Mesa Grill

[Nathan]

Mesa Grill got reviewed by Brian Miller in 1991 and Grimes in 2000, garnering 2 stars each time.  Reichl gave 2 stars to the short-lived spinoff, Mesa City, in 1997. 

I've expressed the opinion a couple times that more recent restaurants are held to higher standards than older restaurants by the NY Times critics, as evidenced by the fact that the relative frequency of ratings given out hasn't changed much over the years, even though arguably the numbers of ambitious restaurants, and hence the average quality, has gone up.

The other thing is that the Times used to have a statute of limitations on ratings, which was somewhat variable, but was 5 years-ish.  From that standpoint, Mesa Grill's rating might be considered to old to be of use.

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of course...by definition, restaurant quality has gone up.

(for anyone who will make the at least 3,000 year old argument that things in the past were always better....there are far more chefs with serious training today and far more quality ingredients available. those are empirical facts that lend themselves to the conclusion that restaurant quality is better on the whole -- of course...nothing is as ever as blissful as one's first bite of foie gras but that doesn't change that was almost certainly not the best prepared foie that one has had)

[tan319]

All too true....

[Nathan]

so, Bruni's reviewing it tomorrow.

it's been a long time. I have a hard time believing that it will hold on to two...what do we think, one or zero?

[BryanZ]

Hard times for Bobby Flay, with Bolo's forced closing too and all.

ETA: Then again he did just get a Michelin start in Vegas...

Edited January 22, 2008 by BryanZ (log)

[weinoo]

Hard times for Bobby Flay, with Bolo's forced closing too and all.

ETA: Then again he did just get a Michelin start in Vegas...

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I guess that depends on what your definition of "hard times" is. I'm sure he's fiscally better off than ever before, and spending a heck of a lot less time in the kitchen, if you know what I mean.

Bar Americain, Mesa LV, Mesa NYC, Mesa Bahamas, Bobby Flay Steak in Atlantic City, a dozen or so cookbooks, 3 or 4 TV shows, appearances at lots of the big "foodie" events, a line of food products - nah, not such hard times, imo.

[BryanZ]

And the soon to open burger chain!

I see your point, and I guess most chefs would take a NYT demotion seriously to the extent that it might hurt their business. Also, Mesa Grill NYC is supposedly Bobby's flagship restaurant. Then again, Bobby, as a brand, is more of the flagship than any of this restaurants, if that makes sense.

[oakapple]

I'm sure Flay would rather keep his two stars, but I don't think the Bruni review will make that much difference—any more than it did at Harry Cipriani or Max Brenner.

I think Eater (predicting zero stars) has the better end of the argument, but one star wouldn't shock me. Either way, with 20,000 other places to visit, I have to wonder: Why?

[Sneakeater]

As a platform for discussing the phenomenon of overstretched celebrity chefs.

(Also, since the restaurant is still usually packed, it's hard to say it's completely irrelevant in real-world terms.)

[Sethro]

I dunno, most of the sous chefs are pretty young and energized. I haven't eaten there recently but I get the feeling that pride goes into the cooking. I find zero stars to be pretty unlikely, political reasons aside.

[weinoo]

As a platform for discussing the phenomenon of overstretched celebrity chefs.

(Also, since the restaurant is still usually packed, it's hard to say it's completely irrelevant in real-world terms.)

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Good point. Whether or not we on these boards think the food is ground-breaking, pretty damn good or even just okay, Bobby is a star...(and his food was NYC ground breaking at one point in time).

His restaurants remain packed, earning millions of dollars... to the Times he's just as relevant as Gordon Ramsey, Robuchon, JG, Mario, Tom Collichio, Keller or any other celeb chef who isn't in the kitchen (and I know some of them are in the kitchen, of one of their restaurants, some of the time).

[Nathan]

a year or so ago, a restaurant reviewer for a Las Vegas newspaper commented on a diner's journal comments thread that he wasn't impressed with NY restaurants and cited places like Mesa Grill that he had eaten at. of course, several of us immediately replied that he had picked tourist traps...but it doesn't change the fact that Mesa Grill is a nationally known NY restaurant (yeah, locals don't eat there much...but the tourists don't know that).

and it was an important restaurant at one time.

[weinoo]

I agree with what Sethro says. Look at Todd's post below from a mere six months ago, it sounds like he had a pretty good meal there. I don't think a restaurant has to be ground breaking to earn 2 stars, so maybe he'll keep them...

Pretty good, but a little bit of a mixed bag. Three apps: chopped salad (did not taste like much), fried green tomato topped with crab (excellent and probably the lighest fried green tomato I have ever had and a duck filled soft tortia (good). Three mains: fried softshelled crabs (excellent, well made and very good flavor in the crabs), grouper (fine, but not very interesting) and twelve spice chicken (fine, but not that interesting, served with a very good tamale). Two excellent additional sides, roast corn with lime and caulfflower baked with a sharp blue cheese. Two excellent desserts, coconut cake and white peach shortcake (excellent and light biscut). Nothing was bad, at worst, not interesting. They have a light touch, from the soft shell cracb to the tamale to the desserts, everything was lighter than I would have expected.

