La Colombe - what's the big deal?

[weinoo]

OK, so we were in Philadelphia yesterday for a show at the Pier last night, and we had a number of hours to kill so we figured we'd give the highly extolled La Colombe a try for maybe an espresso and to take home some beans (caveat - i'm a home roaster, and brew our coffee with a french press, drip or stovetop moka, depending on my mood - no room for a decent espresso setup in our 4th floor walk-up kitchen, but it's in the future plans!) to see just how good they are.

So, my wife and I both ordered double espressos, and...they ranked right up there with, oh wait, below, Starbucks. Poorly drawn, too much water, thin and basically insipid...this, after seeing a show on the Food Network about how much the two owners care, etc. etc. Well, how about teaching your multipierced and tatooed baristas (not that there's anything wrong with that) how to properly make a $3 espresso - after all, it's the only thing they have to do...oh, wait, they also have to sell you BEANS, or at least what I thought would be the BEANS that I asked for. Because when we got home and I unloaded my meager 1/2 pound from the (very nice) handle bag, it had been friggin' ground - without my knowledge, and, obviously, without asking me what type of grind I wanted!! Now that's a good coffee shop THAT REALLY KNOWS COFFEE AND CARES ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS.

So, to all those famous NYC chefs who only serve La Colombe in their restaurants, bite me. How about supporting some local roasters (oh, Oren's and Porto Rico come to mind), and don't kid yourself - my home roast is twice as good as La Colombe...and 1/3 of the price, to boot. (It's the little things that really piss me off.) Thanks, Tom, at Sweet Maria's!! - no affiliation.

[KatieLoeb]

weinoo:

Was this at the 19th Street/Rittenhouse Square location, or elsewhere? I'm just curious because there are only two La Colombe cafes, the one I've mentioned and one in Manayunk. There are, however, quite a few small independent coffee shops that brew and sell their coffee.

I've found that the quality of the cup of espresso/cappuccino/coffee there depends entirely on whom your barrista du jour is. Some of the staff pulls a great cup, and others are simply between their latest post adolescent crisis and next tattoo appointment What really surprises me about your story is the pre-ground coffee purchase. Now, THAT'S bad!

[weinoo]

Hi Katie,

Yes, it was the 19th St. location of La Colombe. And I certainly think that they must have some barristas there who know how to pull a shot - the gripe I have is that, just like in the restaurant biz, there's gotta be consistency - every barrista should be taught the correct way to pull a shot, each and every time. That comes from the top down. When I was cooking in a restaurant here in NYC (btw, a very short-lived career), I remember my chef telling his cooks that every time a specific dish came out of the kitchen, it had to be the same...that's what the customer wants, that was a great lesson.

As far as the ground coffee (when I wanted BEANS) incident goes, well, I guess I learned another of life's lesson, and that's to check your purchase before you leave! But I don't have to worry about La Colombe, because I doubt we'll be patronizing them again.

As an aside, we're having a cup of the pre-ground coffee right now, and it ain't that good!

[Holly Moore]

Back when I had my restaurant, we received a great review from Elaine Tait, then critic for the Philadelphia Inquirer. It was interesting to observe the attitude of the customers coming in because of the review.

For some we could do know wrong. Elaine liked us and therefore they liked us. For others it was just the opposite. They came in with a chip on their shoulder and ordered exactly what Elaine ordered. Then they spent the meal picking apart each dish, "How could Elaine Tait say this was so good." It would have spoiled their evening out if they had actually enjoyed their dinner.

Not sure why your posting reminded me of this human trait, but it did.

That said, I'm a semi regular at La Colombe and have never had espresso as you describe. I'm not questioning your experience, just suggesting it was a fluke. Probably as Katie described.

La Colombe indeed roasts an excellent espresso bean, worthy of Daniel and the other New York restaurants.

[weinoo]

Sorry, Holly, I don't think I "picked apart" the espresso - it just wasn't that good. And what I paid for and took home was simply not what I ordered.

If you go into a restaurant and order steak and they bring you fish, are you happy?

Just the facts.

[KatieLoeb]

Yes, it was the 19th St. location of La Colombe.  And I certainly think that they must have some barristas there who know how to pull a shot - the gripe I have is that, just like in the restaurant biz, there's gotta be consistency - every barrista should be taught the correct way to pull a shot, each and every time.  That comes from the top down. When I was cooking in a restaurant here in NYC (btw, a very short-lived career), I remember my chef telling his cooks that every time a specific dish came out of the kitchen, it had to be the same...that's what the customer wants, that was a great lesson.

