Q&A -- Understanding Stovetop Cookware

[aliénor]

i spent the weekend with my grandchildren and after making loads of pancakes in a 9 inch skillet i have decided that i need a stovetop griddle, but can't decide what type-cast iron or non-ststick. in the non-stick variety there are many different choices of brands. my stove is a kitchen-aid with a high output burner and a low output directly behind it. so i was hoping that there may be someone out there who can help me with the decision.

thanks in advance for your help

[Kleatius]

Sam, may I ask a hypothetical question? Let's say I have $250, $500, and $750 to spend on a cookware gift for a newlywed couple -- novice cooks but eager to learn over time -- moving into a new home and currently in possession of zero utensils. How might you go about constructing some basic sets of cookware in those budget ranges? (In reality, I may be called upon to put together the $500 set on behalf of a group of friends going in together on a gift, in which case it's getting wrapped with a link to your lesson.)

Well... a great place to look is Bridge Kitchenware's What Every Kitchen Needs resource.

For stovetop cookware, they suggest:

- 1.5 qt saucepan

- 3 qt. saucepan

- Large Surface Saute Pan

- Medium Saute Pan

- Omelette Pan

- Steamer Insert

- Medium Covered Casserole

- Large Covered Casserole

- Pasta Pot w/colander

- Non-Stick Fry Pan

- S/S Double Boiler

Personally, I would modify the list to this:

- 1 qt. to 1.5 qt straight gauge saucepan, sauteuse evasee or curved sauteuse evasee (Amazon has a 1 qt. All-Clad MasterChef sauteuse evasee -- they call it a saucier -- for 35 bucks)

- 3.5 to 4.5 disk bottom tall saucepan (Bridge Kitchenware has a 4.5 qt. Paderno Grand Gourmet tall saucepan for 78 bucks)

- 11" disk bottom saute pan (Bridge Kitchenware has an 11" Sitram Profisserie saute pan for 68 bucks)

- 11" straight gauge fry pan (Cookware and More has a 10" All-Clad MasterChef fry pan for 60 bucks or a 12" All-Clad MasterChef fry pan for 70 bucks)

- 11" straight gauge nonstick frypan (Amazon has 11" Calphalon Commercial nonstick fry pans in occasional sales as low as 30 bucks)

- 6 qt to 7 qt enameled cast iron casserole (Pans.com has a 6.75 qt Chasseur casserole for 163 bucks)

- 12 qt to 18 qt disk bottom stock pot with pasta insert (Bridge Kitchenware has a 17.7 Sitram profisserie stock pot for 117 bucks)

That would comprise a well-equipped battery of stovetop cookware that I think anyone would consider to be pretty kickass stuff that will last a lifetime. It is, of course, possible to get this set (or one similar) for less money if you are good at looking for things on sale. It is also possible to get even better by upgrading in a few places: go with Staub enameled cast iron in 8 quarts for around 220 bucks; go with a Falk Culinair stainless lined heavy copper sauciere in 1.4 quarts for 100 bucks (75 if you are a first-time customer) and so on.

A large cast iron skillet would compliment any set of cookware.

This does not include knives and that sort of thing, of course.

Personally, my philosophy is to slowly build up a battery of fop-flight cookware, acquiring one or two pieces a year as you start feeling like you need them. A perfectly good starter set for someone who doesn't have much of anything and doesn't have much cooking experience would be an 11" straight gauge curved sauteuse evasee, a 12 quart stock pot (mostly for pasta, but also works for soups), an 11" nonstick fry pan, a 2 qt saucepan and a 10" chef's knife. There aren't too many things you can't make with that collection.

←

Wow, nice article in general, and great post for anyone starting off a cookware collection! I'm actually moving out (currently living with parents) in a couple months, so I have to have my own collection built up before then. Anyone care to take an "updated for 2007" crack at Fat Guy's challenge? I tried looking for some of the pots that you recommended here and elsewhere in the Q&A, but either can't find many of them, or they are priced way higher than listed above. Thanks in advance!

[Wholemeal Crank]

Anyone know of a true pressure canner that is compatible with an induction stovetop?

A discussion in another forum is making the induction seem quite attractive, but I have never seen a genuine pressure canner in anything but aluminum, I presume due to weight/cost issues. I see fagor makes a 10qt pressure cooker that they like to advertise as a "canner", but anything under 20 quarts is can't do a batch of stock at once.

