Splenda(id) Chocolate

[foodie52]

What the hell are you doing eating one of those anyway, claire 797? You must weigh all of 100 lbs....come and see me: I'll give ya some Valrhona....

We sell lots and lots of this low carb stuff . The store I work in has an entire section dedicated to the low carb thingy. And my observation is that people want it...they just WANT it , and don't care how it tastes! They put it in their grocery carts and not a one has yet to ask me if this stuff tastes good!

And while I'm ranting, what's up with this coconut oil craze??? Some magazine says it's supposed to help women's thyroids, so I've had about a million requests for this out-of-stock item in the past 6 weeks. Mostly from very overweight women. Is it the new miracle drug??? Huh????

[cdh]

Last year at the Fancy Food show I tasted a fake-sugar-byproduct-sweetened dark chocolate bar made by somebody called Yamate chocolatiers, and it was remarkably good. So, not all mockolate is nasty... and I had no experience of the "laxitive effect" either. Zero carb, if I recall correctly.

[foodie52]

Be still my heart....

[jhlurie]

Yo,

So I fed a few of these to some people at the NY eGullet Potluck (no... it wasn't my "official" contribution). Elyse took to the project with enthusiasm, but quickly started to think of things grosser than "ass" to describe them. Suzanne F patiently munched her way through a few samples, but showed her true feelings by breaking out a bar of REAL chocolate for us to cleanse ourselves with. Fat Guy's face just kind of... turned colors.

The consensus, I think, was that I was being a bit too kind to the "Z-Carb", but was quite on target with the "At Last".

By the way... Ellen Shapiro asked where the term "snark" came from. At the time I didn't recall, but I've since remembered its Lewis Carroll. As to how, on the Internet, its come to refer to the dispensation of sarcasm, I'm still not sure. At one point it was a main-framey type term which referred to a certain type of systems failure. Somewhere, at some point in time, it made a leap and took on a new meaning.

[Rachel Perlow]

To be fair, the actual "mock-late" (TM - Schielke) portion doesn't seem to have ingredients that differ significantly from Z-Carb.

Mockolate was actually a subject on the NBC show, Friends, a few years ago. Monica was up for a job to develop recipes using mocklate (a chocolate substitute). She gamely tried a piece offered by her interviewer, but struggled to keep a straight face while chewing. Here's part of the episode summary:

"The One With the List" .... “List” has some good moments, partially thanks to a solid cameo from Michael McKean. As Monica seeks a new job, she gets the chance to come up with recipes that use “Mockolate”, a chocolate substitute. McKean’s very amusing as the Mockolate shill.

Later on Monica has the other girls sample the Mockolate, from this webpage:

Rachel: Oh my god.

Monica: Oh my god good?

Rachel: Oh my god, I can't believe you let me put this in my mouth.

[Rachel runs to the sink to spit it out]

Phoebe: Oh, oh sweet Lord! This is what evil must taste like!

[elyse]

Elyse took to the project with enthusiasm, but quickly started to think of things grosser than "ass" to describe them

I did? What did I say? I only recall slimy at the end. I really didn't think they were THAT bad. But my palate had about a thousand things on it at that point anyway. Which is why I would have taken the leftovers home to try again today.

[jhlurie]

Maybe Suzanne didn't chuck them? I don't know for sure.

Rachel. "Friends"? Feh. Maybe we need to come up with a better name for this stuff. I want nothing to do with "Friends". They are not MY Friends.

Elyse: Maybe I was projecting my own thoughts at you. I know you said "ass" a few times, and I perhaps thought a few more things were going through your mind (this was based mostly on your expression) at one point, but you may have also been looking at Suzanne's Naked Chefs calendar at the time. I don't properly recall.