Mitch:

There definitely are some there that pull a great shot. However, I completely agree with your points about the training. One: Shit flows downhill. The level of care/customer service level is set at the top of the corporation. Absolutely. Two: Consistency is crucial. A valid point well taken. My problem is that when you're paying some part time kid $6.00/hour, whether you train them or not, you get what you pay for. It's the same problem with a lot of the "I'm-not-really-a-waitress/waiter" types. If people don't think of their job as what they "really" do, or simply as a means of getting through school or whatever, you'll never get top notch service, no matter what industry you're discussing.

As for the ground coffee issue, one can only hope that perhaps your order got confused with someone else in line that ordered their pound of beans ground. It's a shame you still don't like the coffee though. Certainly I've found that when I make it myself, their roast is as good as any I've had.

[weinoo]

Katie,

Agree about the $6/hour thing - it's unfortunate that it seems as if we've become a society where pride of ownership of the job you're doing is good enough, no matter what you're making. But that's a whole other topic, I guess. I do remember as a high schooler deli clerk back in the 60's, making minimum wage, I still gave a shit about my customers!

As far as the ground coffee issue, I don't think there was anyone else on line.

And their coffee's definitely not as bad as charbucks, just not as good as my own.

[R Washburn]

IMHO, the style of coffee at La Colombe seems to appeal to the palate's of French Chefs. That doesn't mean it will necesarily please yours, just because Jean-Marie Lacroix, Alain Ducasse, Jeans-Georges Vongerichten and Daniel Boulud all use it.

Personally, I found it to be an aquired taste.

[menton1]

I also found La Colombe to be way below expectations. Its reputation around Philly makes you think that you will meet El Exigente at one of the tables there.

I have regularly found Metropolitan Bakery to have better coffee and a better ambience than La Colombe.....(Great bread and pastry too).

[tscarmichael]

Dear Weinoo,

Perhaps we can offer something here... that being JP and myself, the owners of La Colombe. First, we are very sorry to hear that you had a bad coffee experience. I was indeed shocked to hear about the quality of your espresso, particularly when I am familiar with everyone behind the bar and take great personal interest in his or her training. Also, I can't help but notice that your comments imply that we some how do not care, but I assure you, simply judging from our devotion and the twists in my stomach from your comments, this cannot be further from the truth.

Some facts:

Barristas: A La Colombe barrister is a highly trained professional not paid $6 per hour. A full time barrista earns $40,000 per year, not including 401K and health benefits. In addition, as for your comment concerning tattoos and piercing, no La Colombe barrista has a visible tattoo or a piercing. This left me confused.

Training: I expect every drink that passes over our bar to be perfect, and I train the barristas with this in mind. Our program is extensive, is not a quickie video, but days and weeks spent with me in theory, practice and performance. No other coffee company goes as far we do. Let me say here also, that our newest rookie has been with us three years, with the majority have 7 years plus experience behind our bar.

Grinding: We recommend whole bean coffee, and are not in the practice of "random grinding". I am left thinking that a bag mix up occurred, and there is a client out there wondering why we did not grind his/her coffee. Please forward me your address and I will gladly make this up to you, plus some.

[Holly Moore]

Greetings tscarmichael, and welcome to eGullet.

Before anything else is said, thanks for going non-smoking. La Colombe is a far more enjoyable experience.

Thanks also for speaking to Weinoo's concern. I hope Weinoo takes you up on the offer to replace the ground beans with whole.

Meantime there's a forum on non-alcoholic beverages you may not have found. Some interesting coffee and espresso conversations going on here. eGullet Non-Alcoholic Beverages Forum

[Rich Pawlak]

I too am VERY glad that La Colombe went non-smoking, so much nice to enjoy that fabulous coffee. It's also what I grind at home when at all possible (Corsica blend), and it never fails to make my morning, or pick me up when I stop by when I'm anywhere near 19th St.

[Greg Salisbury]

Hey, Todd, thanks for responding to Weinoo (BTW, not allowed on Chowhound, as I discovered the hard way). As a customer both retail and wholesale, I have found that nothing matches your product, either at 19th St. or in Rx. Now that I know how much your baristas make, your prices are a lot more understandable. And Weinoo, you've piqued my interest. When do we get to sample your wares?

[davidbdesilva]

La Colombe is the best, most consistent coffee I've ever had. I won't even mention any others by name because they don't belong in the same sentence with La Colmbe. I have enjoyed the Corsica, Nizza, and Phocea belnds and all are simply awesome in a French press! And BTW, I have never thought that La Colombe was expensive or overpriced, seeing what other "coffee makers" charge for their crap. Keep up the great work and the great product.

[tscarmichael]

David

Thank you for the kind words.

And to everyone, if you ever receive a below par coffee at La Colombe, write me about it, and let me make it up to you.