I can imagine replacing my saucepans and stockpots without too much regret if they don't work, but simply cannot do without my canner.

[sygyzy]

Wow, nice article in general, and great post for anyone starting off a cookware collection!  I'm actually moving out (currently living with parents) in a couple months, so I have to have my own collection built up before then.  Anyone care to take an "updated for 2007" crack at Fat Guy's challenge?  I tried looking for some of the pots that you recommended here and elsewhere in the Q&A, but either can't find many of them, or they are priced way higher than listed above.  Thanks in advance!

←

I too would appreciate this. I want new cookware and want some help guiding me in right direction. Thanks in advance.

[JoshRountree]

Sam, may I ask a hypothetical question? Let's say I have $250, $500, and $750 to spend on a cookware gift for a newlywed couple -- novice cooks but eager to learn over time -- moving into a new home and currently in possession of zero utensils. How might you go about constructing some basic sets of cookware in those budget ranges? (In reality, I may be called upon to put together the $500 set on behalf of a group of friends going in together on a gift, in which case it's getting wrapped with a link to your lesson.)

Well... a great place to look is Bridge Kitchenware's What Every Kitchen Needs resource.

For stovetop cookware, they suggest:

- 1.5 qt saucepan

- 3 qt. saucepan

- Large Surface Saute Pan

- Medium Saute Pan

- Omelette Pan

- Steamer Insert

- Medium Covered Casserole

- Large Covered Casserole

- Pasta Pot w/colander

- Non-Stick Fry Pan

- S/S Double Boiler

Personally, I would modify the list to this:

- 1 qt. to 1.5 qt straight gauge saucepan, sauteuse evasee or curved sauteuse evasee (Amazon has a 1 qt. All-Clad MasterChef sauteuse evasee -- they call it a saucier -- for 35 bucks)

- 3.5 to 4.5 disk bottom tall saucepan (Bridge Kitchenware has a 4.5 qt. Paderno Grand Gourmet tall saucepan for 78 bucks)

- 11" disk bottom saute pan (Bridge Kitchenware has an 11" Sitram Profisserie saute pan for 68 bucks)

- 11" straight gauge fry pan (Cookware and More has a 10" All-Clad MasterChef fry pan for 60 bucks or a 12" All-Clad MasterChef fry pan for 70 bucks)

- 11" straight gauge nonstick frypan (Amazon has 11" Calphalon Commercial nonstick fry pans in occasional sales as low as 30 bucks)

- 6 qt to 7 qt enameled cast iron casserole (Pans.com has a 6.75 qt Chasseur casserole for 163 bucks)

- 12 qt to 18 qt disk bottom stock pot with pasta insert (Bridge Kitchenware has a 17.7 Sitram profisserie stock pot for 117 bucks)

That would comprise a well-equipped battery of stovetop cookware that I think anyone would consider to be pretty kickass stuff that will last a lifetime. It is, of course, possible to get this set (or one similar) for less money if you are good at looking for things on sale. It is also possible to get even better by upgrading in a few places: go with Staub enameled cast iron in 8 quarts for around 220 bucks; go with a Falk Culinair stainless lined heavy copper sauciere in 1.4 quarts for 100 bucks (75 if you are a first-time customer) and so on.

A large cast iron skillet would compliment any set of cookware.

This does not include knives and that sort of thing, of course.

Personally, my philosophy is to slowly build up a battery of fop-flight cookware, acquiring one or two pieces a year as you start feeling like you need them. A perfectly good starter set for someone who doesn't have much of anything and doesn't have much cooking experience would be an 11" straight gauge curved sauteuse evasee, a 12 quart stock pot (mostly for pasta, but also works for soups), an 11" nonstick fry pan, a 2 qt saucepan and a 10" chef's knife. There aren't too many things you can't make with that collection.

←

Wow, nice article in general, and great post for anyone starting off a cookware collection! I'm actually moving out (currently living with parents) in a couple months, so I have to have my own collection built up before then. Anyone care to take an "updated for 2007" crack at Fat Guy's challenge? I tried looking for some of the pots that you recommended here and elsewhere in the Q&A, but either can't find many of them, or they are priced way higher than listed above. Thanks in advance!