Edited July 13, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[Fat Guy]

The problem as I understand it is that sugar is important not only to flavor but also to the physical structure of chocolate candies. Whatever it is that those little crystals do at the molecular-latticework level is very important. Otherwise it would be a simple matter to make an excellent sucralose-sweetened chccolate bar: you'd just take Valrhona Cacao Pate Extra 100% and mix in Splenda until you got to a desirable level of sweetness. The problem is, I think, if you do that and pour it into a mold, what you get won't have an acceptable chocolate-bar texture. The taste of the sucralose is not the problem -- sucralose is an excellent sweetener. But all the crap they put into the bars to give them acceptable texture and shelf-stability just tastes bad.

[jhlurie]

Today's Test,

First of all, I'm losing enthusiam for this project. Really, the timing is bad because since I am on a diet (except for last night) I can't properly obliterate the experience by following it up with something which makes me forget the worst of it. Last night, at the eGullet potluck, it was easy. Today? Not so much.

But I will muddle through. Food testers do this every single day--I can manage four days. But they can always go home after work and drown their sorrows in Pecan Pie or Larb or something.

I'm complaining because the first thing I did this afternoon was to pull the remainder of the "At Last" bar out of the freezer and see if it was any better frozen. And you know... it isn't. The truffle-like center is still nightmarish--now its just frozen AND nightmarish. The outside is still still waxy, as well as nearly odorless. The Mets are still a crappy team and damnit, I want a hamburger. No... two of them. Big, juicy, with cheese even... No skimping on the bun either.

Today's main test is the Z-Carb "Gourmet Milk Chocolate Bar with Almonds". I didn't try one last night, but Suzanne F. did, and she swore she tasted Peanuts instead of Almonds. The allergens section of the label admitted that it might have traces in it, but its not actually an ingredient. Hopefully Suzanne isn't allergic. Or I will feel really bad for leaving her to wash all of those dishes after the Potluck.

{Rip, rip. Snap. Munch, munch.}

It's not bad. Nobody last night had more than a small portion of the Z-Carb, but personally I still think its much better than the At Last (as someone pointed out "Carbolite" is indeed the manufacturer of the "At Last", although they also apparently make other faux-chocolate bars with the exact same mix without that branding. As Suzanne commented, ALL of these bars are waxy compared to real chocolate--not just the "At Last". But to me, the Z-Carb seemed to have a more natural odor and the waxiness went away quicker when it melted in your mouth. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Last night we all agreed that the main problem with ALL of these bars was that the texture of sugar was still missing, and I see as I'm typing this that Fat Guy has elaborated... so I'll refer you back to his most recent post.

Anyway... the Almond variety of Z-Carb is a bit different than the kind filled with Peanut Butter, but overall I don't think its any better or worse. I thought the Peanut Butter was a bit creamier, but the Almond variety is obviously a bit more... chocolatey since its solid throughout.

One more day, one more bar. The "At Last" Chocolate Almond. I may save the remainder of the Z-Carb Almond to eat head-to-head. But yesterday added at least another 3 days to my diet, so that hamburger is not in my immediate future.

[elyse]

The problem as I understand it is that sugar is important not only to flavor but also to the physical structure of chocolate candies. Whatever it is that those little crystals do at the molecular-latticework level is very important. Otherwise it would be a simple matter to make an excellent sucralose-sweetened chccolate bar: you'd just take Valrhona Cacao Pate Extra 100% and mix in Splenda until you got to a desirable level of sweetness. The problem is, I think, if you do that and pour it into a mold, what you get won't have an acceptable chocolate-bar texture. The taste of the sucralose is not the problem -- sucralose is an excellent sweetener. But all the crap they put into the bars to give them acceptable texture and shelf-stability just tastes bad.

Jon, I think this was my problem last night. I was definitely making faces, but it was mostly because of the feel. Very slimy and greasy, but feeling cold too (they were not actually cold). It was like eating the grease from railroad ties or pylons. It was like a silicone based chocolate. Not an awful taste to me.

[coastcat]

Would you use it if you didn't have to? That's the ultimate test, isn't it?