TSCarmichael@aol.com

Todd

[Lisa1349]

My 2 cents

I'm kind of new to Philly, and new to working at DiBruno Bros (plug) in Rittenhouse SQ. I've had La Colombe coffee served at La Cigale 2 doors away, and we sell a heck of a lot of it in the best cheese shop in the city. I too, had to find out what the hype was about, I bought a pound of Phocea. When I opened it and placed it near my Staurbucks super dark roast special, the Starbucks beans looked like charcoal. This carries over into flavor of course, Starbucks seeming like thick sludge (there is something to be said for sludge on 3 hrs sleep) and La Colombe the perfect wine with dinner. There are fresh nuances and bouquet and pleasant finish, no need for after coffee breath mints there.

I've been increasing the bean amount for my daily brew but it still isn't getting as strong as I like (am used to?). How does the Corsica compare to Phocea? What are the 19th st shop hours?

Lisa

[R Washburn]

I think the level of roasting goes Corsica>Phocea>Nizza.

[davidbdesilva]

Try the Corsica and Nizza, they are stronger (and I believe better) than the Phocea coffee. Corsica in a French press is awesome IMHO and Nizza smooth and medium bodied. I like both better than Phocea, though Phocea isn't bad at all. If it's strength you want go with the Corsica, awesome coffee. In my opinion, there really is no comparison between Le Colombe and Starbucks, one is premium coffee and one is a bitter pretender, but just my opinion.

[phaelon56]

herbacidal (Herb) pointed me to this thread and I'm very glad to have a chance to see the perspectives offered here. I'm especially pleased to see the sensible and informative post from La Coulombe's owners.

I have yet to try an espresso in one of their cafes as I'm rarely in the Philly area but intend to do so on my next visit. Like Mitch, I'm a home roaster and rarely buy roasetd beans when I'm out somewhere but if I happen across a local roaster on my travels, I always try to buy a half pound or so to take home.

Consistency does seem to be the big bug-a-boo of food and beverage businesses in general but i think it's especially critical in espresso. I'm considering going into the business myself in about two years - the more folks who are out there oiffering truly good product, the more the public will come to appreciate what good espresso really can be (and recognize that it's tough to find).

[Holly Moore]

I'm at La Colombe at least once a week. Often more. Have found their espresso to be totally consistent.

Will admit that I get a triple latte as opposed to pure espresso, so I'm may be missing nuances a home roaster / purist who opts for straight espresso might detect.

[Pan]

I hope to see a followup from Weinoo where he describes what the replacement coffee tasted like. As simply an observer from afar (New York) who's unfamiliar with Philadelphia places but was curious enough to read this thread, I commend the ownership of La Colombe for their response to criticism here.

[Steve Klc]

"the style of coffee at La Colombe seems to appeal to the palate's of French Chefs. That doesn't mean it will necesarily please yours, just because Jean-Marie Lacroix, Alain Ducasse, Jeans-Georges Vongerichten and Daniel Boulud all use it"

I agree, I'd also add at least one Spanish chef approves of La Colombe as well. Jose Andres uses the Nizza blend in all of his restaurants at present. And I use it to flavor my "Turkish Coffee Chocolate" dessert at Zaytinya. That said, I too have had some great espresso beverages at Metropolitan Bakery.

There are always going to be customer service missteps, I wish all were handled with Todd's approach.

Owen, would you consider sharing the run-up toward your business start in a thread on eG? Just a thought.

[corvus]

I love the decaf coffee at La Colombe.

Unlike other coffee places I've been to, the decaf is brewed on the spot, not served from an urn like even their regular coffee is. Often the barista brews it using two portafilter handles and this makes the coffee twice as good in half the time. It comes out with a nice layer of crema on top, and I enjoy a short moment of bliss. At $1.50 (prices went up $.25 this summer!), it's a coffee bargain.

But sometimes they only use one handle to brew, and I'm not impressed.

[Holly Moore]

La Colombe is far more enjoyable since the smoking ban. With the arrival of winter, one more ban is called for.

Philadelphia's Artic cold spell has driven at the less hearty bike messengers from their usually corner hangout at 18th and Walnut to the warmth of La Colombe's table area. With the messengers come their walkie-talkies. Yesterday four messengers, their walkie-talkie's ablare with a jumble of static and screeching voices, were sitting next to me. Bedlam. Took me an extra 10 minutes to complete the Times crossword.

Yesterday also, one of the morning baristas prepared a cappucino by pouring a portion of the steamed milk down a side of the cup, rotating it 90 degrees, pouring some more steamed milk and so on until a complete trip around the cup. The result a stylistic "X" of espresso decorating the white foam. Bravo.