←

I recently stocked my kitchen and I bought:

-2 qt saucier w/ lid

-4.5 qt sauce pad w/ loop & lid

-4qt 10.5" saute pan

-12" fry pan

All of the above was bought from Cookware N More. I got the fry pan for Christmas, and I recently bought the rest. They are all MC2, and the reason I bought them instead of the ones mentioned by Sam is they were much cheaper. Even better, cookware n more is having a sale this month 20% off 4 or more pieces. You may have to wait a little while as some items are back ordered but I don't mind.

I bought a 2 piece Calphalon non-stick from Williams Sonoma, 8" & 10" for $64.53 around Christmas time. This is a good deal on a non-stick pan.

I just won an Ebay auction for a 5.5 qt Le Creuset Round French oven for $165.

For a stock pot these seem to get good reviews from around here.

In my opinion, the only things I have left to get are a good chef's knife, paring knife, and roasting pan. I already have a rubber cutting board.

You can stock your kitchen reasonably cheap with pieces that will last forever if you have patience.

HTH

Edited February 19, 2008 by JoshRountree (log)

[slkinsey]

I don't have the time to do an exhaustive search, but can probably make some examples. The principles outlined in the class still work, but many things have changed since 2003 that have changed the cookware market. Most important are inflation, the economic downturn in the United States, the Dollar's precipitous fall against the Euro (on February 19, 1993 $1 = €0.94; today $1 = €0.68) and the huge increase in the price of copper.

So... looking at my suggested pieces and making a few examples:

1 to 1.5 quart straight gauge saucepan, sauteuse evasee or curved sauteuse evasee

- I see an All-Clad MasterChef 2 1-quart "Saucier " at cookware and More or at Amazon for 45 bucks. My original recommendation in 2003 was for the same pan at $35, so the price has increased by ten dollars. That's roughly a 5% increase per year since 2003 for a total of 28.6%.

3.5 to 4.5 quart disk bottom tall saucepan

- My original recommendation was for the 4.4 quart Paderno Grand Gourmet tall saucepan at Bridge Kitchenware which they were then selling for for 78 bucks. The same pan is now selling for 96, an increase of 18 dollars. That's roughly a 4.4% increase per year since 2003 for a total of 23.5%.

- On the other hand, this 4 quart stainless saucepan at Big Tray looks like it has a reasonably thick disk bottom, and it only costs 32 bucks.

11" disk bottom saute pan

- I originally recommended an has an 11" Sitram Profisserie saute pan that Bridge Kitchenware was selling for for 68 bucks. Bridge doesn't carry Profisserie any more, but the same pan can be found on Amazon for 90 -- 22 dollars more. That's an increase of around 6% per year since 2003 for a total of 32.5%.

. . . I could go on, but it looks like the general trend is price increases of around 28%. These increases have outpaced inflation (15.59% from January 2003 to January 2008), but many of the products I recommended back in 2003 were imported and so additionally reflect a 27.6% decline of the Dollar against the Euro during the same time period. So, for example, Bridge was selling an 11" Sitram Profisserie saute pan for 68 dollars. Converting back to Euros, that gives us €63.92 in 2003. Now let's apply 15.59% inflation, which gives us €73.88 in 2008. Now, if we bring that pan back over to the States at the 2008 exchange rate, we get a price of $108.32. The pan at $90 from Amazon is actually 18 dollars cheaper than we might expect.

The end result is that imported cookware is probably not a great deal right now, and the increase in materials is driving the price of certain cookware even higher compared to 2003. Good pieces are still to be found at good prices. But other sources should be explored. Amazon often has good deals. Big Tray and other restaurant supply businesses are also good sources.

Edited February 19, 2008 by slkinsey (log)

[sygyzy]

I don't have the time to do an exhaustive search, but can probably make some examples.  The principles outlined in the class still work, but many things have changed since 2003 that have changed the cookware market. 

Hi,

Thanks for your reponses and I hope that you understand in no way was I criticizing or questioning your work. I have all 18 pages printed out and I am working hard to understand these concepts. It just helps to have someone put a list together, as you did, of what a kitchen would probably like to have.

Anyway, you are saying that your recommendations still stand except now things are more expensive? Has anything else changed materials wise? For example, "At one time ___ was cost prohibitive but with new manufacturing techniques, everyone should upgrade to _______"?

Edit to add: Are 11" pans being made anymore? Lately, all I see is 10" and 12". Is 10" the new 11 or is 12" the new 11?

Edited February 19, 2008 by sygyzy (log)

[slkinsey]

No worries, sygyzy.