I would probably use the sugar-free DaVinci even if I weren't eating low-carb. I've been drinking diet beverages for years. I hate beverages sweetened with corn syrup - they taste sticky and nasty to me. The sugar-free DaVinci doesn't have that thick, sticky taste. They make great snowcones!

Yeah, if I could, I'd keep making desserts the proper way, with sugar and high-quality flour and the best chocolate I could afford. However, to quote Calvin Trillin, I'm now looking after a well-deserved case of fatness.

But hey, I can live with eating strawberries slathered in whipped cream instead of chocolate fudge cake for dessert. It's not that much of a sacrifice.

Okay, here's a low-carb chocolate bar to try - on the LC support boards I read, there is constant praise for Pure De-Lite bars as the best candy-like treat available. They are available in Caramel, Caramel Crisp, Caramel Nougat, Caramel Peanut Butter Bar with Peanuts, Caramel Pecan, Chocolate Mint, Dark Chocolate, Milk Chocolate, Milk Chocolate Orange, Milk Chocolate with Almonds, Milk Chocolate with Coconut, Milk Chocolate with Peanuts, and White Chocolate.

I've tried the Carb Solutions Taste Sensation bar in Chocolate Peanut Butter and Chocolate Toffee Hazelnut. The latter was edible but not exactly delicious, the former was truly hideous. It took hours before the aftertaste faded.

Edited July 14, 2003 by coastcat (log)

[EJRothman]

Two points:

First one is that "Strive" Low-carb bars are quite tasty.

Second point is that this discussion is neglecting a smaller yet important (to me, at least) segment of the low-carb community, and their products. Weightlifters are most concerned with high levels of protein in combination with reduced amounts of carbs. There are tons of bars (and shakes) catering to this market segment.

From personal experience, many of the bars are pretty bad. But then, just when you think all hope is lost (like when they discontinue your favorite protein bar ) you come across another one so perfect in every way that you think realize all is right in the world.

For me, this product is known as NITRO-Tech Peanut Butter Chocolate Chip bars. They are made by a company called Muscle-tech. These bars taste like wad of Jif peanut butter, mixed in with semi-sweet chip chinks, and covered with chocolate. Be warned, that they are much larger than your average chocolate bars, and are about 300 calories with a signifcant amount of fat, but they are very tasty, and very high in protein.

As for protein shakes, these seem to be more tasty on the whole. I have limited experience various brands sinceI found that Met-Rx Chocolate shakes tates really good, and I drink those.

-Eric

[jhlurie]

Friends, Countrymen (and also all of you Foreigners!), lend me your ears,

I have a confession to make. I had that hamburger today. I want to say that I did it because I was at a business meeting and didn't want to look like a big pussy by eating nothing but a small side salad. But it makes almost as little sense to lie to you as it would to lie to myself. You are my sounding board. I wanted the damn burger. I just wanted it. I had bacon, cheese, onions... the works. Even fries. I loved it and it loved me. We fit together beautifully... IN... MY... PANTS! (everything is funnier if you add "IN MY PANTS" to the end, right?)

In contrast, I don't want the Carborite "At Last" Chocolate Almond Bar.

The last "At Last" bar--the Chocolate Truffle--really terrified me. Apparently, like Phoebe on "Friends" (good lord... am I referencing "Friends"?), I have tasted evil... and while its package may have "Best By 07 04" stamped on the back, that's not very reassuring. I try to imagine how bad it will taste in July of 2005, but my imagination fails me.

Anyway, I approach the Almond version of this bar with extreme trepidation. I know, at this point, that even in the BEST case it will never measure up to even the cheapest, worst sugared chocolate. Hershey and Nestle are safe, because as we all now know, sugar has TEXTURE as well as taste, and the fact that Sucralose is chemically similar to Sucrose means very little, since it isn't used in the same quantities. Your tongue, your cheeks, the roof of your mouth... they won't feel it.

I rip open the crappy cellophane wrapper and nip in.

It's not as bad as the Chocolate Truffle.

It takes some discipline to say that, actually. It tastes like plastic. But its almondy-chocolatey plastic, so at least it will stay down.