[Nathan]

the review has been filed.

demoted to one star.

[weinoo]

I don't think a restaurant has to be ground breaking to earn 2 stars, so maybe he'll keep them...

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Then again, maybe he won't .

[oakapple]

I don't think a restaurant has to be ground breaking to earn 2 stars, so maybe he'll keep them...

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A two-star rating doesn't require any innovation whatsoever. But you do have to be fairly consistent in what you produce, which was Mesa Grill's undoing. I am still struggling to figure out the point of this review, but Bruni's star is consistent with my own experience there.

Edited January 23, 2008 by weinoo (log)

[weinoo]

A two-star rating doesn't require any innovation whatsoever. But you do have to be fairly consistent in what you produce, which was Mesa Grill's undoing. I am still struggling to figure out the point of this review, but Bruni's star is consistent with my own experience there.

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I think, Marc, the reason for the re-review is that it had been 7 - 8 years since the last review, Flay's a big star with a bunch of openings (and a closing or two) to his credit, and the place is still jammed...meaning, in some way, shape or form, that he, and his restaurants, be they extant or new, are still relevant to some.

[Sneakeater]

My friends from the suburbs, who watch a lot of Food TV, get excited at the prospect of eating at Mesa Grill.

Judging by how packed the place still is, there must be a lot of people like that.

Many of them read the Times.

I think this review definitely had a point.

(To counter the inevitable "Olive Garden is packed, too" rebuttal, the difference is that the people who pack Mesa Grill do so not because it's a familiar chain, but because they've seen Bobby Flay on Food TV and thus believe that Mesa Grill must be one of the top restaurants in New York. I think that's eminently worth rebutting by the Times critic.)

(Or, to put it another way, this place is different from most other NYC "tourist" restaurants because people go there for the food. Again, if the Times critic thinks it's deteriorated to the point where it's no longer very good but only good, that's worth correcting.)

Edited January 23, 2008 by Sneakeater (log)

[oakapple]

I think, Marc, the reason for the re-review is that it had been 7 - 8 years since the last review, Flay's a big star with a bunch of openings (and a closing or two) to his credit, and the place is still jammed...meaning, in some way, shape or form, that he, and his restaurants, be they extant or new, are still relevant to some.

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Yes, but by those criteria quite a few places could reasonably have been chosen where, perhaps, there was actually something interesting to say. There are many still-busy 1-2 star restaurants that haven't been reviewed in ~8 years. It strikes me as laziness.

[Nathan]

out of curiosity, which other NY places that haven't been reviewed in 8 years feature someone as well known as Bobby Flay?

to second Sneakeater...as I noted above, even professional restaurant reviewers from other cities assume that Mesa Grill is one of the top restaurants in NY....the fact that NY'ers basically don't go there simply isn't something they're aware of.

[rmcrob]

Hard times for Bobby Flay, with Bolo's forced closing too and all.

ETA: Then again he did just get a Michelin start in Vegas...

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I guess that depends on what your definition of "hard times" is. I'm sure he's fiscally better off than ever before, and spending a heck of a lot less time in the kitchen, if you know what I mean.

Bar Americain, Mesa LV, Mesa NYC, Mesa Bahamas, Bobby Flay Steak in Atlantic City, a dozen or so cookbooks, 3 or 4 TV shows, appearances at lots of the big "foodie" events, a line of food products - nah, not such hard times, imo.

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And Stephanie March.

[oakapple]

out of curiosity, which other NY places that haven't been reviewed in 8 years feature someone as well known as Bobby Flay?

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Who knows, and who cares? I think the reason for the review is given in this Eater post. Bruni was planning to be out-of-town, and he needed a place he could review lazily, without a lot of thought—something that could be phoned in.

[Nathan]

out of curiosity, which other NY places that haven't been reviewed in 8 years feature someone as well known as Bobby Flay?

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Who knows, and who cares?

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we do know. the answer is that there aren't any others.

Emeril Lagasse doesn't have a restaurant in NY. Tyler Florence was supposed to open one but it never materialized. Rachel Ray doesn't have a restaurant. all of the Batali restaurants have been reviewed (although Lupa deserves a full review).

Bourdain basically has nothing to do with Les Halles.

no one else has anything like that level of fame. not even close.

[Daniel]

I thought Tyler owns Cafeteria.

[oakapple]

we do know.  the answer is that there aren't any others.

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Really????. All I'm saying is that the review felt lazy, with a lot of padding thrown in that didn't require actually writing about the food, and without telling us anything about Flay that wasn't already rather well known.

[Nathan]

I thought Tyler owns Cafeteria.

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he worked there years ago.