My recommendations were only examples of the kinds of things that could be found. I recommended certain brands and retailers because they were the ones with which I had personal experience. Most of my cookware -- which includes a smattering of Falk Culinair, Mauviel, Bourgat, De Buyer, Paderno, Sitram, All-Clad, Calphalon, Le Creuset, Staub, vintage Griswold, etc. -- was purchased back when prices were a lot lower. And a lot of it was picked up on occasional deep discount sales (e.g., "scratch and dent," closeout, loss leader, etc.) or, in the case of the Griswold, inherited. But it was always possible to get other brands that were just as good, and perhaps at a lower price too. There are great disk bottom stock pots for sale at places like Target at ridiculously low prices. I would always advise cookware hunters to have patience, to acquire their cookware piece-by-piece, to always be alert for a sale, and to have a willingness to compromise to take advantage of a sale (for example: I prefer MasterChef over the other All-Clad lines, but still didn't hesitate to pick up some 1 quart Stainless saucepans when they came up on a huge Amazon sale).

Since the time when I purchased most of my stuff, the cookware landscape has changed a lot. There have even been some very interesting brands that have come and gone in the few years since 2003 (e.g., ScanPan Steel). So I'm less able to say to people: "Go out and buy brand XYZ. It has the best specifications for the lowest price." That's legwork I'm not prepared to do right now. On the other hand, as I said: the principles are all right there. For disk-bottom pans, for example, commercial stuff like this saucepan at Big Tray look pretty inviting. I couldn't say just what the composition of the base is, but it looks pretty thick and it looks like it covers the whole base. An email correspondence with either Big Tray or the manufacturer should enable someone looking for a disk bottom saucepan to get that information. If it is a heavy gauge stainless steel body with an encapsulated aluminum base that goes all the way to the edge and is 3 mm or more thick, I'd say it's a pretty good pan -- especially at 33 bucks for 4 quarts and a lid.

It took me around 5 minutes of poking around on the internet to find that out and, applying the ideas from the class, decide that it looked good enough and was priced cheaply enough to warrant further investigation. If I was on the market for a disk bottom saucepan or stock pot, I would absolutely buy one of these if the specs checked out.

In general, I wouldn't say that anything has become less expensive, and the technology is more or less the same. Indeed, the price of copper has made heavy copper cookware and cookware employing any copper as a thermal material rise in price quite a bit more relative to cookware overall. With the American economy and the weak Dollar, I would expect that it might be better to buy domestic cookware -- but I have no actual data to back that up.

As for the eleven-inch pan... that is a size that is still quite common in imported professional cookware. This is because it's not really 11 inches -- it's 28 centimeters, which is a standard size. As you point out, American-made cookware (especially American cookware produced primarily for home cooks), is likely to be either 10 inches or 12 inches.

Edited February 19, 2008 by slkinsey (log)

[sygyzy]

Hi SLK,

If I cannot find the 11" version, which do you think would get more use? 10" or 12"?

[slkinsey]

That's something I can't answer for you. It depends on how much food you cook, the power of your stove, etc.

[Mr Fusion]

FIRST POST

Hello all, this site is amazing! I wish I found it earlier.

I've been cooking for years and am trying to get better through learning new techniques, I have recently been frustrated when trying to make some things because I could never cook the food to a result that I was happy with or to a level I think I should be able to achieve.

I now discover it's because I am using cheap SS pans. Try AU $80 ($75 US) for a set!

I have been researching getting some nice cookware, and being in Australia, have been having difficulty finding some of the ranges I would like.

I have found a brand that I really like the look and feel of called Chef Inox 'Studio' and I can get about 5 chosen pieces fairly cheaply compared to what I believe to be similar stuff from All Clad and the like (roughly $500 USD).

Ignoring the '5 ply' hype of including a bonding agent (unless this does affect heat?) the pots have a thicknesses of:

0.4mm Stainless

2.5mm aluminium

0.6mm Stainless

It seems that the aluminium layer is thicker than an equivalent piece form what slkinsey lists All Clad as having.

Their other range, Professional, uses aluminium disk pots that have a 6mm disk. So I may pick up a few pieces in this line also. But I'm not as big a fan of the handles, so it'd mainly be for the larger stock pots maybe.

The Sautese is only 18cm (7'') but I think it'd do as I only cook for two.

So my question is does anybody have experience with this range?

or failing that:

Am I right in guessing that this core thickness will provide pretty even heat?