I've got a bit of the Z-Carb Almond bar left from yesterday, so I compare. Again... its better. Not apples vs. oranges--its not in a league by itself--but it smells better, melts in your mouth a bit quicker and I think there may be more almonds.

This is the end of the road for me, but I'm following up on a few things some others have said. EJRothman has mentioned "Strive" Low-carb bars. A bit of the Google magic reveals that they DO indeed utilize Sucralose, but they also include Malitol (then again... so did one of the four I've tried over the past four days--the At Last Chocolate Truffle had it). Also, a Rice Krispie bar doesn't quite seem to be the same thing, but hey... I'm not going to knock it without trying it.

EJ also tells us about the NITRO-Tech Bars - Peanut Butter Chocolate Chip, and I have indeed seen them in any number of health/vitamin stores. It's really one of those meal replacement/performance snack/protein bar type of things, and if I'm ever on a crazy mission to compare those (Who knows? Maybe if I start working out and don't want steak ) I'll be sure to seek these out. coastcat mentioned Carb Solutions bars, and again... they seem to be more "Protein Bar" than "Snack" (and they also have both Malitol and a smidge of Sucralose). I think its MORE than fair to carry on further discussion in this thread about weighlifting/protein bars, but I won't be worrying much about them here and now.

Pure De-lite sounds like the "snack" niche. But its definitely Malitol city. It's either the first or second ingredient in every bar. So be assured that a certain percentage of its fans might have to support their Pure De-lite habit with Depends Protective Underwear and Super Absorbent Protective Underwear. Or not. Not everyone responds to Malitol that way.

As I sit here washing the taste of the last of this experiment out of mouth with some Dannon Spring Water (its bottled in Mirabel, Quebec, ay?), I still wonder if the Seratonin from the Z-Carb bar will make me sleepy, stop my hunger pangs, stop my OCD, or what? I want to know! I'm hoping for the hunger-stopping thing, since that Burger put me so off the diet.

My odyssey is over. My mock-chocolate, and The Days of Ass and Roses are behind me.

I wish peace, love and burgers... to you all.

Edited July 15, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[Jason Perlow]

I think you seriously need a woman, Jon.

[jhlurie]

I think you seriously need a woman, Jon.

Gee, thanks for the relevance and all.

[elyse]

Maybe a chocolate woman?

[Jason Perlow]

Chocolate woman, stay away from mee..eeeeeeeeeee

[nyfirepatrolchef]

I know EXACTLY what life is like sans chocolate. Been on this @#$%^& diet for life for five years....and the body is getting less and less tolerant of cheating.

Edited July 17, 2003 by nyfirepatrolchef (log)

[mags]

Okay, here's a low-carb chocolate bar to try - on the LC support boards I read, there is constant praise for Pure De-Lite bars as the best candy-like treat available. They are available in Caramel, Caramel Crisp, Caramel Nougat, Caramel Peanut Butter Bar with Peanuts, Caramel Pecan, Chocolate Mint, Dark Chocolate, Milk Chocolate, Milk Chocolate Orange, Milk Chocolate with Almonds, Milk Chocolate with Coconut, Milk Chocolate with Peanuts, and White Chocolate.

I've tried the Carb Solutions Taste Sensation bar in Chocolate Peanut Butter and Chocolate Toffee Hazelnut. The latter was edible but not exactly delicious, the former was truly hideous. It took hours before the aftertaste faded.

Pure De-Lite truffles are the way to go, IMO. Seriously, seriously good. Great texture, and a taste that -- to me at least -- is pretty much indistinguishible from upper-middle-class chocs. I'm a big fan of the espresso and orange flavors, but my pal likes the hazelnut and peanut butter. GNC sells'em by the piece (if I bought them by the box I would eat the box, probably including the cardboard).

