your hotel you will hit ALL the city rush-hour traffic. I would recommend hanging out in Berkeley from 4 oclock on instead of driving over at dinnertime. Come and see some of our great food stores and have a piece of pizza at the Cheeseboard Collective (it is across the street from CP)

For your pre-airline return trip, while in Berkeley, a loaf from Acme, some fruit from Monterry Market and cheese from the Cheeseboard would be divine...

[babyluck]

Any Campton Place fans out there? I had a perfect, unforgettable meal there a few years ago.

[Gary Soup]

Hi from S'pore. Will be in USA early October. SIN-SF(1 day)-philadelphia (3 days for work)- Portland (6 days for New England holiday)- SF (1 day)- SIN..... My question is where is this Ferry Market that is mentioned in some of the threads? Is it near Fisherman's Wharf? I thought Fisherman's Wharf a bit too touristy(yes, i was a tourist, but this place is over-commercialised), and am not keen to repeat a visit there when i could spend quality time gawking at William Sonoma and Sur La Table.

Hi Tonkichi, your post was buried in the midst of a thread about another party's query.

The Ferry Plaza Market and the Ferry Building Market Hall are at the very east end of Market Street, not at FW. The Ferry Building is that landmark building with the big clock tower, I'm sure you spotted it the last time. It was recently renovated and seismically upgraded, and the main floor of the interior is now dedicated to food related shops, mostly small and upscale. Some of the shops are still under construction, but enough are open to make it worth a visit (as is the architecture and the water view).

The Ferry Plaza Market is a weekly "Farmer's Market" (with an upscale twist) on Saturday mornings outside the Ferry Building (there is a smaller version of it on Tuesdays, also.

[Squeat Mungry]

Hello,

I am brand new to eGullet, but I have been dining out (and in) in San Francisco for 30 years now. In my opinion, L'Osteria del Forno is overrated -- the food is quite good, but nothing special. For my money, much better Italian is to be had at either Acquerello or Delfina.

And for what it's worth, my new fine-dining favorite is Chez Spencer. The chef is Laurent Katgely (formerly chef at Foreign cinema, which now avoid at all costs), and the restaurant is located in the old Citizen Cake digs.

Cheers,

Squeat

[tanabutler]

Love your log-in name, Squeat Mungry.

[Squeat Mungry]

Love your log-in name, Squeat Mungry.

Thanks, Tana. It's based on a childhood memory of my father imitating a "fast talking New Yorker". For some reason, we kids thought it was hysterical! (Not everyone gets it at first. For those that don't, say it out loud a few times.)

And, to make this an on-topic post, I'll add for Girl Chow:

If you want to take some coffee home from your San Francisco trip, my advice is to skip Peet's and head straight for Graffeo Roasting Company on Columbus Ave. in North Beach. For my money, it's the best coffee to be had anywhere.

Cheers,

Squeat

[Squeat Mungry]

If you want to take some coffee home from your San Francisco trip, my advice is to skip Peet's and head straight for Graffeo Roasting Company on Columbus Ave. in North Beach. For my money, it's the best coffee to be had anywhere.

Ooops! Sorry, girl chow... I just realized you're from Seattle, so excellent coffee may not be tops on your list of San Francisco treats!

Still, if you're interested, try the Graffeo. I think you'll find it will stand up to many of the fine coffees available in your beautiful city!

Squeat

[mixmaster b]

Along with all the excellent advice given above, I would add Hess Winery on Mt Veeder in Napa. Go if you like contemporary art; they have a relly impressive collection which is an enjoyable break in a wine & food day. The wine is pretty good, too.

In SF, a great lunch or early dinner can be had at Mario's Bohemian Cigar Store In North Beach. Really delicious meatball or sausage sandwiches on focaccia, good cheap wine & food. Maybe a good spot for your Fisherman's Warf day.

Also, re Chez Panisse, I lean toward the downstairs restaurant. As everyone says, only do this if you are not set in your ways in terms of what you like to eat. But I find it more romantic, quieter, and more special than the Cafe. (Don't get me wrong, the cafe is great, too. As a person who grew up in Berkeley, Chez, upstairs or down, is one of my favorite restaurants.)

And for the Napa dinner, Bistro Jeanty has gotten such consistant praise from so many of e-gullet's gastromes that I would rush there if I were going to Napa.