And finally:

Does the 'bonding agent' which they count as a layer affect anything?

My stove is electric, with heavy disk elements, so fast heat response isn't really the main concern, I just want nice, even heat... but I do want to keep my options open in the future.

Thank you for your time.

-Ben.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Mr Fusion (log)

[slkinsey]

Glad you liked the class.

You seem to have absorbed the principles I was trying to convey well, and were able to apply those principles to the cookware you're looking at. All of which is to say that you've answered most of the questions yourself.

I don't have any personal experience with this line of cookware, but you're correct that the specifications look good if the price is right.

A few things...

The Sautese is only 18cm  (7'') but I think it'd do as I only cook for two.

That really depends on what you're using the pan for. For sauteing, I'd say that 18cm is way too small. I cook mostly for two people, and still find that 28 cm is the most common size I use. If you're thinking of that pan more as a reduction pan and saucepan, then it would probably be sufficient.

Am I right in guessing that this core thickness will provide pretty even heat?

Should be as good as All-Clad Stainless, certainly.

Does the 'bonding agent' which they count as a layer affect anything?

No. That's marketing bullcrap designed to make you think you're getting "more layers" for people who think more = better.

My stove is electric, with heavy disk elements, so fast heat response isn't really the main concern, I just want nice, even heat... but I do want to keep my options open in the future.

With electric stoves, the flatness of the base of the cookware is really more important than any other factor with respect to evenness of heat. All-Clad Stainless, which seems like a similar kind of pan, keeps its shape very well (I believe that full cladding conveys considerable structural strength and warp-resistance to aluminum). So these pans should perform well in that respect and, as you say, it keeps your options open for the future.

[Kleatius]

Thanks again slkinsey!

I've been building up a small collection based on some recommendations from this article. So far I've picked up the Falk 1.4 qt. Sauciére (it looked so nice I couldn't resist!), a 12" Caphalon non-stick fry pan, and a Staub 5.8 ltr. oval oven.

Next up is a decent stock pot and a 11" saute or saucier (which seems to be fairly expensive here in Canada). I notice that some ppl suggested Paderno and was wondering if this deal seems good for a stock pot:

http://www.paderno.com/products/product.cfm?ID=188

I saw another deal on that site that seemed pretty ridiculous:

http://www.paderno.com/products/product.cfm?ID=918

Is there something sucky about that particular line or product? Seems really cheap...

A last question for any experts out there: What sort of pot is best suited for roasting something like a chicken? There are various kind of pots that I've seen advertised for this, and I've only ever used an old granite ware pot to do that myself. Some examples:

http://www.paderno.com/products/product.cfm?ID=164

http://www.chefsresource.com/staub-xlarge-oval.html

[tim]

Kleatius,

You are better off roasting a chicken in a low sided pan with a rack.

I use an 11" carbon steel paella pan or a 10" skillet. I use a heavy curved rack to hold the chickens, beginning breast down. These pans are also perfect for making a pan sauce when the chicken is finished.

Carbon Steel Paella

Tim

Edited April 10, 2008 by tim (log)

[Kleatius]

Hmmmm... I was just talking to a friend about Paderno cookware. His in-laws used the brand for years and bought them a set around 4 months ago. Apparently the quality of the new pots are much less than the older ones his in-laws have and they are really disappointed. His father-in-law researched it a bit and found out that around a year ago they started making the cookware in China instead of P.E.I. Anyone heard anything about this to confirm/disprove?

[gkg680]

Hmmmm... I was just talking to a friend about Paderno cookware.  His in-laws used the brand for years and bought them a set around 4 months ago.  Apparently the quality of the new pots are much less than the older ones his in-laws have and they are really disappointed.  His father-in-law researched it a bit and found out that around a year ago they started making the cookware in China instead of P.E.I.  Anyone heard anything about this to confirm/disprove?

←

Elsewhere on the forum, there is commentary about different grades of Paderno cookware. One line, I believe it's the Grand Gourmet line, is the real McCoy, although some say that there are cheap and poorly constructed Paderno lines also.

I live in Chicago, but last August, I was in New York and bought a Paderno Grand Gourmet skillet at Bridge Kitchenware in midtown Manhattan. I'm delighted with it, stainless steel, and it's designed in such a way as to be suitable as a frypan and also as a saute pan. Very sturdy, versatile, top quality.

The professional chefs on this forum will know better than me, but I would suggest caution in buying Paderno by mail-order. It's helpful to see the product, and to determine exactly which line you're getting.