For cooking, I use Choco-Love, an organic, sugar-sweetened chocolate made in Colorado. Their Strong Dark version has a particularly high amount of fiber (lotta cocoa beans), which brings the carb count down to very reasonable levels. It's not El Rey, but it's some majorly good chocolate and it makes a killer flourless fudge cake that even carb-happy friends have devoured.

FWIW, my information is that the lactitol that's used as a sweetener in the Hershey's sugar-free chocolates is particularly notable for its, ummm....bathroom effects. Maltitol (which is used in the Pure De-Lite truffles) seems to be less troublesome, at least in small (read: one or two pieces) doses. Best of all the sugar-alchohols is erythritol (best meaning fewest reported laxative problems and lowest blood-sugar impact), but while you can buy that straight, almost no processed chocs are being made with it at the moment. Works really well for making your own, though.

[elyse]

Costco is selling some of this stuff. I was sure I wouldn't forget which one...

I'm going to post a thread on baked goods for diabetics in P&B if anyone wants to pipe in. Please?

[Schielke]

At the store today I noticed a no sugar chocolate confection. Yamate Master Piece. It is advertised as having 2g net carbs. The candy is almonds and caramel coated in chocolate.

A quick look at the ingredients show: Maltitol, chocolate liquor, almonds, cocoa butter, milk fat, inulin, whey protein isolate, calcium caseinate, butter, sodium caseniate, soy lecithin, vanila, and cornstarch.

A disturbing message shows above the ingredients hidden my the flap on the wrapper.

Excessive consumption may have a laxative effect.

Ok, so I am going to eat this ticking time bomb and report back in a few minutes. Wish me luck!!!

Ben

[Schielke]

Ok, so it wasn't half bad. This is explained by the fact that of the total 70 calories, 60 of those are from fat.

There was a disturbing lack of sweetness that was not filled in by a nice bitter dark chocolate flavor that I was expecting. The chocolate was a bit waxy and the "caramel" somewhat flavorless. Overall though, if I had to stay away from sugar, this would be a good chocolate fix. But I wouldn't dare eat more than one due to the warning on the back. I think I am in for a bit of montezuma's revenge as it is.

[carbless]

Well from reading these comments I would like to ask you what you think is good chocolate? Because I have tried the Z-Carb bar and it's good especially for a no carb, no sugar, no laxative bar. How can you beat that pleasure for diabetics, atkin's dieters, and people who just don't feel guilty. Expecially when all the rest taste like death. I have done a taste test on all of the bars mention and personally none compare.

Now in terms of the chocolate aspect, it does use real chocolate and it's the first ingredent on the package which would, I assume, makes it taste better than the others. How do I know it's real chocolate, well Chocolate Liquor is the chocolate taste in every chocolate bar including gourmet chocolate and cocoa butter is what gives it the mouthy creamy feel, those are the only two ingredients that make up chocolate(not cocoa nibs like some chocolate companies like to boast about having which is really just cheap). White chocolate only uses cocoa butter that is why it's not the color of milk or dark chocolate. Splenda is used as a sugar replacement meaning it still tastes sweet, have you ever tried a diet hansen's soda? Erythirtol is also a natural sugar replacement. Inulin is a derivative of the chicory root so it's a natural fat or sugar replacement for a chocolate bar minus the nasty effects of maltitol, aka the laxative effect. So show me the fakeness? Sure if you don't like the peanut butter addition you can choose the almond flavor which I prefer and takes away all the "bad" oils. As for the At Last bar, it tries to do the same thing but once again the first ingredient isn't chocolate so it will taste that way. I mean ingredients do speak for themselves, almost none of the others can say that chocolate is their first ingredient.

Edited July 28, 2003 by carbless (log)

[jhlurie]

carbless, the Z Carb is indeed the best--I know everyone didn't agree with me, but I thought I was clear about my own view.

Still, the specific criticism was also on target: texture. The texture wasn't satisfying, even if the smell and to a degree the taste was. And if texture wasn't vital, we'd all be drinking our food.

[carbless]

Really? Wow I love the smooth texture but of course everyone has their own opinions. What part of the texture didn't you like?