[slkinsey]

. . .Next up is a decent stock pot and a 11" saute or saucier (which seems to be fairly expensive here in Canada).  I notice that some ppl suggested Paderno and was wondering if this deal seems good for a stock pot:

http://www.paderno.com/products/product.cfm?ID=188

I saw another deal on that site that seemed pretty ridiculous:

http://www.paderno.com/products/product.cfm?ID=918

Is there something sucky about that particular line or product?  Seems really cheap...

The question about Padero is something I answered back in 2003:

. . . I then saw a Paderno fry pan and noticed it had a base that was just as thick as the one on the sitram profisserrie pan.  However, the Paderno pan didn't say anything like "Paderno Grand Gourmet"; it had nothing on it except a tag that said "Paderno".

I'm wondering , is this just a plain paderno pan that uses a simple 2mm aluminum base, or is this a very good Paderno pan - since its base looks almost identical to the one on the sitram profisserrie?  Any sure way of knowing?  Perhaps the paderno's base looks as good as sitram's, but really isn't.. I'm not sure.  The Paderno was definitely cheaper, so I wanted to buy it, but wasn't sure if I'd regret it.

Was this store by any chance Bridge Kitchenware in NYC? If you were in the US and it wasn't Bridge, then you weren't seeing Paderno Grand Gourmet. Bridge Kitchenware the exclusive US distributor of Paderno, and the only line they carry is Grand Gourmet. Paderno Grand Gourmet has the same thickness of aluminum as Sitram Profisserie.

That said... and to complicate matters somewhat, there are two manufacturers making "Paderno" cookware. There is a Canadian company that makes cookware called "Paderno" in Canada. Here is an excerpt from an email discussion I had with their marketing and development director a few years ago:

slkinsey: I am a little confused about the naming of your products.  I've spent a lot of time in Italy and am quite familiar with the Paderno cookware manufactured there.  I was a bit surprised to see that you also manufacture a line called "Paderno," although I note that you only use the name "Paderno" in Canada.  Could you explain this to me?  Does your company have any relationship with the Italian company?

marketing guy: The company in Italy actually started our company in 1979. After being close to bankruptcy, they sold it to the current President. We have rights to the name Paderno in Canada, but no other country. We kept the name primarly since there was already some brand recognition established.

[NB. The Italian company has since rebounded and is doing quite well.]

The Canadian company, Padinox, Inc., makes several lines of cookware. Their lower level line, called "Paderno" in Canada and "Chaudier 1000" elsewhere, has 0.8 mm thick stainless steel and a 3/16" (~4.5 mm) aluminum base. Their high level line, called "Chaudier" in Canada and "Chaudier 5000" elsewhere, has 2 mm thick stainless steel and a 1/4" (~6.25 mm) aluminum base. Chaudier 5000 is awesome stuff. Used on Air Force One.

If you have seen cookware named "Paderno" with an aluminum base of less than 7 mm thickness, you were either looking at Canadian-branded cookware or one of the lower lines from the Italian manufacturer (Paderno Serie 1000, Gourmet Serie 1100, Gourmet Serie 2000).

Paderno.com is the web side of the Canadian manufacturer, Padinox Incorporated. Note that visitors to the web side have to indicate whether they are Canadian or American. If you compare between the two "sides" of the site, you will notice how the product names are different -- with the "Paderno" name only being used in Canada.

Paderno.it is the web site of the Italian manufacturer, Sambonet Paderno Industrie Spa.

A last question for any experts out there:  What sort of pot is best suited for roasting something like a chicken?

You don't want a "pot" for roasting a chicken. What you want is a roasting pan. This is not stovetop cookware, and so isn't really covered in the eGCI class. Fundamentally, you can roast on just about anything you want -- from a pre-heated cast iron skillet to an aluminum sheet pan. You just want something that exposes the roasting meat to maximum radiant and convection heat. This means shallow sides.

There is an extensive thread on roasting pans here that you may find has some useful information.

[Kleatius]

Thanks for the replies.

I looked into it a bit, and as mentioned before there are two separate Paderno brands. The Canadian one that I was looking at is much lower priced and lower quality as well.

I was just talking to a Canadian Paderno rep. about the Chaudier line. Apparently it has been replaced by a line called "Chefs Choice". Sounds like the company is aiming at a lower budget market.

Here is a list of Chefs Choice cookware available from their site (search for Chefs Choice):

http://www.paderno.com/products/search.cfm?search=true

That 3.2 Qt. sauce pan might be nice.

Edited April 10, 2008 by Kleatius (log)

[PBHokie]

So I'm looking to upgrade my existing cookware and purchase a few new pieces. I think I have a pretty good idea of what pieces I use most (or would use most) and I've spent a few weeks browsing through this post trying to decide what type of cookware to buy, copper of aluminum. I have a pretty good understanding of how the two perform on paper but I thought I would ask those of you who have experience with both since I have very little with good aluminum and none with true copper pieces. I plan to purchase the following:

11" Saute Pan

11" Curved Sauteuse

11" Fry pan

2-3 quart Sauce pan

The curved sauteuse is the only totally new piece but from what I've read and seen it stores I think it would be very useful. The rest I have are All-Clad or Calphalon. My question is, generally speaking, are any of these pans just as good, or better, in aluminum as opposed to copper? Obviously, each pan has various uses so I suppose the quick response might be "it depends" but for now I don't plan to keep more than one of the same pan so just assume you have to pick only one. To me, it seems a fry pan and perhaps the saute might be just as good in heavy, disk bottom aluminum as they would in copper...but I don't know. Is copper just hands-down the best in all applications? I plan on purchasing either Falk copper or Paderno Grand Gourmet aluminum. Since most cookware seems to last quite a while, I'd rather just get the best product right from the get-go and be done with it. ANY advice you could lend would be very appreciated!! By the way, I just want to add...this website is AMAZING!!! Thank you all for posting these classes and all the other topics, for new cooks it is an invaluable resource.

[slkinsey]

A saute pan can be excellent with a heavy stainless body and extra thick disk bottom. That said, I am personally not super-fond of Paderno's saute pan design. The sides are too tall for mty liking. Sitram Catering has a better saute pan design, IMO. You may also want to poke around some restaurant equipment sites to see if you can get a good deal on a heavy disk-bottom saute pan with an encapsulated "all the way to the sides" base.

For a fry pan, I'd say you want straight gauge and not disk bottom. You also want something with short flared sides. A lot of frypans I find have sides that are too tall and too steep, making them more like curved saute pans.

If you want a curved sauteuse, then straight gauge is the way to go. Either stainless lined copper or the thickest aluminum you can find. It's up to you and your budget. If you do go ahead and get one of these, you might consider buying the saute pan in extra heavy carbon steel, since you could use the saute pan for dry-only applications (i.e., real sauteing) and the curved sauteuse for dry/wet applications.

As for the saucepan, it really depends on the intended use for the pan. I find that very few people actually use their saucepans in a way that demands a fancy design.

[Kleatius]

A saute pan can be excellent with a heavy stainless body and extra thick disk bottom.  That said, I am personally not super-fond of Paderno's saute pan design.  The sides are too tall for mty liking.  Sitram Catering has a better saute pan design, IMO.  You may also want to poke around some restaurant equipment sites to see if you can get a good deal on a heavy disk-bottom saute pan with an encapsulated "all the way to the sides" base.

Has anyone had a chance to use the Sitram saute, or know the thickness of the aluminum in the bottom? I've been tempted to just go with the Falk 11" saute, but I feel like my fiancee might find the 8lb weight too heavy. I use this pot a lot so I wanna get something that I wont have to upgrade later on.

[Kleatius]

Reading up on the Sitram, looks like the Catering line has a base of 2.5mm coppers sandwiched in SS. The Sitram Profiserie line has a 7mm aluminum base also sandwiched in SS. hmmm... wonder why the Catering line is so much more expensive. According to the article shouldn't the Much thicker aluminum have better thermal properties?

[slkinsey]

Copper is much more expensive than aluminum.

Whether a 7 mm aluminum base is better than a 2.5 mm copper base for a sauté pan is a matter of opinion and preference, and depends on what you like to do with the pan. As I've said on any number of occasions, most American home cooks don't actually sauté.

[Kleatius]

Hmmm.. Looks like the 11" Falk Saucier only has the one handle. Seems like it might be a pretty heavy lift full of stir fry or risotto.

[slkinsey]

That is correct, it only has one handle. I haven't found it difficult to lift, but some people do. I have strong forearms. I find that the handle design also aids in lifting the pot -- you grip the handle close to the body of the pan and anchor the length of the handle along your arm.